Not welcome here!

[bert]

Wife and I went out to eat at Toby Keith's bar and grill in Michigan. Walked inside and there was a sign that stated NO FIREARMS OR GUNS. I guess he aint much of a country boy! This was at an outlet mall and it was the only store that I saw that had that sign. I know that I will not be going back until they allow me to conceal carry. I have been in several bar and grills and have not had my rights denied and I'm not starting now.

[mayvik]

Make sure you call them up and let them know they lost your business because of their dumbarse sign.  

[cedarview kid]

Yes, let them know of your displeasure.

   

   Also, I'm curious about what the difference is between firearms and guns....

[apple_a]

I've seen him shooting selective fire weapons at an old truck with Ted Nugent on the outdoor channel. I know nothing else about him.

[ksblazer]

Do they not let you conceal carry since it's a bar? Is it a 21 and over place?

[vegasgeorge]

It's always bothered me that we good citizens who support the 2nd Amendment are so much less organized than the unAmerican gun control crowd.  We need a national "Do Not Patronize" registry listing those businesses that ban guns, and a "Please Support" registry listing those businesses that are gun friendly.  Then we would have enough clout to encourage some changes in policies.  How could we do that?

[coopercdrkey]

The Florida CCW Permit is mailed with a pamphlet clearly stating the places where you are NOT allowed to carry a weapon.  These are mostly common sense restrictions-  courthouses, schools, prison visits, etc.-  and "any bar or any establishment where the primary purpose is the serving of alcoholic beverages".

   

   Now, being totally unfamiliar with the format of a Toby Keith Bar and Grill, and with the provisions of the Michigan carry permit, I can see a possible gray area, but it has made me wonder whether I should be locking my carry in the car when I visit, say, The Texas Roadhouse, (one of my favorite joints), where I will often sit AT THE BAR while having lunch.

   

   Hmmm....

[Moderndayedison]

I just follow the common sense rule.

   If a place has metal detectors, security guards

   or bouncers patting down patrons before they

   enter, then I don't patronize that establishment.

   

   And in cases where I don't have much choice

   (like courthouses) I simply leave it locked

   in my vehicle, usually locked in a thick steel

   toolbox in the back of my truck that is comparable

   to a mid-grade gun safe.

   

   Otherwise, it's out of sight and out of mind

   and I don't have a problem with carrying it.

   

   In fact...I feel naked without it.

   Even with clothes on.

   

   --MDE

   

   .

[chopprs]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.....

[scion]

"Also, I'm curious about what the difference is between firearms and guns...."

   

   R. Lee Ermey explains the difference well...

   

   

   Boycott!  They have a right to post their sign, we have a right to boycott because of it.  Let them know the sign carries a price to pay.

[dwalk]

I heard Toby Keith's a 'Blue-dog Democrat'. I guess that's something like a RINO -sort of a mixture of both right ideas and lefty-moonbat or other types of wrong  ideas. Nobody's perfect, and that certainly includes yours truly. I like some of Toby Keith's country-western songs, others I may like the tune but disagree with some of the ideas in the lyrics -he seems to have quite a few songs glorifying drinking (and sex -quite possibly of the extra-marital sort, which ultimately undermines family and society).

   

    Exercising Second Amendment rights to bear arms certainly does call for sobriety. I like Vegasgeorge's idea. It is like the NRA's basic ideas too, isn't it? Organize good responsible gun-owners for more effectiveness in a society that has gone adrift in some very wrong directions.

[sirbarkalot]

Coopercrdkey:

   

   The rule is as follows: (paraphrased)  Florida CWP is not for carry in a bar.  In a restaurant that has a portion that is restaurant, even if you can order beer or other alcohol with your food, you are in a restaurant and the CW is OK.  If and when you move to the "lounge" or "bar" portion of the restaurant, where the main focus it to drink, even if you can also order and eat food in that section, you cannot legally carry with your CWP.  So, if you go into your favorite steak house and are going to sit at the bar, have a few drinks, and order dinner, you cannot carry there.  If you are going with wife, or family and friends and are going to be seated for dinner other than in the bar or lounge, even if you have a few drinks, you CAN carry.  That said, as ADVICE coming from an old retired police person, if you are going to drink alcohol AT ALL, I would not be carrying the gun.

   

   IF you are involved in a shooting, and have alcohol in your blood, this is going to make it tougher to justify, as ANY alcohol inhibits judgement and this is a known fact to law enforcement.   Alcohol and guns do not mix.

