Mini Master or 1860 Earl 3" and 4"

[mouselvr]

Hello everyone - sorry, been a while since my last postings.  I am looking at getting my next NAA and am considering three - a Mini Master 4" or an 1860 3" or 4".  I'm assuming that the Mini Master 4" and Earl 4" balance about the same in the hand?  To those that have fired all of the above, do you feel the 3" 1860 balances better over the 4" models?  Do the rubber grips of the Mini Master feel better to you over the boot grips of the 1860's?  I'm looking for a bit larger carry option over the 1 5/8" mini mag that I currently have.  Thanks.

[TwoGunJayne]

They feel... different.

The MM 4" feels more muzzle-heavy (as it should.)

The Earl 4" feels like it can whip around a bit faster.

I actually like the grips on both of them. I think the Earl 4" is more suited to a CCW, while the MM is more of a target pistol... depending on what sights you have installed. Fixed is better for CC, the adjustables are WAY better for hitting paper or critters. The adjustables are extremely large and high visibility.

Two different tools, sort of two different jobs.

Haven't had the chance to get personal with a 3" Earl yet. I figure it will have a bit less muzzle weight and feel handier than the 4", but I've never felt either of these 4" weapons are uncomfortable. Then again, I really like the SIX INCH NAA Hogleg. It's on my short-list of favorite guns. I don't think you can go really wrong with any of these pistols.

[mouselvr]

Thanks for the info and comparisons, TGJ!

[TwoGunJayne]

Anytime, friend. Glad if I can help. Looks like I managed to not rant or ramble this time! Sweet! 

Going 4" is a great way to up the FPE. Standard velocity ammo LR from a MM or 4" Earl can be hotter than .22 mag from a Pug.

As always, shot placement is 99.9% of it. Some say even as low as 40 fpe can be fatal to the right spot.

[Classanr]

Anytime, friend. Glad if I can help. Looks like I managed to not rant or ramble this time! Sweet! 

Going 4" is a great way to up the FPE. Standard velocity ammo from a MM or 4" Earl is hotter than .22 mag from a Pug.

As always, shot placement is 99.9% of it. Some say even as low as 40 fpe can be fatal to the right spot.

To support TGJ's statement:

Officially, the US Military says 55fpe is the starting point for "A soldier is sure to die if hit in a vital zone".  They picked that number because *some* people survived lesser fpe in vital zones.

In the UK, 12fpe is the legal max for airguns, but plenty of UK airgunners take small game with a "mere" 12fpe.

[TwoGunJayne]

The 40 fpe I've quoted before wasn't actually for guns, but slingshots.

Slingshot experts selected the (roughly) 40 fpe number I quoted for several reasons.

Typically, it's talking about 18mm+ lead or steel balls with very high momentum, like a freight train.
Usually, a slingshot is about retained energy to the target... not a super high speed slap, in fact well under 600 fps.

About 300 fpe is used to take very large game with large caliber air guns... firing really heavy bullets at less than 1000 feet per second. They get pretty good penetration, as well.

Momentum properties really change the game. Back in the old black powder rifle days, they could only increase the power by increasing projectile weight. New powders enabled new tricks, and the small fast bullet became preferable. It's why the supermagnums were easily blasting 400+ grains of bullet.

On-target effects seem to care more about placement and projectile properties than anything else. Squaring a target properly with a round seems to matter more than advertising.

[Classanr]

.... Squaring a target properly with a round seems to matter more than advertising.

Yeah, but,

  where's the money in that, eh?

Heard at Honest Joe's Gun Store Going Out Of Business Sale:
"No, actually sir you need to spend time practicing your aim, not spend money in my store."

[TwoGunJayne]

.... Squaring a target properly with a round seems to matter more than advertising.

Yeah, but,

  where's the money in that, eh?

Heard at Honest Joe's Gun Store Going Out Of Business Sale:
"No, actually sir you need to spend time practicing your aim, not spend money in my store."

That's funny, but sad and true.

There's something more to a quality shop operation than the bottom line, but the big franchises don't seem to get that. I guess it's the dollar-value reinforcement for the typical "gun shop guys" acting the way they do.

Building customer trust and confidence isn't something the big store chains seem to care about, very much like my "day job." People call because we're human and they don't get a machine on the first ring.

