Sandy's September Soapbox

[Dinadan]

The September Soapbox had some interesting information for NAA lovers.

http://northamericanarms.com/soapbox.html

Sandy indicates that NAA is beginning to work through the backlog of orders. He also makes some tantalizing remarks about new models in the works. Very much worth reading!

[bbgun]

Dinedan,    At least Sandy let Uncle Lee down easy 

[Uncle_Lee]

Thanks Sandy for not letting me linger with my soul full of hopes and prayers.





Oh well, I never did get that pony that I wanted when I was four either.

[NOTL21]

As Sandy appears to read these blogs, I would recommend he appoint Uncle Lee to an advisory board position at NAA.

The position would be unpaid, but Uncle Lee would have full access to consecutive numbered pairs of minis at cost.

The wisdom gained and historical consumer perspective from Uncle Lee would be well worth it for NAA.

Skype could make this possible at low cost.

All those in favor say AYE! 

[bbgun]

Aye!  (But, with his knowledge of firearms, he should be paid.  Maybe $100,000 or so per year.)

[TwoGunJayne]

As Sandy appears to read these blogs, I would recommend he appoint Uncle Lee to an advisory board position at NAA.

The position would be unpaid, but Uncle Lee would have full access to consecutive numbered pairs of minis at cost.

The wisdom gained and historical consumer perspective from Uncle Lee would be well worth it for NAA.

Skype could make this possible at low cost.

All those in favor say AYE! 

Yeah! We could get something like an online forum and he could post there... 

[Uncle_Lee]

Thanks but I don't need any more money.
I'll just post here when I feel able to help or have humor.


I guess I will change my "want" to something that might happen.


4" SIDEWINDER - I want a pair with consecutive serial numbers.....

[OV-1D]

Unc_Lee I'll send you all my extra shoe boxes just let me know where. 

[Xebeche]

Hi All,

I'd like to introduce myself to the forum and then speculate on the upcoming product.

First, I am a retired scientist and am currently recovering from back surgery, hence the available time to become a member and post.  Firearms and knives are among my collecting interests, hunting and fishing are my favorite activities.  Unfortunately, I am told "no hunting or shooting this season" though the doc says that I can walk around and start physical therapy sometime in the future. 

Having watched the introduction of the breaktop followed by the sidewinder and reading about production costs and issues, I've come up with a theory about the new idea in the works.

Given that Uncle Lee's desire for a .32 mini is out of the question as it would require all new tooling and a complete redesign of parts, machinery and what not, I started thinking about what could be done with minimal changes to production parts and easily done alterations to the casting and machining operations and equipment.

So here is my speculation:

A minor change to the frame casting by removing the vents from the rib of a black widow ala the pug, making a slab sided rib/barrel/underlug and adding material to the underside to the frame equivalent to the depth of the crane lug on the sidewinder and opening up the cylinder area to allow a very slightly larger cylinder one could envision a 4 or 5 shot .25ACP.  A simple change in molds, slightly longer trigger (to compensate for the thicker underframe) and a modification of the pin position on the hammer to allow a slightly longer throw on the pawl, easily programmed CNC operation for the new cylinder and a pin added to the hammer.  They already have the .25 caliber barreling bore.

Even neater if it used moon clips as well.  Why .25ACP?  It is  already ballistically optimized for short barrels and with the 34gr projectiles equivalent in energy to the .22mag, but shorter.  Even better, with the 22gr magsafe loading it DOUBLES the muzzle energy.

So, is my idea a pipe dream or a feasible proposition?

Any way, it is good to meet you all and have a new place to hang out in.

Regards,
Russell

[MR_22]

4" SIDEWINDER - I want a pair with consecutive serial numbers.....

Thats what I want. Actually, though, I'll take on four-inch and one six-inch. I want a Sidewinder Hogleg.

Frankly, I think a Sidewinder with a longer barrel would be the highest demand new-NAA item out there. A .22LR Pug sounds pretty cool, but don't people want a longer-barreled Sidewinder more? I would think so--but maybe it's just because that's what *I* want.

[MR_22]

Welcome aboard, Russell! Glad to  have you here!

I would take a .25ACP mini. I think that'd be great. Moonclips are just fine--I have them in 9mm and .40S&W for a couple Taurus revolvers.

Could we have .32NAA instead? Yeah, OK, I know, that's the same question as getting a .32ACP mini. Ain't gonna happen. Fun to think about, though. I'll settle for a .25ACP mini.

Anyway, WELCOME!

[bbgun]

Welcome home Russell.  Engaging with this website is a sure cure for all your ailments.

[Taxi]

Guns are cool aren't they! 

[MR_22]

Guns are cool aren't they! 

Not after some rapid firing and reloading, they aren't!

[Dinadan]

4" SIDEWINDER - I want a pair with consecutive serial numbers.....

