Political Threaddrift

[westerly1965]

I know that I never do it!  Ahahahahahaha but it has come to my attention that we might actually need a thread for some of this political BS that drifts around.  So that said by all means please post literally whatever you want to politically oriented and everyone here can just banter about whats right or wrong or what we don't know.  

   

   Have Fun Guys!  But lets try and be as nice as possible in an effort to keep this thread alive.  As I have said in the past NAA has never (that I know of) locked or deleted a thread for any attacks on any political figure so go ahead and rip them apart!!!

   BUT NAA has deleted threads in the past for Forum members attacking other forum members so lets go out of our way to only rip into the politics and not other forum members/friends!!  Again I have to say have fun and Enjoy!

[chopprs]

........so you are a moderator now?

[Uncle_Lee]

That is like putting three pitbulls in a ring and saying "play pretty now".

   

   

   

   Let's get ready!!!!

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

[lohman446]

I beleive that many paths lead to G.... oh wait, you said political.

   

   I beleive that all public "servants" from military to police officers and ESPECIALLY representatives should be required to take a basic test on the Constitution, the Federalist and Anti-federalist papers, and the history of the Bill of Rights, Constitution, and Articles of Confederation.  I think they should have to pass these, but since I understand it would be taken like the intelligence tests after the civil war to keep people from voting I would settle for their scores having to be part of every add, as well as prominantly posted on the ballot.  Further they should have to answer an essay question involving the enumerated powers of the federal government if they were seeking federal office.

   

   I also beleive that congressional pay should be directly tied to military pay in some form.  I also think that said pay should in some way be tied to average or mean household income.  Its ridiculous that are men and women who work long hours in dangerous conditions in the military, often for years at a time, are being paid less than the poverty level.  Its almost as equally ridiculous that politicians are being paid 10-20 times this.  I think that any pay raise for a politician should be a ballot issue.  Do not tell me you are working for me and then vote for your own pay raise when I already think you make too much.

   

   I think every time a politician discusses unsustainable retirement benefits they should immediatly have to explain how the retirment package the government gives them is different.    

   

   I further beleive that any law that seperates representatives from the general population (ala healthcare and social security) is patently un-American and anyone voting for such a bill should be subject to immediate recall.  

   

   I think not including food and energy in inflation figures is a ridiculous trick to make things look better than they are.  

   

   I think Congressional ethic violations should be subject to immediate jury trial and prison term.

   

   Have fun

[Dinadan]

I wish that the constitution specified that that every law passed by congress  

   and every regulation enacted by federal agents would expire at the end of ten  

   years. And that every law currently in force should be read in full before a

   quorum at the beginning of each session of congress. The purpose being to  

   limit the amount of laws on the books.

[silvershooter]

What's our REAL unemployment #?....30%?

   truth seeking minds want to know

   How long before it gets to the point where more people are living off the labor of others than are putting into the system.  

   

   Without HONESTY and a moral belief that God can see us in the dark many politicians will continue lying and playing power games to our detriment.  

   

   If we don't get out the vote for freedom loving conservatives next year, we are done.

   

   Will Texas withdrawal from the US?  

   

   The media keeps shoveling crap at us like the Casey Anthony  and Amanda Knox murder trials while the real important issues go underreported. I get most of my news and political goings on from the radio and internet. Fox news is the least liberal major outlet and the most fair period.

   

   Maybe it's for ratings, but WHY is the media so serious and anxious about the presidential candidates for 2012? It's over a year away and A LOT can change before then! All I need is one or two debates between Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, and a couple others sometime before Nov 2012 and I'll decide then.

   

   Ok, I feel better now. Thanks west!

[westerly1965]

Lol you know silver you make a good point the leftist media is awful worked up about who's going to run in 12 in their defense Fox has been covering it as well but maybe more because they have to then they want to, I don't really know as I don't watch enough of any of them to offer a valid opinion I only see what's on when I am at work or oddly at hotel contnental breakfasts lolol.  Maybe it is for ratings but I doubt it.  I am fairly sure that the right will win the next election my question is does it matter?  We came into this mess on the heels of 8 years of right leadership.  I know Obama has made it worse but would Mccain have made it any better or would he have done the same or similar things.  The reality is that its us againt them and they are winning...

   

   Chopprs no I am not a moderator nor do I care to have the board moderated in anyway just thought it would be interesting to see if this thread could make it past 10 posts lololol.

[lohman446]

"All I need is one or two debates between Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, and a couple others sometime before Nov 2012 and I'll decide then." - Silvershooter

   

   You know whats interesting about this is I agree that currently that list includes everyone I am interested in at all to nominate.  Yet I keep hearing about Obama lite (Romney).

[westerly1965]

Yea I didn't really like Romney before and I like him less and less the more I see of him.

