America The Beautiful

[tranquilo]

No one sings this song like Ray Charles.

   (Be careful - it can bring tears to your eyes.)

   

   http:youtube.com/watch?v=gOvA-Hn4_ZM&feature=related

[tranquilo]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gOvA-Hn4_ZM&feature=related">http://youtube.com/watch?v=gOvA-Hn4_ZM&feature=related

[tranquilo]

Today, on the 235th anniversary of our nation's birth, America the Beautiful is being assaulted by enemies - both foreign and domestic.  She needs her citizens to get on their knees and pray to God for her.

   

   "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."  II Chronicles chapter 7, verse 14.

[ricart]

I have no problem with Ray Charles.  Have many of his songs in my I-tunes.  I do have a problem that "no one can sing this song "America The Beautiful" like Ray Charles.  First, I have always thought this should be our National Anthem. It's about all America, not just a single battle made into a poem.

   That said, and I don't know how to post site addresses, if you want to hear and see the person that introduced "America The Beautiful" browse "Kate Smith introduces America The Beautiful".  While outdated, she sings it as it was written and meant to be done, just as she sang it while making tours and USO events while entertaining our troops.

[tranquilo]

What I meant to say is that I've not heard America The Beautiful sung with as much "soul" and love of country as Ray Charles.  There are many great interpretations of this song and Kate Smith's version is a good example.

[forrestking]

Ricart,  I think America the Beautiful is a great song, an emotion evoking song, and portrays a segment of our country.  

   

    But, no matter how hard you look you will never find the word "God" in the US Constitution, nor will you find it in the Declaration of Independence except once as "Nature's God".    

   

   The founders of this country were smart in many ways.  They specifically used the description "creator" because they didn't want to lock the citizens in to an 'either/or' situation.  

   

   Beleiving in the Christian God is not a requirement to be a patriot.  The whole "god" push actually started in the 1950s - as a response to communism - our nation was not founded only on this tenet of freedom of religion, but this and many others.  

   

   As far as I am concerned we need to do away with the elitist God references in our government and allow each citizen to focus on his God of choice or lack thereof while our country focuses on being a country.  

   

   I think a 2000 year old space god/imaginary friend is a bit childish and should have been outgrown about the same time Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy were.  But it persists.  

   

   After all is said, it is a good thing so many people do believe in God, because that seems to be the only reason they behave properly.  If not for the threat of eternal damnation I would be scared to be around most of those who proclaim to be Christians.  

   

   I like our national anthem just the way it is.

[bud]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeez, I would give my life to defend his freedom for what he wants to say, but GEEEEEEEEEZ!

   InMHO that is exactly what's wrong with our country today, we have taken GOD out of everything!

   

   This  is by a daughter of a murdered couple  in   Raytown ,   MO ,  

   who had a Bible and Bookstore on 63rd  street    ..  She  says:

   

   

   When I had to testify at the  murder trial of my parents a week ago, I  was asked to raise my right hand.... The bailiff  started out "Do you swear to tell the truth, the  whole truth and nothing but the truth?"  

   

   I stood there and waited but she said  nothing. She said "Do you?"

   

   I was so  stunned I blurted out "What happened to "so help  me God'?"

   

   She came back with "Do you?" I  replied yes, but I was perplexed.

   

   Then  the judge said . "You  can say that if you want to."  

   

   I  stopped, raised my right hand, and finished with  "So  help me God!"

   

   I  told my son and daughter that when it came time  for them to testify, they should do the same.  

   

   

   I don't know what can be done about  it, but it's time for us to step up and DO  something.

   

   NBC this morning had a poll  on this question.. They had the highest number  of responses that they have ever had for one of  their polls, and the percentage was the same as  this:

   

   86%  to keep the words,  14%  against..  That is a pretty 'commanding' public response.  

   

   I was asked to  send  this on if I agreed  or delete  if I didn't.  

   

   Now it is your turn.. It is said that  86%  of Americans believe in  God.

   

   Therefore,  I have a very hard time understanding why there  is such a mess about having

   "In God  We Trust" on our money and having God in the  Pledge of Allegiance.

   

   Why is the world  catering to this 14%?

[tranquilo]

"Why is the world catering to this 14%?"  Good question Bud.  The thought that there is a Creator that we are accountable to scares alot of people and they try to fight against that which, in their inner being, tells them is true -there is a Creator!  

   

   The God of the Bible is the One that the great majority of the founding fathers believed in as well as the general population of the United States at the time as well as today.

   

   Whether a person believes in God or not and no matter how that person interprets history or the Bible - all will one day face their Creator.  The only choice we will have is this: Will we face Him as our Judge or will we face Him as our Savior?

[coinchop]

The First Amendment does not force anyone to say anything they don't want to. If the God thing comes up just keep your mouth shut on that part and allow me my free speech.

   To those who don't have or want a God, thats fine. Just don't don't try to shove your beliefe on the people that have a God, and the right to free speech.