Thats what I want. Actually, though, I'll take on four-inch and one six-inch. I want a Sidewinder Hogleg.

Frankly, I think a Sidewinder with a longer barrel would be the highest demand new-NAA item out there. A .22LR Pug sounds pretty cool, but don't people want a longer-barreled Sidewinder more? I would think so--but maybe it's just because that's what *I* want.

That is what I want too. Except that I want a pair of Sidewinders with two inch barrels. Any Mini with a barrel over three inches just does not appeal to me.

A .25 revolver would be incredible, but I do not see a new caliber happening. Different barrel, cylinder, frame, hammer. I would love it, but too much would have to be changed.

[G50AE]

Welcome to the forum Xebeche.

[Uncle_Lee]

OK, what I would really like to have is a pair of Sidewinders with 9.5" barrels.
If NAA would make those, then all you folks that want different lengths could just saw them off to please yourself.



4" Sidewinders.
Come on now it is just a slightly longer barrel !!!!!
That couldn't be that difficult and it would make some folks real happy.

[glenn]

If .... Sandy's latest is a ...... Guardian ... in .22 mag   ... I WANT ONE !

[TwoGunJayne]

Didn't someone say that the custom order waiting list was about 6 months...?

Hmm. Was it a pair of 9.5" sidewinders with conversion cylinders? Yeah. I'm in!

There's still the question of the new toy Sandy hinted... will it be gold-washed?

...is it a magnum?
...does it load quickly?

We get to speculate wildly now!

[Xebeche]

Hi All,

Thanks for the welcomes to the forum.  I've long followed the forum, just never dove in.  I bought my first .22lr mini back in 1977 I think.  Over the intervening years have gotten 2 more long rifle, 1 mag and the first Guardian that was offered. 

Dinadan, the idea I had took into account the desire for minimal parts differences and tooling changes, minor casting changes and easily implemented CNC machining ops.  The hammer alteration and the pawl being all that needs to change internally.  It seems to me to be less alterations than making the sidewinder (lots more machining of the cast frame plus building a crane) and also avoiding the costly machining and fitting issues of the breaktop. 

As I said, merely some of my idle speculations.  I couldn't think of any where else they could go with a revolver without introducing a whole new type. I must admit to not even considering the auto line.  But seriously, a caliber addition is the most likely of any scenario.

Regards,
Rusell

[Taxi]

This pistol, the Dieckmann P66 prototype, has an interesting layout/features for a twenty two automatic,

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/62/lid/406

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITxehPimzQ

look at all that extra barrel length available within less space for example.

[Dinadan]

Dinadan, the idea I had took into account the desire for minimal parts differences and tooling changes, minor casting changes and easily implemented CNC machining ops.  The hammer alteration and the pawl being all that needs to change internally.  It seems to me to be less alterations than making the sidewinder (lots more machining of the cast frame plus building a crane) and also avoiding the costly machining and fitting issues of the breaktop. 

As I said, merely some of my idle speculations.  I couldn't think of any where else they could go with a revolver without introducing a whole new type. I must admit to not even considering the auto line.  But seriously, a caliber addition is the most likely of any scenario.

Regards,
Rusell

Russell - I would like to see a Mini in .25 ACP. It might be possible to produce one using the standard magnum frame, and I would certainly buy a pair of them. But I would really like for it to have a shorter frame and cylinder just long enough for the cartridge. Honestly, I do not have a clue what to expect, except that it will not be a .32 Mini.

[Taxi]

I think they should make two .32acp minis at least, manually using a drill etc given it's only for a couple, for a certain someone... Guaranteed two sales, at once he he.

The break top looks the chunkiest, model.

[Taxi]

A .22 Hornet case with a .25acp bullet, might make a better revolver cartridge...

[I]

A .22 Hornet case with a .25acp bullet, might make a better revolver cartridge...

They already have a semiauto that fires that, the .25 NAA.

Mr. 22 has one, you should ask him how he likes it.

[RogueTS1]

.25 mini would be cool..................... as long as it was a Pug...................

[Taxi]

No they don't already have one, the hornet's base diameter is 7.6mm as oppose the .32acp's of 8.6mm so it's slimmer thus more apt for a mini revolvers cylinder.

[MR_22]

If .... Sandy's latest is a ...... Guardian ... in .22 mag   ... I WANT ONE !

This suggestion has come up many times, but there's a good reason why there aren't very many .22 Magnum autoloading handguns. The .22 Magnum is not designed for autoloading. A Guardian-sized .22 magnum probably isn't going to be reliable. It's got to be a bit bigger to account for the length of the round.

Don't get me wrong--I would buy a 22 Magnum Guardian. I want one! I just don't thin it's going to work. Make it the size of the Kel-Tec PMR30 or the AMT Automag II and maybe it'll work. Maybe.

