Thought sure I was going to get a Black Widow...

[Adk.IBO]

I went to Syracuse to install a stairlift  at my mother's and coordinated the trip with the Syracuse Gun Show. I was hoping to see a BW and puchase one. A couple of days before the show I thought I'd call around to see what was avilable at local gun shops, not much luck. I found a new LGS (yellow pages) in a neighborhood I was very familiar with and decided to drive by even though they didn't have a BW. They never even mentioned having any NAA firearms. So I wandered in and they had 3! First time I ever laid eyes on one. I really liked the Wasp they had but thought I should give the show a chance to see a BW.  To make a long story short I went back the next morning and purchased the Wasp. I couldn't take it with me because I need to get it on my permit first and the only way to do that is to go to my county seat, 225 miles from the LGS where I bought it, return with the gun listed on my permit, then they can legally let me take it. I went to the gun show, a very large show, and all they had there were 3 NAA guns. No Wasp, no BW, no Sidewinder, just an Earl, a Sheriff and a 22LR. Finally after scouring the place I was able to find some 22mag ammo so I can shoot when I get it home. The LGS had not one box. I think I'll be well pleased with the Wasp. 

Stay safe, John

[Goatpacker]

I'd move from that state. What is up with states like that? Do they not understand that we as US Citizens have rights that were given to us and that many have died to keep them for all? If I want a gun here where I live I walk in give them what I think it is worth and walk out. If the majority of the people in that state want to live that way then move out and let them have it. If the rest of us think the land is worth having then we will kick their A and take it back.

Sorry to go off but I just went back and erased about 20'mins worth of typing on how I really feel about this kind of thing. The older I get the harder it is for me to understand!

[Goatpacker]

The 2nd Admendment is everyone's permit!!!! Period...

[Classanr]

But the man is making the effort to get through all the blasted hoops.  Most people (over 90% of NY) just give up (or go illegal).  Adk.IBO might have no option but to remain in NY - so he's making the effort to arm himself with what he really likes, despite the flaming hoops.

Way to go, John!

[Adk.IBO]

As odd as this may sound I wasn't really complaining. My mother bought her first pistol in 1966 when I was just knee high to a grasshopper and had to get her permit here then. It just is what it is. The internet has brought to light for me how insanely wrong it's been, was that my doing?  Move? Easy to say. I was kinda hoping for a congrats or two on the purchase with a couple of you're gonna love its! I'm proud to be a permit carrying gun owner. That means I've made it this far without being a felon . Never been arrested. When I meet other permit carrying handgun owners there's almost automatically a smidgeon higher level of trust. They's generally good peeps! Kinda like the helmet law, I believe in riding with a helmet but don't care for the law, does it stop me from riding? Lived in AZ for 4 years, no helmet law , no permit laws. Did I ride w/o a helmet? Very little. Did that change the way I dealt with firearms? Very little. Just like my guns, try to come take my motorcycle. I'll die for the right, and I'll stay out of trouble for the right. A little inconvenient, but I've got a brother in law who can never own a firearm again. He's in IL. and used to love to hunt. Should he own a firearm? Probably not. Would he if he could? Definitely yes. Would that be a good thing? Probably not. All alcohol related. About a year ago I got my out of state Utah CC permit, added 32 states to my right to carry with one 4 hour class! A little inconvenient? Maybe, but it's the law. It also gave me some instruction I never had and kinda led me to NAA minis, in a round about way. It's all good, as long as we teach our up and coming generations to do their best to correct the stupid mistakes our's and our parent's generations have made. These laws are not irreversible. "Forgive them...for they know not what they do" as he hung from the cross.

Stay safe, John


Move you say? And give them what they want- less resistance? I say move to New York and help us with the fight! We need more right thinkin' people, not less! Upstate NY, no major earthquakes, no tornados, no hurricanes, no crowds, never seen much in the way of poisonous critters, 4 seasons, what's not to like? A couple of inconvenient laws with hope for change? Works for me!