   

   Dinadan good idea!  Lets make em read every dang law on the books before every session and maybe they will stop passing all these bs laws!

[heyjoe]

what else will 24/7 "news" stations talk about on a slow news day?

   

   i agree with almost all of Lohman's post, especially tying congressional pay, health benefits and retirement to the military. Preferably a particular rank and not the rank of General.

   Any meeting or contact a politician or agency head has with a lobbyist, or corporation or any other group should be required to be logged in and posted on an official site as to time involved in the meeting and purpose under penalty of perjury. of course this shouldnt apply to defense or security issues but only real defense or security issues, if this exception is used and later proved to be false again the penalty of perjury applies.

[westerly1965]

Yep lets tie congressional pay to that of a private first class.  If its enough pay for the guy getting shot at then its enough pay for the guy sending him into that situation Imho.

[tom]

That would insure a supply of intelligent and educated men and women.  We all know that the best people desire and deserve the worst pay.

[troodon]

I agree with most of what Lohman says, also.  I would add term limits for all senators and representatives.  An even bigger issue is rescinding the "Citizens United" decision of the Supreme Court.  That decision has allowed millions (if not billions) of dollars from unidentified sources on both sides to flow into political campaigns.  Who is buying our politicians?  Nobody knows.  Public financing would end having the "Best Congress Money Can Buy".

[lohman446]

Actually Troodon now that you bring up campaign finance reform I am going to break with my libertarian brethren and make a suggestion that may or may not be popular:

   

   Public financing of campaigns.  No, not billion dollar campaigns either.  A reasonable, limited amount coming from either anonymous donation (anonymous to the candidate) or even the public treasury.  Lets make the campaigns focus on a series of debates or other public forum issues with the candidates having to do something other than sound bytes to get elected.  No billion dollar campaigns from people who "understand" what the rest of us are going through.  

   

   I have not flushed out the entirety of what I am thinking in regards to this and realize there are certain hurdles - such as primary candidates getting X amount for how deep of candidates, and do we give the parties that much control over candidates (no is good).  Its one of those, I know what is not working, and I know there has to be something better out there.  Right now big business and big labor have FAR too much influence in politics

[westerly1965]

I couldn't possibly agree with you guys more on the campaign finance issue.  We HAVE to do something about the way money flows to these candidates.  We also have to change the laws regarding term limits.  Our problems won't get better until we do away with career politicians.

[tom]

Term limits deny me the right to vote for the candidate of my choice if that candidate is at his term limit.  I know that it prevented a third term for Clinton, but it has also prevented politicians from running for whom I might have voted.  Also, think of unintended consequences.  The governor of Montana, a lame duck Democrat, recently vetoed constitutional carry.  Would he have done this if he could have run again?  Did he do it in hopes of a job offer from Washington?

   

   Again with campaign finance, it denies me the right to support my candidates to the extent and in the manner I may wish.  Think about the fact that Ronald Reagan would have probably never been elected governor of California, let alone president, if this sort of law had been in effect.  He needed his "angels".

[troodon]

Tom,

   The reasons you oppose these are the very reasons we need them.  You have to be willing to take possible negative outcomes with the good.

   Professional politicians will never do the will of the people, only the will of the highest bidder.

[tom]

Troodon,

   

   Let my opponents squeal with outrage.  My way means less government intrusion; yours means that you are effectively stealing my money by prohibiting me to use it as I wish.

[lohman446]

Tom I understand the logic where you are coming from but I beleive big business results in multiple issues here.

   

   I beleive there should be some restrictions on income over a certain level.  Allow it, but tax it at about 80%.  Now I am talking well above "reasonable" and I mean only in regards to salary, not return on entrepenuiral investment.  Lets say the number is in the couple to several million dollar range.  I am going somewhere with this statement, and it is to avoid turning donations into allowable salary.

   

   My big issue is not with individual donations.  

   

   You know how the right is currently rallying against the influence of big unions on politics and how unfair it is that union members pay dues and those dues go to support politicians they do not like.

   

   Can the same be said in regards to donations from big busines to polical interests that individual stock-holders may not like?  I would argue that they are very much similiar.  

   

   This is my problem.  Large corporations and unions make decisions to spend large amounts of money on political interests that they should not be able to as collectives.

   

   So while I still question your conclusions in regards to individuals I understand the point you are making.  However, I think this is a seperate point from collectives of whatever type.

[troodon]

Lohman446,

   Very well stated.  That is the point I was trying to make about campaign financing.  This is door that the Citizens United decision opened and there is no accountability for those donations.

[tom]

The Marxists have spoken.