   Bottom line--- I have the right to say it, you have the right not to.../

   

   I worked for a long time with a guy who seemed like  anybody else, but he had no God. Stole what he wanted all his life and probably still is. Didn't have to worry about getting his ass kicked in the hereafter so lived the good life. One of the things he did was farm and raise cattle on shares. Guess who lost when a cow died, or who got the most grain at harvest time.

   God isn't a cure all, but I think he helps a lot of the world have a better life.../

   Just me.

[tom]

The first US coins all had an image of the goddess Liberty.  People at the time used that term.  

   

   Americans can believe in any god or no god as they wish.  But they do not have the right to force that god or the teachings of that god on anyone else through government decree.

   

   If you don't believe me, read the First Amendment.

   

   Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.  

   

   It's very clear.  Sadly, so many judicial interpretations have not been.

[ricart]

Oh boy, did I start something.  Frankly, I had forgot that "America The Beautiful" had the word "God" in it.  Guess I get so use to seeing "God" on our money, on buildings, and many other places, I forgot that in our society, most everything one says, has a hidden meaning.  

   Really, I don't know what bores me the most, a Bible thumping fanatic, or a "don't say the word "God" atheist".  Both feel their belief is the only way, and that is not only unfortunate , it's boring.

[tranquilo]

Ricart, if you leave this life someday having rejected God the Son and His offer to you of salvation - you will not find your short encounter with Him in the next life boring.  Terrifying is the more descriptive word.

[tom]

I don't care that America the Beautiful has the word God in it.  The reason I'd never accept it is that brotherhood slop.  This is a nation of individuals who have a constitutional right of assembly that carries the obvious corollary that we have the right not to assemble or associate with those whom we do not choose to do so.

[heyjoe]

good thing no one brought up "God Bless America"

   Doh!

   

   Religion, abortion, gay rights, etc. are the  issues that the people who have been screwing over the middle class and this country's industrial foundation and consolidating wealth to a degree unprecedented in this nation's history prefer us, encourage us, promote to us, buy media to misdirect, to concentrate on instead of what they are doing to this country and to your children and grandchildren's future.

[westerly1965]

Heyjoe that statement couldn't possibly be more true.

[ricart]

Tran-Q, I do not debate religion.  I do make statements which can be accepted or not accepted.

   I do find it interesting that you seemingly have judged and condemned me.  Here all this time, I understood that only God could judge and/or condemn.

   I do understand that yours was a common practice in Salem and the Spanish Inquisition.  Now,  as you have seemingly taken on God's work, do I have to admit to you that I am a Warlock to be forgiven?

[tranquilo]

Ricart, this "Bible thumping fanatic", as you have called me has neither judged nor condemned you and does not even presume to have that power.  I do believe there is one way to Heaven and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible. I would be surprised if no one in your family or friends has not shared this with you already: there is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to shun.  The choice is yours.

[ricart]

Thump the thump, thump the thump, thump the thump.  I rest my my case. Besides, I might be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim, or Agnostic, or ....................

[chopprs]

ForestKing, I have an idea. Instead of doing away with God why don't we do away with YOU!!!

   A far easier and likely more satisfying task!  

   

   

   As for Ricart, be careful what you say, someone that you would never think of may be watching!

   

   A wise man once said that if every word ever spoken by every man was put to print for all to see there would only be one that would not hang his head in shame!!!

[mndoug]

HEYJOE --> Along with Westerly, there are many other people of note throughout history who would agree with you.  One especially comes to mind: "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" ("Religion is the opiate of the masses.") - Karl Marx

   

   TOM -->  Thanks for posting the text of the First Amendment.  Everybody focuses on the first part ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...") but they always seem to conveniently overlook the rest of it ("... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof")  

   

   FORRESTKING -->  You are so wrong in so many things you've said:

   

   * While you're right that the specific word "God" only appears in the Declaration once, you're wrong is thinking that proves the founders were areligious.  The reference to something "God-like" or sacred shows up in almost every one of the 5 contextual paragraphs (those explaining WHY the founders were separating from Great Britain):  "Nature's God"; "Creator"; "Supreme Judge of the world"; "Divine Providence" and "sacred honor."  Seems like a pretty strong statement about their belief in some kind of deity to me!

   

   * "The whole "god" push actually started in the 1950s"... Really?  You mean other than the "God push" in the Declaration?  Or George Washington's unscripted inclusion of the phrase "So help me God" and his kissing of the Bible during his first swearing in ceremony in 1789?  Or his references to "religion," and "the Almighty" in his Farewell Address in 1796?  Or the inclusion of the phrase "In God is our trust" in the Star Spangled Banner, written in 1814?  Or the first application of the phrase "In God We Trust" to U.S. currency in 1864?  Or Abraham Lincoln's many references to God and the Almighty in his speeches and writings?  Or Theodore Roosevelt's admonition that "It is necessary for the welfare of the nation that men's lives be based on the principles of the Bible"?  Or the references to religion throughout the various buildings and monuments throughout Washington, D.C. - most of which were built well before the 1950s.  Or Franklin Roosevelt's mentions of God in his speeches during WWII, and his belief that "freedom of worship is of no use to a man who has lost his God?"    Or the incalculable references to God in American civic life prior to the 1950s?  Or... or... or... you get the drift.

