Best Loader For Reloading 12 Gauge Slug Loads ??

[billt460]

I have acquired a recent interest in combat shotguns, and have purchased several of them in the last couple of years. I have reloaded shotshells extensively for almost 40 years. Mostly Trap loads. All of my shotshell reloaders are of the progressive type, (MEC 650, and a 8567 Grabber), both of which have reloaded thousands of rounds over the years.

I'm going to be retiring after the first of the new year, and I'm going to start casting and loading my own slug loads in 12 gauge. Obviously a progressing type loader is less than ideal for this type of loading assignment. So I'm looking to get a single stage loader to use just for the task of reloading 12 gauge slug loads. I've already decided on the Lyman hollow base slug mold because it is the easiest to load with Trap components which I already have. (12 Gauge AA type wads, or their Claybuster equivalent), and AA or Remington STS hulls, of which I already have thousands of.

The loader I'm currently looking at is the MEC 600 Jr. I'm already familiar with MEC loaders, already having 2 of them. But I was wondering if there is something better I should be looking at? I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who is more experienced at this. Another question I have is do the slugs themselves have to be cast from pure lead? I have hundreds of pounds of 5% Antimony lead that I was able to acquire at a place I worked for years back. I don't see why it would not work as well as pure lead? All of this ammunition will be shot from combat / riot style short barreled shotguns which all have cylinder bores, no choke.

With slug loads running around a buck a pop, casting and loading my own, with components I already have seems like a no brainer. All I need is the mold, which I can pick up for around $70 bucks and change. I've seen several You Tube videos with these Lyman hollow base slugs loaded with AA Trap components, and most all of them have delivered outstanding accuracy. I should add Clays powder will be my powder of choice, only because I have so much of it. My current Trap load for years has been 1-1/8th ounces of #7-1/2 shot in a AA equivalent wad, under 17.5 gr. of Clays powder, in a AA or Remington STS hull. The Lyman slug casts a little heavier, (around 1-1/4 ounces), but mine may be slightly lighter with the 5% Antimony lead. I think 17.5 gr. of Clays would be a perfectly safe charge to start at, and work up from there. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[RogueTS1]

I am far from the expert when it comes to reloading and casting but I seem to remember some of the more experienced guys here state that pure lead was not to be used. Rather something was to be added to the mix to make it appropriate for reloading. I am sure they will chime in here soon on the subject.

[billt460]

I am far from the expert when it comes to reloading and casting but I seem to remember some of the more experienced guys here state that pure lead was not to be used. Rather something was to be added to the mix to make it appropriate for reloading. I am sure they will chime in here soon on the subject.

That is true with pistol and rifle reloading. But with shotgun slugs pure lead is desirable because of it's softness. That has no effect on barrel leading because with modern plastic wads the lead never touches the sides of the barrel on it's way out of the bore.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

If you are going to fire slugs through a choke soft led is better. I use a MEC 600 jr from the 70s just don't use the shot bottle. Wad and slug work just fine through the fingers. Have loaded .69 pumpkin balls. They may not pass a choke. Drop one through first. Left "skid" marks in a full choke, not good. Might split the muzzle. Lee molds are about $22 from Midway or cabela . Mine come out looking nice.  Your lead should be fine  in the cylinder bore. This is what I use my junk lead for. As we get older the lighter target loads will be less recoil than the full power slugs. Think 10 years down the road. The Beast might put you an your ass with full loads.

[billt460]

I'm really liking that .690 lead round ball mold from Lyman. I think that would make a hell of a thumper!

[OLD and GRUMPY]

It's a THUMPER but not very accurate .Grand kids just showed up will post a lot more for you latter-- have fun!!!

[RogueTS1]

Well this is good to know. Now I know what I can use all this pure lead I have been saving for the last 15 years from my office x-rays for.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Lead--Hard lead has little "give" and may split a full choke. A slug has some "give" the ball is solid.

Bore-- All this is for "smooth" bore. .12ga bore size can be +or - a few hundredths . One guy with a KEL TEC bull pup said it was so wide the slug "bounced" down the bore giving him bad patterns. Have it checked maybe just so you know and can change wads. The chambers are ok. Chokes are not all the same . Drop a slug or ball through first.