   

   Just friendly advice.

   

   Barky

[chopprs]

WOW, and you bustmy ballz about New York?!?!?!

    I have lunch at the bar two or three times a week. Of course I only have one beer, occasionally two but Miller lights and that is all. If I have to shoot someone, too bad for them. At least I am alive while I am in court!!!!!  

   Hard to defend yourself if you are a corpse ya know........

   

   This all boils down to my number one rule of carry, NO ONES BUSINESS BUT MINE WHAT IS ON MY PERSON!!!

[tranquilo]

"Hard to defend yourself if you are a corpse....."  That says it all!!

[bud]

Anyone that drinks Miller Light can't be all bad!

   The Judge would say----case dismissed.

[redhawk4]

"I've seen him shooting selective fire weapons at an old truck with Ted Nugent on the outdoor channel"

   

   Someone needs to tell Ted - he'll put him straight.

[mayvik]

My understanding of CO law is the same.  If you go to Applebees and sit at the bar, no CCW.  If you sit at a table, CCW is OK and you can drink as long as you are not "impaired".  

   

   Now we get into internet lawyer speculation land...there seems to be no case law of any kind defining what "impaired" actually means.  It seems to be generally assumed that the same levels as used for autos is appropriate.  Of course, I'm not sure that "Have you had anything to drink?" and a breathalyzer are SOP after a shooting like they are at an auto accident.  If you're not reeking of booze, slurring, or otherwise obviously drunktarded, that's probably a reasonable definition of "impaired" too: do you give the officers good reason to test you?  Then you get into the fuzzy area of whether or not you can be forced to take a breath/blood test, etc.  If you're smart and just don't say anything to the police until you have your lawyer there, there's another opportunity to avoid the question entirely.

   

   I generally assume it falls into the "treat me like an adult and I'll behave like an adult" theory of responsibility, just like cars and booze.  Both can be deadly if misused, and have life-ruining consequences.  If I want to have a glass of wine with my dinner, it's well within my tolerance level to do so and not worry about making horrible decisions.  If I'm going out to get smashed with the homies, I'm taking cab fare in lieu of a sidearm.

[ephraim]

I would rather have 12 judge me, than have 6 carry me!

[ephraim]

By the way, I can't imagine anyone confusing Toby Keith with a singer, and I believe his political expertise is even more marginal than his singing. If that is possible! He is a good reason for a mute button on the TV. So not going in his bar and grill is no great loss.

[ricart]

Interesting news re Fl carry laws.  As my CHL is good in Fla and a lot of other states, guess we should brush up on the laws when in another state.  

   In Texas, any place making over 50% of their money on booze, beer included,  must post a sign at the front so stating that the place is off limits to Firearms.  There is by law, certain rules for the size, wording, and so on to go on the sign.  The problem is, if the business does not post the sign and you get caught, it's your baby, a very heavy fine and possible prison.  The fine for not posting the sign is small.  So, in Texas, when in doubt, don't carry.

[coopercdrkey]

Sir Barky-

   

   Sorry to take so long to say "thanks!".  I've been at the Gainesville VA all day for my annual checkup.  AOK, thank God.

   

   That was my interpretation precisely.  In fact, having a good amount of time between labs and appointment, I had lunch, at the bar, at Texas Roadhouse.  My mag mini was secured in my car safe, as we both know to be correct.

   

   Oh, and my lunchtime beverage of choice?  O'Doules non-alcohol beer.

[mayvik]

"In Texas, any place making over 50% of their money on booze, beer included, must post a sign at the front so stating that the place is off limits to Firearms."

   

   That seems like a convoluted way of prohibiting carry in any establishment that serves.  Since you as a citizen have no idea what their revenue stream is based on, you're taking risk of it being 50.1% booze if there's no sign.  Not to mention places that charge 10 bucks for a mixed drink and 6 for a sandwich.  Whoever passed that law needs a kick in the junk.

   

   How often do you do the income base?  Monthly? Yearly?  How often do they have to update the signage?

[umpire]

Bert,

   

    Would that Outlet Mall , have a Bass Pro Shop, about 2 doors down from Toby K`s place ?

   I also avoid that particular Bar and Grill.

[gunfitrip]

Actually the 51% sign law in Texas is a "no bars" carry.  You can go into a restaurant that sells alcohol with no problem.  Just not a place that makes most the money selling booze.  That's a "bar".