   

   * "I think a 2000 year old space god/imaginary friend is a bit childish and should have been outgrown about the same time Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy were. But it persists." While you have a right to speak freely, do you really have a need to insult others by describing them as childish and believers in fantasy?  

   

   TRANQUILO --> You do realize, don't you, that if you extend your right into a "right to proselytize," others have the right to rebut what you say.  And if you get too "in their face," they have a right to get further into yours.  I don't recall anything in Scripture that says "You must annoy thy neighbor to save their soul."

   

   -----

   

   Personally, I believe religion and politics should and can be discussed freely... but rudeness and insult are what all-too-often passes for debate these days.  

   

   Surely people who are enlightened enough to under the meaning and purpose of the Second Amendment can do better.

   

   I say, "Chill, man... let's all get along."  

   

   

[tom]

Franlin Roosevelt used references to the deity for the same reason that Josef Stalin used references to Mother Russia.  They were both interested in getting the masses to put the lives on the line to spread communism.  It worked.  But neither believed what he was saying.

[tranquilo]

Mndoug, I have not been rude nor have I insulted anyone.  Perhaps someone didn't like what I said but it was said without malice and for their benefit.

   

   "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." (Romans: ch.1 v.16)

[tranquilo]

You are right Mndoug - there is no scripture that says "You must annoy thy neighbor to save their soul."

   

   But there is a scripture that says "And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, 'All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.'  Amen" (Mark ch.28 v.18-20)

   

   Mndoug, if you would like to know more about Jesus and what He could do for you, just drop me an e-mail and I would be happy to discuss it further with you.

[westerly1965]

Oh good lord I didn't realize there was going to be a service.  

   Doug~neither Heyjoe or I said anything about not believing in god, nor did we he make reference to his or my opinions on any of that other stuff.  All he said was that those are the topics that the politicians want us arguing amongst ourselves about so they can do what they please without us noticing.  Kind of an unfair generalization don't ya think?

[tom]

I'll stick with the gods of my people, particularly Maedb (Maeve), Ireland's mother goddess.

[heyjoe]

doug you posted this which i agree with

   "Personally, I believe religion and politics should and can be discussed freely... but rudeness and insult are what all-too-often passes for debate these days."

   

   but first you wrote this which if it isnt an attempt at insult, and trying to invalidate what i said but tying it to something else which is unpopular amongst the posters here,(karl marx) which fell short of the mark by the way, i dont know what is.  

   

   I have come to expect better of you and ill just let this pass as an infrequent lapse.  

   

     

   

   "HEYJOE --> Along with Westerly, there are many other people of note throughout history who would agree with you. One especially comes to mind: "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" ("Religion is the opiate of the masses.") - Karl Marx"

[mndoug]

(Extracting my foot from my mouth...)

   

   Awww Joe (and Westerly) --> Didn't you see the smileyface at the end of the reference to Karl Marx?  I was tweaking you in fun, pointing out the similarity of the two statements.  I know the only Marx you ascribe to -like me- is Groucho Marx!  Mea culpa!  And I didn't mean to say either of you had denigrated believers or insulted anyone.  That was meant for someone else.

   

   TRANQULIO --> Neither did I mean to imply you insulted anyone.  Annoyed, maybe... That's a joke!!!  And since Jesus didn't specify exactly HOW to go about sharing the Gospel, I guess how one "spreads the Word" is guided by each individual's denomination and ferventness.  

   

   Peace, everybody!

[forrestking]

Chopprs...  That's an interesting threat/suggestion.  Had I posted something like that, after reflection I would delete it, or ask a moderator to delete it.  

   

   Not very Christ-like either, from what I have learned in Church and Sunday School.

[chopprs]

Well good for you then!

    I am glad you have yourself all figured out...

[forrestking]

I hadn't thought of it that way.  Perhaps I *am* self actualized (Maslow's version).

[sleddogn]

i'm not athesist, but i'm agnostic, like every human at birth. There is nothing wrong with believing, but when you talk in absolutes, it only shows how one becomes a non original thinker, and shows that one is not being honest with themselves and others. How can one know for 100% sure, that god is real? How can one know for sure that god isn't. I think we should be using different language when talking about god. We should be saying I hope, and, I think this way is good, etc. but claming, i'm going to hell, and its our way or the highway, just makes me laugh, and truely understand the small mindedness from which these statements originate....

[ricart]

Hey Sled, that was about as well put as anything on this thread has been.  Too many folks thinking they know all the answers.