Wads-- The petals on some wads are too thick. Some have a rib on the inside of the petal .This will distort the finished shell.You may want to trim off or shorten the petals. If it's too tight it can make the PSI go up.The ball is fatter than the slug. Make up just a few to start then see if they swell next day. Had this happen with proper AA wads.

Slug V Ball-- 1oz Lee slug is .687 with junk lead just under 1oz. .690 ball just over 1oz same lead. Pure lead is heavier. A slug is nose heavy  flies like a dart. The ball shoot and pray. The ball is VERY good at short range. Lots of fun. Find a old car as a target!!!

Lube-- If you trim the petals you might want to use a liquid lube to keep lead off the bore.

Powder-- Start light -a target load. Use the chart don't guess.

Mold-- The Lee molds are much cheaper .Been very happy with mine. Just do the PREP work. Never had to do extra trimming on the bullets. I have 5 Lee molds.

You know a lot about loading. Just think it through first. These are sort of Frankenstein loads with mix-match components.

More to come latter--have fun.

VOTE!!!

[bud]

Buy a slug barrel for your shotgun if you can. It will be around 24 in. long and have front and rear sights on it plus it will be an open cylinder with no choke.    I've shot several deer with my Browning Auto 5 with a slug barrel on it. 

[billt460]

Lead--Hard lead has little "give" and may split a full choke. A slug has some "give" the ball is solid.

NO solid projectile, lead or otherwise, is designed to be compressed by a shotgun choke. Only shot is designed to pass through a choke in order to be restricted. This is because the hundreds of pellets are "fluid", not a solid mass. If you try to constrict a shotgun slug or round ball that is larger than the diameter of the internal dimensions of the muzzle itself, you will burst the barrel, and possibly cause serious injury. If the slug / ball / wad combination will not DROP through the barrel by gravity, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT THROUGH!

[G50AE]

Lead--Hard lead has little "give" and may split a full choke. A slug has some "give" the ball is solid.

NO solid projectile, lead or otherwise, is designed to be compressed by a shotgun choke. Only shot is designed to pass through a choke in order to be restricted. This is because the hundreds of pellets are "fluid", not a solid mass. If you try to constrict a shotgun slug or round ball that is larger than the diameter of the internal dimensions of the muzzle itself, you will burst the barrel, and possibly cause serious injury. If the slug / ball / wad combination will not DROP through the barrel by gravity, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT THROUGH!

Thanks for the safety warning, that's certainly very "tactical" advice. 

[OLD and GRUMPY]

billt460--
Thanks for the safety note. I did say to drop a ball or slug through first and talked about some slug-wad combos being way too tight. The ball did pass my choke easy but still left "skid marks" I Only use cylinder bore now. The wad-slug combo might still be tight even in cylinder bore. Could jack up chamber PSI. The ball is fun but will probably stick with a heavy slug. Please post on how the pumpkin ball worked if you use it. Thanks.

[billt460]

I should add that some of the more modern plastic one piece wads afford a gas seal at the rear. These will not "drop through". However they can be pushed through with a wooden dowel rod, or a cleaning rod with finger tip pressure being applied. The payload these wads contain, be they slug or round ball, should pass through the entire barrel while seated in the shot cup of the wad itself, without hanging up anywhere, especially in the choke area near the muzzle.

A simple way to check this is to measure the thickness of the wad petals with a caliper or micrometer. Multiply that number times 2. Then add the diameter of the ball or slug. The sum of those numbers MUST BE SMALLER than the internal diameter of the bore of the shotgun at the muzzle.

[swolf]

Great info!  I recently bought a .690 ball mold, brass 12g shells, and have had a Lee hand press and all the fixuns,but too afraid to mess with it all.  I want to load for my single shot coach gun, and now want to pick up another old 12g and keep the barrel longer.  I'll be loading blackpowder and substitutes, but the ball and cup fit question was on my mind.  The cups I have are a tight squeeze with the ball in them on the cut-down coach, but it fits with a dowel push.  Unless I find a cylinder choke gun at the show tomorrow, I'll be looking at trying to make a mod. choke work for me.  This info helps to know what the solutions can be (rather than the typical "Ya cain't shoot a slug in anything but open choke.")

[OLD and GRUMPY]

A lot of the guys cut the petals off the wad.Works just fine.Not as tight. Don't force it. A tight choke is still not a great idea.Drop one through. If the cup is too tight it will jack up the PSI. If you don't use the cup lube the ball with Lee liquid lube to keep lead off the bore.