[Kevin55]

It saddens me to think it is cheaper to shoot quarters with my slingshot, than shoot my 45.  On the upside, if I think of each bullet as a quarter, I try to make each shot count.

When asked what $300 addition to a motorcycle would make the best improvement, tow old timers said, "gasoline".   Go ride off $300 of gas and your bike will go faster.

People often start gun collections thinking a different gun will make them a better shot.  Practice with a decent gun will make you a better shot.  I watched a guy with his fathers 38.  He just shot untils the bullseye was gone.  I asked it he wanted a new target.  He said no, as long as bullets don't hit the paper, I don't care.  My target looked like shotgun practice.

[TwoGunJayne]

It saddens me to think it is cheaper to shoot quarters with my slingshot, than shoot my 45.  On the upside, if I think of each bullet as a quarter, I try to make each shot count.

I know what you mean. On the bright side, dimes fit in a 12 gauge cylinder bore with a teflon sleeve (Ballistic Products carries them) and 10 gauge chambers pennies. This is probably a good way to screw up your barrel, even with the teflon sleeve.

Makes you want a 10 gauge, right?

What I want to know is what gun (or cannon) chambers quarters??

Whatever it is that we do, we need to work on tightening our fast groups at less than 21 feet to be competent with our minis. Tighter, faster, nothing else matters... well... paying attention to one's surroundings actually trumps that, but you know what I mean!

[Kentucky Kevin]

/quote]

Whatever it is that we do, we need to work on tightening our fast groups at less than 21 feet to be competent with our minis. Tighter, faster, nothing else matters... well... paying attention to one's surroundings actually trumps that, but you know what I mean!

I believe that situational awareness is job one, the family needs time to deploy the rifles from back packs

[Uncle_Lee]

Hello everyone - sorry, been a while since my last postings.  I am looking at getting my next NAA and am considering three - a Mini Master 4" or an 1860 3" or 4".  I'm assuming that the Mini Master 4" and Earl 4" balance about the same in the hand?  To those that have fired all of the above, do you feel the 3" 1860 balances better over the 4" models?  Do the rubber grips of the Mini Master feel better to you over the boot grips of the 1860's?  I'm looking for a bit larger carry option over the 1 5/8" mini mag that I currently have.  Thanks.

Buy a pair of each.
Take them out and shoot them.
That way you will know for sure the answers to your questions and you will have a good start to a mini collection.

[mouselvr]

Thanks for the replies everyone!  So, I'm guessing that the 6" Hogleg with its longer barrel would increase the FPE all the better.  I admit to really liking the looks of the Hogleg (I'm a Buntline fan) - too bad it would be more difficult to conceal.  Maybe an IWB holster?  I was originally thinking the 4" might be about the max size for pocket carry (which is the method of carry I was looking for) but if the 6" would carry nicely IWB I may have to reconsider my options

[TwoGunJayne]

I suppose it depends on your "personal fit."

I feel the 4" Earl is about the perfect size for IWB front, but that's me. Your carry may vary.

I can carry the Hogleg IWB front, but that extra 2" of barrel breaks the envelope slightly... for me, at least.

I think the Hogleg offers the best terminal performance, but to compromise with size is understandable. A 6" .22 mag is starting to get really fierce! With an optimal barrel length, the .22 mag can offer up to standard ammo 9mm handgun levels of energy. That's more of a rifle, though.

The best "bang for the buck" without getting into the diminishing returns of a rifle barrel seems to be 4-6".

I think any of these weapons are an excellent choice, pending the decision of how to tote it.

[Kevin55]

If you go too big, it will sit at home with other full sized handguns.  The upside is an excuse  to buy another handgun.

In my last posts I have links to NAA ballistics and another website.  My take is with the 22lr, ammo choice is key.  For 22mag, the longer the barrel, the better the ballistics.   Both are optimal out of a barrel around 16".

[Classanr]

If you go too big, it will sit at home with other full sized handguns.  The upside is an excuse  to buy another handgun.

In my last posts I have links to NAA ballistics and another website.  My take is with the 22lr, ammo choice is key.  For 22mag, the longer the barrel, the better the ballistics.   Both are optimal out of a barrel around 16".

Whoa!  I suddenly pictured a 16" Earl.  Buffalo Mini.  Make a special skinny cargo pocket on my pants, let it ride on my thigh, button flap over the folding grip.  C&B, of course.