[nastruck]

You go Adk, your going to love that little wasp thing.
The biggest problem with buying a mini is your going to buy another one and then probably another one!!!!
Enjoy your wasp!!!!   

[Goatpacker]

You are right Adk and I'm sorry for the rant. I guess it is just because I did not realize that people in some states have to go through a lot to be able to own a gun. Yes I knew about the laws but hearing from actual people makes it seem more real for me. It really hit home when I was in illinois one day in Cabelas doing some shopping. I went to the gun counter and asked the clerk to see something.  He asked if I had a drivers license, never had to show my drivers license just to look at a gun before but I gave it to him. He gave it back and said I could not touch any of their guns because I was from another state. I just left there feeling as if I had done something wrong.

Enjoy the wasp, and keep looking for the widow. You will find a use for both.

[OV-1D]

 NOT EVEN TOUCH ? ? ?  I would never ,ever buy anything from that outfit even it was the last store in the last shopping center on the last day before damnation . That is so much bullshi* , like you said makes one feel pretty dam lonesome . SCREW THEM !!!! Policy or no policy , dam ........... that pisses me off . Just wondering does your permit cover that state ?

[Classanr]

NOT EVEN TOUCH ? ? ?  I would never ,ever buy anything from that outfit even it was the last store in the last shopping center on the last day before damnation . That is so much bullshi* , like you said makes one feel pretty dam lonesome . SCREW THEM !!!! Policy or no policy , dam ........... that pisses me off . Just wondering does your permit cover that state ?

Please understand, it is not a "store" thing, it is a "state" thing.  In MA, one must present the MA-issued permit to touch even a box of reloading bullets.  I cross the border to NH, go to the same brand-name store, and don't have to present anything (except ID to fill out the Fed form for firearm instant check if I wish to make the purchase of a firearm).

Some governments think they can dissuade us with a heap-o-paperwork, a left-handed way of banning guns.  Other governments say "Oh, it's your right, so go ahead."

This is the reason I applauded Adk.IBO for being willing to jump through all the danged hoops.

[TwoGunJayne]

Best of luck to everyone. "...shall not be infringed" is something I care about.

I hate that slippery slope that the Infringers love to build and make bigger. First they start with the "thin end of the wedge," next thing you know it's a 5 day waiting period to look at a catalog or something.

[OV-1D]

  All these stores should be fighting these little minded state government policies with everything they have and they have plenty for force these states to change policy . Big employers with big payrolls have all the power they need and should use it in favor of the customers no matter where they reside , these little pee ons in state government know very well money is money in the coffers no matter who's pocket it comes from . JERKS , we need another civil war to straighten all this crap out AGAIN being this time we take up arms against ALL state and federal officials from the lowly county commissioner to the so-called commander in chief , that tribal NITWIT . " I've taken all I can stand and I can't stand NO MORE " .  Until all the mealy mouthed people come together nothing will change , a for instance is here were fighting NOT to have county water run and paid for by residents , took up a petition to stop and was well received by residents ,called all about 80+ residents the day before the meeting with commissioners to remind them to be there again well received with resounding HECK YES we'll be there with bells on , so to say ,well these mealy mouthed fools showed their willingness with 8 ,yes 8 of us to complain against city hall . This water is over a ten year span around 8 thousand dollars just to run it by your property , NOT CONNECTED that's another almost 2 grand plus monthly billings from then on . Well my point is you guessed it there will be NO CHANGE in government policies until an asteroid blasts us into being caveman again . NO BALLS IN OUR SOCIETY ANYMORE just a bunch of wannbe's . Thanks for the rant time ," GOD SAVE THE REPUBLIC " and GOD BLESS US LONELY PEOPLE  .

[Classanr]

John's post is taking on unintended consequences, but we can bring it back around to praise for his purchase.

In some (most?) states, gun owners are an oppressed minority.
In those states, a voting majority sees no harm done in restricting John from getting whatever he wants.  They do not want a gun until they need it - too little, too late, but they also are not history buffs, so the argument is lost on them.  Instead, they vote for "hope" and "change" and let it go at that.