[swolf]

A guy who loads brass shells said he patches the ball with brown paper bag into the shell to avoid the lube seeping into the powder and allow some leading protection. 

[I]

Lead--Hard lead has little "give" and may split a full choke. A slug has some "give" the ball is solid.

NO solid projectile, lead or otherwise, is designed to be compressed by a shotgun choke. Only shot is designed to pass through a choke in order to be restricted. This is because the hundreds of pellets are "fluid", not a solid mass. If you try to constrict a shotgun slug or round ball that is larger than the diameter of the internal dimensions of the muzzle itself, you will burst the barrel, and possibly cause serious injury. If the slug / ball / wad combination will not DROP through the barrel by gravity, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT THROUGH!

Parting shot, sir.

Your post is slightly off. The "Foster Slug" was explicitly designed to deform through a choke. That's why it has external ribs.

I would agree with your verbatim quote of "solid slug." To say that no slug can go through a choke safely is quite incorrect.

In addition, drop-through alone is not a definitive defintion of safetly. The user may have selected an overcharge or incorrect powder type for the grain weight.

That said, I refuse to fire a slug that bulges a shell. That's a 100% no-go for me. I hope some forumite steps up and disagrees with me. He won't have many people to argue with. You, sir, are quite free to use ten forum aliases to tell me how much of an idiot I am. It will not, however, make you correct.

[OV-1D]

  Wow I lighten up how bout it . Who cares , the sun will surely rise in the morning no matter what brother .

[TwoGunJayne]

  Wow I lighten up how bout it . Who cares , the sun will surely rise in the morning no matter what brother .

Oh come the f&&k on!!!

You insult the crap out of people with a lot of aliases and then try to shrug this off? You say people are wrong with a crapload of aliases and try this move?

"Oh no big deal."

Enjoy talking to yourself, you have claimed in the past that you have serious psychological problems.

You end up hurting the ones you love. I have a cancer-ridden family and two family members with broken necks to tend to.

Ever wonder why I seem pissed-off all the time? It's because my life sucks. My life has always sucked. From the moment I was first sprayed in the face with a gasoline pump by a family member, I was regarded as a "tough kid." WTF is this kind of story?!!?!? I don't have spare recreation time to get insulted over the internet by some 2 jackholes. (1000 aliases, WTF ever.) I have to clean up the urine and defecation of family members in wheelchairs.

(See also: cultural reference, "Jackhole.")

Politely, sir, go and do something about yourself. Honestly, I suggest that you seek professional help.

Also sir, I think that you are psychopathic. (See also: "psychopathic.") It's quite possible that you cannot understand someone's pain unless you feel it yourself. As I am not a horrible person, I will not attempt to teach you this lesson.

By the way, I have flu-like symptoms and vomiting at the moment. You most likely hope I am afflicted with Ebola. Why should you care? I cannot help a family member sell all of their worldly posessions so they can have a bit of money before they hospice or die.  DIE. Yes, death for them is guaranteed in the very, very, short term. I am speaking of someone who has already had a kidney and most of their bladder removed due to cancer.

In short, sir, SCREW YOU.

Sir? Who am I kidding?

[TwoGunJayne]

I officially quit the forum. My life is perdition and brimstone.

[OV-1D]

  Wow I lighten up how bout it . Who cares , the sun will surely rise in the morning no matter what brother .

Oh come the f&&k on!!!

You insult the crap out of people with a lot of aliases and then try to shrug this off? You say people are wrong with a crapload of aliases and try this move?

"Oh no big deal."

Enjoy talking to yourself, you have claimed in the past that you have serious psychological problems.

You end up hurting the ones you love. I have a cancer-ridden family and two family members with broken necks to tend to.

Ever wonder why I seem pissed-off all the time? It's because my life sucks. My life has always sucked. From the moment I was first sprayed in the face with a gasoline pump by a family member, I was regarded as a "tough kid." WTF is this kind of story?!!?!? I don't have spare recreation time to get insulted over the internet by some 2 jackholes. (1000 aliases, WTF ever.) I have to clean up the urine and defecation of family members in wheelchairs.

(See also: cultural reference, "Jackhole.")

Politely, sir, go and do something about yourself. Honestly, I suggest that you seek professional help.