[Kevin55]

You haven't seen the photo of the mini with a 16" barrel?  Search this forum.

[Classanr]

You haven't seen the photo of the mini with a 16" barrel?  Search this forum.

Help me here, Kevin55 - I cannot find such a posting on this forum.
I tried 16" - that didn't bring up anything except the admonision to use "more than 2 chars"
I tried "16 inch", "long barrel", and several others to no avail.
I even went to Google to do a back-end search.

I started to wonder if I should have typed in "snipe"?

[PaducahMichael]

You haven't seen the photo of the mini with a 16" barrel?  Search this forum.

Help me here, Kevin55 - I cannot find such a posting on this forum.
I tried 16" - that didn't bring up anything except the admonision to use "more than 2 chars"
I tried "16 inch", "long barrel", and several others to no avail.
I even went to Google to do a back-end search.

I started to wonder if I should have typed in "snipe"?

He just said to search. He didn't say you would find anything. Sneaky Rascal!

[cfsharry]

In the past several discussions about a 16" mini "bicycle rifle".

[PaducahMichael]

In the past several discussions about a 16" mini "bicycle rifle".

Chiappa Little Beaver?

[Classanr]

Ah, as seen in this post:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=4325.msg69986#msg69986

[Goatpacker]

It's Chiappa Little Badger.

[PaducahMichael]

It's Chiappa Little Badger.

Sorry - I was thinking about the Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! Remember? "Little Beaver" was his "Tonto".

[grayelky]

The mini I pick for just plinking is a 3" Earl, with the birds head grips. I don't care for the boot grip. For front pocket carry, the sheriff with a 2 1/2" barrel is about the limit for comfort and being able to sit down. For me, the limit on size for pocket carry is the BW.

[mouselvr]

Great replies - thanks everyone!!  I suspect that the 6" barrel would carry fine IWB until I wanted to sit down I suppose.  I might have "something" sticking out that may raise questions from the members of the opposite sex    I like the idea of buying the 6" Hogleg and finding myself having to buy another 4" for carry and then have two fine pieces of work

[TwoGunJayne]

Great replies - thanks everyone!!  I suspect that the 6" barrel would carry fine IWB until I wanted to sit down I suppose.  I might have "something" sticking out that may raise questions from the members of the opposite sex    I like the idea of buying the 6" Hogleg and finding myself having to buy another 4" for carry and then have two fine pieces of work

"Don't worry, baby. That's just my Hogleg. Where are you going? No, really! ...guess she wasn't a fan of NAA products?"

[grayelky]

I have a brand new Hogleg sitting on the shelf at the shop. Anyone on here who may be interested may send me a PM/email, or call the shop at six78 four39 four5seven0

[TwoGunJayne]

Hogleg = totally worth it. I'm sure it won't be there long.

[PaducahMichael]

I have a brand new Hogleg sitting on the shelf at the shop. Anyone on here who may be interested may send me a PM/email, or call the shop at six78 four39 four5seven0

Conversion?

[TwoGunJayne]

Great replies - thanks everyone!!  I suspect that the 6" barrel would carry fine IWB until I wanted to sit down I suppose.  I might have "something" sticking out that may raise questions from the members of the opposite sex    I like the idea of buying the 6" Hogleg and finding myself having to buy another 4" for carry and then have two fine pieces of work

I know someone who cut out most of the pocket on one side of his pants to strap his weapon directly along the length of his thigh.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Shoulder carry is good for a Hogleg, btw.

[mouselvr]

... and it finally happened.  After spending too long deciding over this (and a couple of firearms in between), I now have a 4" Earl combo on order and on its way to my LGS.  We originally ordered the 6" Hogleg but he called me later and said that his order fell through as someone else ordered it (last one in stock) the same time he did and theirs went through first.  So, we opted for the 4" Earl (there was a few of those in stock).  I will surely post pics when I get it.

grayelky - if I had seen your post about the Hogleg earlier I would have grabbed it from you!

[TwoGunJayne]

4" is a good choice in the Earl/1860 pattern. I find it to be comfortable and not very snaggy.

I actually like the sights on it.

[mouselvr]

Thanks, TGJ!  I'm looking forward to getting it (and already searching for the 6" Hogleg

[TwoGunJayne]

It's like the Earl, but 2" better!