Political Threaddrift

[tom]

Lohman446,

   

   Madison stated in one of the Federalist Papers (I can't recall which) that no one faction should be more powerful than the government, but that all the factions taken together should be.  While I don't agree with the first part of his statement, I believe that this could be a starting point.

[louiethelump]

Lohman446:

   

   You know, for a libertarian, who has "libertarian brethren"  (AKA "snake boy" or Troodon), you want to TAKE an awful lot of control over money, terms, campaigns, and even set "limits on personal income"!

   

   For a supposed Libertarian, you sure sound an AWFUL lot like a Socialist or a Communist and NOTHING like a Libertarian..........

   

   AND you want to TAKE money from ME to GIVE to candidates (who would choose who gets the money?  YOU and Troodon?) of your choice..............

   

   AND, if you had EVER had any experience with the military OR law enforcement you would KNOW that they DO take training and a NOT SO SIMPLE test on the constitution and all the amendments attached.  What you REALLY want is for them to be taught YOUR take on what those documents mean.

   

   OBVIOUSLY YOU have NO IDEA what the Constitution means or says or YOU would NEVER make such suggestions that the tax payers should fund candidates for office or there be limits on personal income..................

   

   I WILL not call you a FAKE or a phony for posing as a Libertarian as the board has pretty much disapproved of names attached even when they fit.

   

   Louie

[westerly1965]

Yea I don't like taxpayer money going to campaign finance either that's a problem.  I would like to see a happy medium somehow to control the amount spent so that if a commoner wanted to run for office they could.   However, as others have already pointed out I have no idea how you could do that without violating the constitution so its kind of a catch 22.

[louiethelump]

You can't get too much more common than Cain, or for that matter Obama himself............  One is a self made man, who without limits on personal income, became a man of wealth,,,,,,,, and the other was raised on welfare, went to school on the government's dime, and has never held a real job...............  And yet, he raises more money than just about anyone....

   

   Money is not the problem.  Let them finance their own campaigns any way they want to.  The problem is the lack of integrity in the man, when he allows himself to influenced by the contributors (as in the case of Obama's "debt" to the unions) to the point that he is owned by them....  Men of honor cannot be bought..............

   

   We need men of honor, and they are harder and harder to find.  The more we move away from the 10 Commandments and the respect for truth and honesty as preached by almost all religions, the harder it is to find men or women of honor, who CANNOT BE BOUGHT..............

[chopprs]

HONOR?

   

   That  man has the HONOR of a fart!

[louiethelump]

Chopprs:

   

   What man are you referring to please?

[chopprs]

Obama!

   

   ......and stop being so *** polite! It is not very becoming!

[westerly1965]

Good point Louie...

[louiethelump]

I think we pretty much all agree on that........... if sounded like you thought I was talking of a specific person...........

   

   What we NEED is men of honor...........  There may be one or two running now,,,,,,,,,, but certainly not the current man............

[westerly1965]

Yes I think we pretty much all agree on that lol.  But we need to find that new person quickly.  The right base vote is a gimme for anybody but Obama.  A candidate needs to be found that can swing the centrist vote if the right candidate is found I believe that some of the left vote could be swung as well.  I know alot of dems that are not happy with Obama.

[louiethelump]

I like the Texas Governor.............  a sitting governor that carries his own 380 self defense pistol in spite of the presence of his guards, and uses it to protect his pet dog from attack by a coyote is my kind of guy............  Not to mention that Texas is booming, partially due to him, at a time the rest of the country is in trouble...........

[westerly1965]

I hadn't heard much about Perry until very recently and started doing some research on him.  The more I look at him The more I like him to.  I don't know what his faults are yet and I am sure he has some but everyone does and hopefully the pluses outweigh the minuses.  Put the right running partner with him and I think he could win it.  I would vote for him.

[chopprs]

Perry is second in the polls and he has not even announced he is running yet......