In John's state, slowly the manufacturers who care, and people who are fed up with the "pee-ons" in government but don't want to fight, are retreating to other states.

This has only redoubled the efforts of the gun grabbers.
Because John's platoon is shrinking, his battle is getting fiercer.

That is the wrong tactic for fighting social injustice.
Were Martin Luther King (a gun owner) today make a call for freedom fighters to drop what they are doing and move to NY for protracted gun-rights sit-ins, where people by the hundred will be hauled off to jail...
would you respond to the call?

Action, not anger, resolves problems.
John is a man of action at the battlefront.
And now he's armed with NAA product and 22WMR ammo.

Way to go, John!

[Dinadan]

Adk.IBO - Congrats on you new Mini. The Wasp is essentially the same as the Magnum Mini, and I really like my Magnum Mini. Is yours the 1 1/8" barrel or the 1 5/8" barrel? Conversion model? In any case we need photos when you get it home!

Regarding your state of residence, I know that it is a lot easier to say a person should move than to actually move. You mentioned doing some work to help your mother. I have remained in my home state, Alabama, all my life because my extended family was here in this county, and once I got married my wife's as well. I bet we share one thing in common - If I were to move to another state your state would be low on my list, and I bet mine would be low on yours!

[Adk.IBO]

Thanks folks. When I went down to the County Courthouse to ammend my permit this morning it was quick and painless (except for the additional 100 miles on my truck). $3.00 was the cost. I had an application sent to me for my wife to get a permit about a month ago in the event that something happened to me she wouldn't lose my guns, so I asked how long permits are taking these days and I was told about a year give or take maybe a month due to all of the applications. I've had mine for 21 years. I think it was a couple of months back then. There's only one reason to acquire a pistol permit so I have to assume with the advent of the Safe Act and other anti gun possibilities quite a few New Yorkers have decided to get off the fence. I also picked up a brochure about when a spouse dies with pistols on a permit and it says clearly the non permit carrying survivor cannot possess pistols owned by the deceased pistol owner, however an FFL can hold the guns up to 2 years while the permit is processed. I was happy to read that. I'd like my grandson to have my revolvers some day and my wife knows that. So it's official, my Wasp is mine, just gotta go get it.

Stay safe, John


Dinadin, mine is 1-5/8", 22 mag only for now. That could change if I find I or my wife wants to shoot it alot. They are so scarce around here I decided to grab this one while I could. I've been to 40 out of 50 states and Alabama is one I have not visited, it was supposed to happen this summer, Barber Motorsport Complex, but my riding buddy bailed on me. The jury is still out on Alabama.

[Dinadan]

Dinadin, mine is 1-5/8", 22 mag only for now. That could change if I find I or my wife wants to shoot it alot. They are so scarce around here I decided to grab this one while I could. I've been to 40 out of 50 states and Alabama is one I have not visited, it was supposed to happen this summer, Barber Motorsport Complex, but my riding buddy bailed on me. The jury is still out on Alabama.

My Mini Magnum is also 1 5/8". It is a fun gun to shoot. I like shooting LR more than mags, but right now both kinds of ammo are pretty scarce around here. Alabama is actually a pretty good state in a lot of ways. It is just that we, like New York, are stereotyped, though in opposite ways. If you do come this way try to do it in the fall, winter, or spring, especially if you are biking. Summer can be a bit overly warm.

[Adk.IBO]

Headed to Syracuse to pick up my new Wasp in a few hours when it warms up a bit. The motorcycle gets way better fuel mileage . Easter with Mom as my wife is with her mom out west while she recoups from major emergency surgery. No computer access til I get home. Happy Easter and stay safe, John

[JES14352]

The Wasp just might be my next gun , very nice looking. Enjoy your new gun.... P.S. There is nothing wrong with owning more than one. Keep your eyes open , BW are not that hard to find on line if you have a little patiences......