Also sir, I think that you are psychopathic. (See also: "psychopathic.") It's quite possible that you cannot understand someone's pain unless you feel it yourself. As I am not a horrible person, I will not attempt to teach you this lesson.

By the way, I have flu-like symptoms and vomiting at the moment. You most likely hope I am afflicted with Ebola. Why should you care? I cannot help a family member sell all of their worldly posessions so they can have a bit of money before they hospice or die.  DIE. Yes, death for them is guaranteed in the very, very, short term. I am speaking of someone who has already had a kidney and most of their bladder removed due to cancer.

In short, sir, SCREW YOU.

Sir? Who am I kidding?

  I presume your talking to me , nice try but I won't bite , I'm too bigger fish . I do have to add your one strange mother f****r .    And one more thing this is strictly just an opinion (mine) by the way . 

[RogueTS1]

Am I missing something here?

[OV-1D]

Am I missing something here?

  Went right over my head Rogue so I figured I'd just wing it ,hahahaha .

[Taxi]

You can get rifled chokes:

Tru-Choke Rifled Choke Tubes

Designed To Perform, Built To Last. These precision Rifled Choke Tubes are manufactured from 304 high stress stainless steel. Each choke tube protrudes .625 to 1.3 inches from the end of the barrel depending upon which type of firearm the choke tube has been specifically designed for (see chart type). Each choke tube has a right hand rifle twist, which is 1 in 35. Each choke tube has a groove diameter of .730 of an inch in 12ga. These choke tubes have a matte black finish and carry a lifetime warranty. If your looking for improved accuracy from a smooth bore barrel these< fine choke tubes will improve your groups. Works with slugs, rifled slugs and sabots.

http://www.choketube.com/choke-tube-style-details.php?rifled-choke-tubes&cts=25

Says it works with slugs, rifled slugs, and sabots.

Might be of interest...

[G50AE]

Am I missing something here?

Apparently I am too RogueTS1. 

[billt460]

A "Rifled Choke" will work because only the lands of the rifling itself engages the lead slug, much like a handgun or rifle. Some of them are designed to engage the wad to impart spin, for sabot type rifled slug loads. These type of chokes give room for the slug itself to upset. The lands engage the slug, and any upset metal has "room" to move into the corresponding grooves next to it. Again, much like a rifle barrel. Slug diameter is more crucial for these type of chokes to work properly.

[billt460]

The "Foster Slug" was explicitly designed to deform through a choke. That's why it has external ribs.

Not sure who to direct this at? Anyway, here goes. If you disassemble any factory loaded Foster slug load, you will find the slug by itself, and free from the wad, can and will drop through a full choke. The "rifling" really isn't designed to do anything, or add stability. The Foster slug gets it's stability from being hollow, and flying with it's heavy nose end first. Much like a badminton shuttlecock in this regard.

This is also why all factory loaded Foster type slugs are always loaded with a gas sealing wad behind them, much like a shot charge payload is. The company loading them has no idea what type of choke the end consumer will be firing it through. So they create the load to be safely shot through the tightest choke. This "one size fits all" loading is why Foster type slugs are less accurate than the newer designed Sabot type slugs that are designed to be shot only through rifled shotgun barrels. They can be made to much closer tolerances, and are therefore more accurate.

[billt460]

Jayne,

Sorry to hear about your problems. I wish you would stay. I wish you and your family the best!

[Uncle_Lee]

I know nothing about shotshell reloading so I have not entered here until now.

I been missing out on a good slap down.

Entertainment at its finest.

Pass the popcorn.......................

[OV-1D]

 
That guy never seems to get any older . 

[Uncle_Lee]

"That guy never seems to get any older ."

It is all in the attitude.   

[OV-1D]

  If you look real close you can see the popcorn popping in the bucket , haha . Never ending buttered popcorn how good is that .

[G50AE]

  If you look real close you can see the popcorn popping in the bucket , haha . Never ending buttered popcorn how good is that .

That actually reminds me of an episode of "The Dukes of Hazard."  County Commissioner Jefferson Davis Hogg, is using a new hot air popcorn popper and it fills his office with popcorn.  Maybe not realistic, but certainly funny.

[Uncle_Lee]

It is like the US Taxpayer's money.
The government keeps taking, thinking it will never run out.

[G50AE]

It is like the US Taxpayer's money.
The government keeps taking, thinking it will never run out.

Not a bad analogy.