[mayvik]

How is the typical peon supposed to know if an establishment makes more or less than 51% of their money on booze sales??  How about a nice steakhouse with a $100 porterhouse where the cheapest bottle of wine is $250?  Is that now an invalid place to carry because they happened to sell a few more bottles than steaks in the last reporting period, however long that is?

[ricart]

I spent over 30 years enforcing Texas laws.  Texas has always had some of the most vague laws one can imagine.  The Texas travel/carry law being one of the worse.  Finally, some of our brighter law makers passed a law intended to make legal to carry a gun in your car as long as it was concealed.  However, the old law was kept on the books, (Chap 46, Penal code) and some cities are going only by that law, not the new one.  The laws re knives are even more vague.  A Bowie knife is illegal by the code.  No body, and I mean no body can give tell me what the actual Bowie knife looked like.   In our police academy, we had a sign saying simply, "good judgement, common sense". I wish more of Texas' lawmakers used both.

[coopercdrkey]

Off topic, but here's a good "Bar Law" story-

   

   I closed  deal for a lot of money-  biggest one in my life to date- and I wanted to go have one drink in celebration.  I went into a brand new Victoria Station restaurant, (do they even have those any more?), to sit at the bar.  There was a beautiful bar, all right, but no bar stools, and the whole length of this beautiful bar was lined with ferns.

   

   I asked the waitress what was the deal, and she said that the local ordinance prohibited a bar, and that drinks could only be served at the table during dinner.

   

   Don't you think the developer and franchisee might have known that prior to construction?

[bert]

Yep Bass Pro Shop is but a few doors down can't figure it out most people that go in B.P.S. are into outdoor sports. Wonder how much this hurts Toby K's place in lost sales not being allowed to carry in there. Not all but a good portion of outdoor folks like country music.

[coopercdrkey]

Man!

   

   Download a copy of your State's CCW Regs, and determine if "Toby" or your State Legislators are responsible!

   

   You do realize, I hope, that if your decision is to boycott the facility  that the owner/franchisee is going to suffer-  Not Toby-  Right ?!?!

   

   How about boycotting Bass Pro Shops for not serving burgers and beer

   

   Jeez...

[clipper1]

...For what it's worth; ANYONE that exercises their 2nd.Ammendment Rights in regard to c/carry Do's & Don'ts, has the legal (& moral) responsibility to read & understand ALL the statuates of The issuing State & All the statuates of States They will visit..That, with a common sense attitude, should keep You out of the Slammer & off a slab..

   Also: Try BUSCH N.A..Much better & cheaper than O'DOULES..(MILLER LITE, should NOT be used in the same sentence as BEER)...

[clipper1]

...For what it's worth; ANYONE that exercises their 2nd.Ammendment Rights in regard to c/carry Do's & Don'ts, has the legal (& moral) responsibility to read & understand ALL the statuates of The issuing State & All the statuates of States They will visit..That, with a common sense attitude, should keep You out of the Slammer & off a slab..

   Also: Try BUSCH N.A..Much better & cheaper than O'DOULES..(MILLER LITE, should NOT be used in the same sentence as BEER)...

[chopprs]

Hey, Hey, what's wrong with ML??? It is great when yer all hot and sweaty mowing the lawn!

   

   Tastes Great and Less Filling Too!  

   

   

   

   BTW, Toby has a new album called "Bullets in The Gun" What gives with him not liking guns? I have no clue cuz I don't really do country music but he has been on FOX news and now he is on Huckabee and he sure is giving the idea that he likes guns. I don't get it.......

[coopercdrkey]

I bet ol' Toby enjoys his firearms, (and his gun rights), as much as we all do.  I also bet that he has absolutely nothing to say about whether you can concealed carry in some restaurant/bar that only bears his name because they paid for the right to do so.

   

   If you research the Michigan CCW Reg's and discover that this particular franchisee has a personal policy which is more restrictive than State Law, that's a much different story!

   

   Now we take our burger 'n beer business down the road, partner...

   

   BTW, Old Milwaukee NA is as good as any, and costs WAY less.

[clipper1]

...Down to the last 3 cans of B/NA..And being an absolute paragon of financial responsibility(CHEAP), It is incumbent upon Me to test-hop OM/NA..A good buddy(ex-cop from BOCA)& the quintecential essance of CHEAP,says You're right...

[pezo]

In michigan you cannot have a a blood alcohol content over .02 percent for carrying a firearm. Its .05 percent for driving. And you sign away your right to refuse a breathalizer when you obtain a ccw and while carrying. If I recall.