[louiethelump]

I have been a Romney supporter generally as the choices were poor............  but his recent statement that he believes in man made Global warming, has put him into the "just another politician" in my book, and I will only be voting for him if I have no other real choice but Obama.  He is trying appeal to the middle of the road gang, and as McCain showed, that NEVER works..........

[westerly1965]

They can't appeal to the middle of the road that's what they don't understand.  People in the center aren't swayed by somebody telling them what they want to hear.  They are swayed by people that have their principals and stand on them.  I consider myself a centrist am I going to agree with everything someone running on the Gop ticket believes?  Not a chance but if that person has character and I believe that he will stand by his principles he will still get my vote.  I think most of America is tired of these guys pissing on our shoes and telling us its raining.

[louiethelump]

Ronald Reagon won by wide and comfortable margins by NOT pandering to the alleged "middle of the road" and just stepping up and presenting his conservative stand on issues.  There are plenty of votes for a true conservative.  The VAST majority of the country is conservative.  The problem is that there has not been a true conservative run since Reagan, and many of them in the elections since Reagan have not bothered as there was no choice.  (like the last election, where republicans and conservatives had to hold their noses and vote for McCain who was almost as bad as Obama)  The rise of the Tea Party group is nothing more than the people that are tired of Conservatives that are not, and Republicans that act and vote like Democrats.

   

   There is no need to appeal to the fence sitters and centrists as they don't really exist.  It is just another name for a liberal who does not want to be called a liberal.  They are liberals with a few conservative ideas (like wanting to own guns as they have realized they need them) that make them unpopular with the rest of the liberals, and when they walk into the voting booth, they vote liberal.  This is why every time a supposed conservative panders to the "centrists" or what I call fence sitters, he or she LOSES by great margins.  The Conservatives won't support him, and the liberals and "centrists" vote Democrat anyway, as that is what they really are.

   

   Just opinion and not intended to be a personal attack on anyone.  We need liberals and "centrists" so we have someone to laugh at and to make up jokes about..............

   

   Louie

[lohman446]

I always thought we try to hard to pigeon-hole politicians.  

   

   Give me a STRONG fiscally conservative / socially liberal candidate and I am voting that way (Hi Ron Paul).  However, too often the parties see such a mixture as wrong for them and won't give me (and a lot of other people with similiar views) that choice.

[tom]

I generally agree with Louie.  I am not so sure, however, that the vast majority really have any philosophy.

[chopprs]

....I am sorry......

   "Fiscally Conservative Liberal"

   

   BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAhahahahahahhaha

   

   That is like a one legged Marathon runner.....

[westerly1965]

Louie you would then call me a liberal right?  That's ok I am very used to those on the right doing so.  I would ask you a question though.  If I am a liberal why did my last two voting cards (and in fact nearly every one I have ever cast) have a minimum of 60% of the votes going to the conservative candidate?  I am not a republican or a democrat I am simply a realist.

[lohman446]

Chopprs, as in disagreement that it is possible to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal in regards to government?.  Tell you what, I will start a thread in the new political subforum with that question, it will be a good place for discussions

[louiethelump]

Westerly1965:

   

   Did not call you ANYTHING.......... if you are picking out what I said, and attaching that to you, YOU are doing it..............

   

   Maybe in local elections you have some conservative candidates, but I have not seen one on the national level in many years.  that is a big part of the problem..........

[westerly1965]

Ok fair enough I label myself a centrist and you said their are none so I just connected the dot.  Your statement above is a very valid argument though.  Look at the last election locally we had some really good conservative candidates.  At a national level though not as much.  As we saw with Obama/Mccain race again no "true" conservative.  I will say in our last election Carly Fiorina ran against Boxer and should have one.  She was actually fairly conservative and I felt a much better choice.  (Though I doubt I will get many arguments here in favor of Barbara Boxer LOL!)  But the way they are districted out here she could not get the votes to win.  We have allowed the politicians in this state to create modify and set their own districts for to long and thank god that is finally changing.  Over the next two years a new citizens commitee that we have (finally) voted in will take over and redistrict the entire state.  We won't see the effects until after 2012 unfortunatly but at least they are coming!  Once the state is redistricted in a manner which makes sense I truly hope to see some real change in the politics here.  What they are and have been doing for many years is not working and we need to change it very soon or there will quite simply be nothing left to save.  Our current federal government is not far behind in regards to that and I hope we can save that before its to late as well.