[dk]

 The blackwidow will be worth the weight!

[223fan]

I'm new to naa's myself but already find myself wanting another one.I have the mini mag but I'm really wanting a black widow now. I'm sure you'll love it mine goes everywhere with me.

[Goatpacker]

I'm ready to see a pic of your new Wasp!

[RogueTS1]

223fan has caught the disease as most if not all do. Just one will never do. I see many more Minis in your future.

[Adk.IBO]

I would love to show off the new Wasp, but my wife is in Illinois with the Ipad and her digital camera. My cell phone is archaic so no pics till she gets home. I made a functional pocket holster, ain't pretty but it works and conceals well. Yesterday I fired 35 rounds through it, 5 of my carry loads- Hornady Critical Defense, 5 CCI shotshells, and 25 Winchester magnum jacketed hollow point. Today I fired 10 CCI maxi mag. 11 of the Winchesters split the side of the casings, I've never seen that before. Has anybody else seen this happen? Can damage be done when it does? Most distances were 7 yards at paper plates with 2" bullseyes drawn on them. I always hit the paper plate and began to hit bullseyes at the end ( especially with the shotshells ). It will take some practice for me to get really good with this. I will do some practice off a bench to take away my movements to figure out the sight picture better. I call it my Rule#1/ BUG- have a gun/ back up gun. Now that I have empty casings I can dry fire quite a bit, rotating them for multiple uses. This thing carries EXTREMELY well! No regrets so far. We dug one of the CCI maxi mags out of the wet sand backstop to see what it looked like. It expanded to 10mm, I won't be volunteering to get in it's way anytime soon!

Stay safe, John

[TwoGunJayne]

1. My first BW holster was home made... from cardboard because I just couldn't wait for the mail to get here.

2. Side split casings can indicate a bad ammo run or a chamber issue. Mike the unfired casings, see if they're undersized. I've split casings by accidentally running .22 LR through a mag chamber. I had a particularly bad run of Remy Tbolt that would split casings in 3 guns before I threw away the remainder. It miked undersized. I was sad. (This was before the ammo shortage, btw.)

Try the ammo in another gun, see if it does it.

[Dinadan]

Adk.IBO - I have never had any ammo split the casing in my Minis. I would shoot some more CCI or Hornady (if you have it) and if it works okay, maybe the Winchester is just a bad run. 

[Goatpacker]

I just wish I could find the Hornady CD. Been looking for a year now and never seen a box!

[TwoGunJayne]

I gave up on finding Gold Dots or Hornady Critical Defence at LGS.

That stuff is mail order only around here.

As far as minis, Hornady CD for the 4"+ barrels, Gold Dot for everything else... unless you like penetration through bone.

There really is something to be said for a round of CCI Maxi-Mag FMJ. It penetrates too far and breaks the FBI bare gelatin test protocol. Sounds like a "spine round."

[Goatpacker]

I have a few hundred gold dots just would like to shoot some Crit Def.

[Adk.IBO]

I got my Hornady CD and the Winchsters at the Syracuse gun show. The CCI's were given to me by a friend. Will shooting the remaining 25 from the box of Winchesters be a safety issue for me or the gun? The splitting of the casings has been isolated to this box of ammo, but since 22mag is so hard to get I'd like to shoot it up for practice. I really like this gun for CC but can probably see a CVang in it's future. I will measure all loads before shooting again. What would be an unacceptable difference in size? I have a slide caliper but I don't think that would be accurate enough. I can borrow a micrometer. Thanks for the input folks.

Stay safe, John

[TwoGunJayne]

The difference between .22 lr and mag could be enough to cause it, or it could be worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_long_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire

.242 vs .226.