[MR_22]

A .22 Hornet case with a .25acp bullet, might make a better revolver cartridge...

They already have a semiauto that fires that, the .25 NAA.

Mr. 22 has one, you should ask him how he likes it.

I don't have anything that shoots a .22 Hornet, so I don't have any experience with that, but the .22 Hornet case is much longer than the .32ACP-length of the .25NAA. I actually really love shooting a .25NAA. It really has no recoil to speak of--kind of like shooting a .22LR or even .22Short. My Guardian .32ACP hurts my hand, but the .25NAA is very tame with regard to recoil.

For comparison, see the below two photos. In the bottom photo, the right is the .22LR and the one just left of it is the .32ACP (AA - .44Mag - .357Mag - .38Spl - .45ACP - .38Super - 9mm - .32ACP - .22LR). The one marked "Stinger" on the top photo is .22LR.

[pete_on_the_coast]

I wonder if NAA has ever published stats on production and/or sales of their products model by model?

I'd be curious to know what their top seller is (Sidewinder, I'd guess, since its introduction) but what would be next, BW?

In addition to satisfying my curiosity it might give some clue as to what the next big thing might be  . . . . .

[Dinadan]

Here is what I am hoping to see: a Sidewinder with a two inch barrel, though I hope it looks better than this computer generated image. I would like to see the lug under the barrel extended forward a bit. If NAA makes one with a 9 1/2" barrel then I hope they call it the Uncle Lee!

[OV-1D]

Here is what I am hoping to see: a Sidewinder with a two inch barrel, though I hope it looks better than this computer generated image. I would like to see the lug under the barrel extended forward a bit. If NAA makes one with a 9 1/2" barrel then I hope they call it the Uncle Lee!

  Heck Dinadan that 9 1/2 incher would just about fit in a Unc_Lee shoebox .     Seriously they need that cylinder to swing out some to allow shells to come and go unimpeded . 

[Dinadan]

Here is what I am hoping to see: a Sidewinder with a two inch barrel, though I hope it looks better than this computer generated image. I would like to see the lug under the barrel extended forward a bit. If NAA makes one with a 9 1/2" barrel then I hope they call it the Uncle Lee!

  Heck Dinadan that 9 1/2 incher would just about fit in a Unc_Lee shoebox .     Seriously they need that cylinder to swing out some to allow shells to come and go unimpeded . 

OV-ID - I know that you feel strongly about this particular shortcoming of the Sidewinder. In an ideal world where super metals were available and expense was not a factor I would love to see the revolver that you would design. But is this imperfect world that we inhabit, I am just very pleased with my Sidewinder, as is. Sure I have wished it were better (for maybe ten seconds), but overall I have been impressed. I was concerned that the crane might be overly fragile, but I am pretty sure that I have put over a thousand rounds (90% LR and Short) through my Sidewinder with zero problems. The gun is what it is, and it is pretty darn good in my opinion.

[OV-1D]

Here is what I am hoping to see: a Sidewinder with a two inch barrel, though I hope it looks better than this computer generated image. I would like to see the lug under the barrel extended forward a bit. If NAA makes one with a 9 1/2" barrel then I hope they call it the Uncle Lee!

  Heck Dinadan that 9 1/2 incher would just about fit in a Unc_Lee shoebox .     Seriously they need that cylinder to swing out some to allow shells to come and go unimpeded . 

OV-ID - I know that you feel strongly about this particular shortcoming of the Sidewinder. In an ideal world where super metals were available and expense was not a factor I would love to see the revolver that you would design. But is this imperfect world that we inhabit, I am just very pleased with my Sidewinder, as is. Sure I have wished it were better (for maybe ten seconds), but overall I have been impressed. I was concerned that the crane might be overly fragile, but I am pretty sure that I have put over a thousand rounds (90% LR and Short) through my Sidewinder with zero problems. The gun is what it is, and it is pretty darn good in my opinion.

  The mods needed have zero affect on the existing metals used , very simple to be quite honest . It separates a good gun from a great gun with little alterations involved , no more but less material on the frame and crane . Surprised it wasn't incorporated to begin with , I don't think the grips were considered , especially the full rounded wood type , in the initial designs . I have yet to switch to the flattened type of grips to see if the loading and extraction is helped any . But it is what it is oh well . Shoots like any other mini just like it should .     

[MR_22]

Here is what I am hoping to see: a Sidewinder with a two inch barrel, though I hope it looks better than this computer generated image. I would like to see the lug under the barrel extended forward a bit. If NAA makes one with a 9 1/2" barrel then I hope they call it the Uncle Lee!

I once created a six-inch version of an NAA mini and posted it to this board, and a year or so later, NAA came out with the Hogleg. I like to claim paternity of the idea, but that's probably not true, although I think I did get people talking about it.

Now the timer starts on the two-inch Sidewinder. Congrats!