[chopprs]

Sorry Lohman if you disagree with my opinion but I find it just hilarious that anyone that would call themselves a Liberal, Centrist or anything having to do with the Democratic parties way of thinking could be fiscally conservative. The contrary being one of the standards of the Liberal/Democratic way. More/bigger government and more spending. As a matter of fact you will find that most who defend Obama will tell you that the only problem with the Stimulous was that it was not big enough.....in my opinion this is ridiculousness!

   ......not really interested in discussing it anymore. I simply stated my opinion. If you disagree, good for you. It is a free country(for the moment) and you can have any opinion you wish.

[lohman446]

Nah, I'm all for the discussion and not taking it personally Chopprs.  In the end we will all vote as we see fit.  This is just discussion.  However, I think that what I mean by socially liberal and what you think I mean are different.  Its probably an error in how I phrased it.  I invite you to continue this discussion in the other (new) forum where I think I might be straightening out what I mean and you may find it more... well possible.  If you chose not to discuss it, thats fair to.

   

   For the record, there are one legged marathon runners

[dwalk]

A thread about politics. And what is more political than Islam?

   

   This year saw the tenth anniversary of the Muslim dynamiting of those 1,500-year-old Buddhist statues. Our liberals ignored this, of course.  

   

   In September, there will be the tenth anniversary of the Muslim mass murder of thousands of American civilians in New York City. Our liberals not only want us to forget this, they call us "bigots" for opposing a victory mosque being erected on the site.

   

   Islam is a political movement which has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to, for the last 14 centuries, by destroying the host culture. Where, today, are the once-Christian Middle East, Turkey, and North Africa? Where did Zoroastrian Persia go? Who decimated more than 270 million non-Muslims since Mohammed, the first Muslim terrorist and pedophile?  

   

   Liberals think they will be immune from the coming slaughter.

   

   There is a commonality between Islamic atrocities, such as the Armenian Genocide and the Bamiyan Buddhist statues destruction, and Stalin's dynamiting of a cathedral then erecting a Communist Party HQ on the ruins. Our liberals are soft on both Islamists and communists.

   

   And National SOCIALIST (think left), Hitler's Nazism, an occult religion based on Norse warrior mythology, also resembles Islam and communism. All of these ideologies are evil.

   

   Today's politics come down to the age-old battle between good and evil.

[heyjoe]

ten years ago the presidency and both houses off congress were controlled by republicans.  what was their response to the dynamiting of the buddhist statues?

   

   i live in the NYC area, i dont see liberals or conservatives here trying to forget 9/11 or the commemorations that are being planned that many are a part of planning. such simplistic statements ill serve the truth.  

   

   anytime it is generalized that liberals do this or all believe this and conservatives do that or all believe this, the whole wide spectrum in between of the two extremes, which is where most peoples political beliefs lay is ignored at the expense of the truth.

[dwalk]

Nobody claimed that ALL Republicans are conservatives, and that NONE of them are RINOs, or liberals. Such a generalization would indeed "ill serve the truth".

   

   Mayor Bloomberg is liberal, no? He pushed hard FOR a Ground Zero mosque, no? And, incidently, he also heads up a group of mayors fighting the Second Amendment. They don't want ordinary Americans to be able to own and concealed-carry NAA minis for self protection.

   

   Real conservatives support freedom and oppose Islamic Naziism. Sorry if that's too "political" for some folks.