[heyjoe]

today you want transparency in campaign contributions, tomorrow you will be seizing the means of production

[lohman446]

Now Tom, isn't it fair in an open debate to point out the issues you object to and why, rather than simply making a catch all statement?  I mean its a cute sound byte but it does nothing to promote the conversation or disucssion.

[Kevin]

Let's limit the amount of commercial time that can be used for political ads on television or radio. No ads (candidate OR PAC) more than 90 days before a primary election and no more than 10% of the total advertising time of a venue. The same 90 day limit for newspapers and advertising on ANY web site except their own clearly labeled web sites.

     

   To be fair, they may buy programming time if the tv station/network or radio station/network wishes to sell it to them, but they must clearly pre-announce the shows in TV Guide, etc. They may also purchase and insert their own separate sections in newspapers, providing the outside pages of the section are marked with one word, POLITICS, in the same size font the publication uses for front page headlines.

     

   I don't have a formula for magazines, but I doubt I would be seeing any politicians in "Chess Life" (too small a circulation) or "Soldier of Fortune" (anti-gun liberals need not apply).

     

   I'd also require that party affiliation NOT be indicated on any ballot and not allow straight ticket voting.  

   

   It might not improve politics much, but it would help me keep my blood pressure to an acceptable level.

[tom]

Although the author of this article doesn't state it, certain spirits have now begun to show their enmity with Obama.  I believe that there's more to come.  I know that he himself brought this about by accepting the aid of evil spirits in his country.  There was a story election night that disappeared quickly.  It showed his countrymen (at a distance) sacrificing goats by crushing their skulls.  Evil spirits engorged with blood sacrifice are often terrible in their power.   But their victory is never secure.

   

   http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=318573">http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=318573

[troodon]

As I feared, this debate has descended below the level of rational discussion into the realm of name calling and voodoo.

[chopprs]

Uh-oh.......it looks like we have heard from the newly, self appointed Moderator! "Troodon"

   Whom has also decided to self appoint himself to decide what is "rational" and what is not.....

   Whom also seems to have an awful lot to say about politics IN THE POLITICS THREAD for someone that self stated that he is not here to discuss politics!......all of this is 30 posts or less!

   

   

   

[troodon]

chpprs,

   You were the prime example of why I originally said I didn't want to discuss politics.  People like you have no ideas of their own to add, so they try to bully and intimidate anyone with whom they disagree.  Most of us learn how to deal with bullies at a very young age.  You spit in their eye.

   So, chpprs,  Here's spit in your eye.  Now you can go back to whatever dark realm whence you came.

[chopprs]

So now he resorts to his own accusations, name calling. SURELY an aweful lot of bull for someone who has been on a forum for such a short period. ...or has he?

   My post was simply FACTS! and nothing but FACTS! The FACT that Troodon becomes defensive so easily is also an intersting FACT!!! Contradiction is most obviously one of his studied arts as well as freind making. I am assuming that Tom is now his friend as well.....

   

   

   

   

   p.s......what's with the Owl pic??

   Does that mean you are watching me?

   .....creepy dude!

[bud]

Chopprs has been here since 9-2009 with over 2000 post. He has gave advice about firearms, opinion on politics, family, religion, and many many other topics. It always amaze me when someone jumps on board on this forum and they try to intimate, bully, and disturb with opposing views to a long time member of the NAA forum.

   With your 32 post, over half of them has been insulting to someone here on the forum.  

   No I am not the moderator, but if I were you would be GONE! Have a great day.

[tom]

Chopprs,

   

   I believe in political and economic freedom.  I am not a friend to anyone who seeks to limit or repress those freedoms either with forced religious tenets or forced political dogma.  I am a friend to those who love liberty.

[chopprs]

Not to mention that his stupid owl pic has screwed up the alignment of the entire thread now so we have to scroll right and left all the way down!

   

   .........stand back for a second guys, I think I can fix this!

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

[troodon]

Your made-up "facts" fail to impress.  Also I believe you became defensive about my very first post.  And if you love liberty so much, why do try to supress opinions different than yours?  I had you pegged as a closet nazi from the first.  You have done nothing to disprove that hypothesis.

   In addition, since when does the length of time someone has posted have anything to do with truth?  A long time bully is just as bad as a new one.

   Oh well, its been fun.  See you in the funny papers!

[Kevin]

I just assumed Tom was joking, because anyone who takes voodoo or the Republican party or Democratic party seriously has severe educational and/or mental health issues.

     

   As for the magnetic Presidential Seal falling off the Presidential limosine, I'd say that's a sign that General Motors cut back on the amount of steel in Cadillac doors, not the approach of a milestone in Christian mythology.

[lohman446]

Tom, ignoring a lot of the stuff in this thread I do wonder this.  At what point does iberty become anarchy, either through force or the use of force in regards to the means of commerce?