[heyjoe]

in my opinion both ADK and Goatpackers expressed opinions and feelings on jumping through the hoops that are presented in order to ccw or buy a gun in new york  are correct and necessary.  Living here, i know what ADK is talking about. it becomes just something you have to do and get used to in order to carry or buy a gun.  there are many of us here contributing to the fight against the unconstitutional may issue gun permits as well as the Safe Act. For many people moving isnt a great or easy option as far as having family, employment (especially in this economy), friends here. Its a balancing act of competing interests. The supreme court has fallen down on the job also by not having certified any of the shall issue cases that have reached it so far.
Goatpacker is also correct and his opinions and feelings are vital to us. The outrage he expresses helps us to keep in mind how wrong the system we have here is and how people who do not live under it view it, and how it needs to change and how we need to help that change along.  It also helps to open the eyes of and educate people here who are so used to the system that they dont really think about it.

I liked Alabama. From my travels I feel that i could live anywhere in the United States and be happy because they all have different things to offer. You may not want me in your state but im sure i would do well wherever i wound up.             

[TwoGunJayne]

in my opinion both ADK and Goatpackers expressed opinions and feelings on jumping through the hoops that are presented in order to ccw or buy a gun in new york  are correct and necessary.  Living here, i know what ADK is talking about. it becomes just something you have to do and get used to in order to carry or buy a gun.

I think the antis call that "boiling the frog slowly." The pro-2nd people call it the "thin end of the wedge."

We used to be able to just mail order machine guns. I need a time machine because I think they'd all fall under C&R license now.

[heyjoe]

  .  Until all the mealy mouthed people come together nothing will change , a for instance is here were fighting NOT to have county water run and paid for by residents , took up a petition to stop and was well received by residents ,called all about 80+ residents the day before the meeting with commissioners to remind them to be there again well received with resounding HECK YES we'll be there with bells on , so to say ,well these mealy mouthed fools showed their willingness with 8 ,yes 8 of us to complain against city hall . This water is over a ten year span around 8 thousand dollars just to run it by your property , NOT CONNECTED that's another almost 2 grand plus monthly billings from then on . Well my point is you guessed it there will be NO CHANGE in government policies until an asteroid blasts us into being caveman again . NO BALLS IN OUR SOCIETY ANYMORE just a bunch of wannbe's . Thanks for the rant time ," GOD SAVE THE REPUBLIC " and GOD BLESS US LONELY PEOPLE  .

when they complain tell them to shut the heck up. very frustrating that only 10% of those saying they would go to a meeting that is going to decide something that will be detrimental to them for the rest of their time living there bothered to show up. now when you are affected you will never look at these neighbors in the same light. 8 people showing up to try to stop the water lines is pathetic. meanwhile the other side is paying these same politicians under the table without a doubt.  the current apathy level of americans is astounding

[dk]

Amen Joe! Absolute truth!

[OV-1D]

 Heres another pip Joe this last meeting has finalized the water to go ahead with more people that want it this time , maybe 6 to our five , and when they got up to say their peace they told the commissioners how such a great job they are doing with them ,commissioners , for the first time in county history they are in the red at the tune of 90 million dollars and few ideas of how to retrieve it back , talk about apathy . These are grown adults saying this trash , I just can't figure these people out am I missing something . This is our world and what it's become and I truly believe we will never see the good ways that they were . Rome here we come . Don't forget to buckle up . 

[Dinadan]

This is our world and what it's become and I truly believe we will never see the good ways that they were . Rome here we come . Don't forget to buckle up . 

When my daughter was young we used to play a game called Jenga where you built a tower out of wood blocks. You have to keep removing non essential blocks and using them to build higher, until the tower comes crashing down. I often think that our society, the developed world, is just like that game. We keep making economic systems and governing systems more complex, more interdependent, and more precarious all the time. Eventually some miscalculation, or just clumsiness, will probably bring our society to its knees. At that point all bets are off as to what happens.

One thing about the Roman Republic. Those folks did realize that sometimes things just get messed up, and that nothing less than a leader with dictatorial power could fix things. So they did sometimes appoint a dictator, and strangely enough, to modern minds, the appointed dictators surrendered their power when their term was over.