Do you carry a NAA Mini for Self Defense?

[OLD and GRUMPY]

If it's a  1.5/8"  mini how happy could you look? I showed up to the range with mini. On the left was something that looked like a Barret. On the right a .357 Black hawk. Good thing I don't need to over compensate! When the gun panic was at its worst half the guys were not buying guns. They were buying "extenders".

[Dinadan]

For me, the most surprising thing about this poll is how few folks are carrying a Mini for a back up gun. I expected that at least a many folks would carry a Mini as a BUG as carry a Mini as a primary gun. I am wondering if part of it is the way I worded the questions.

[cfsharry]

Dinadan,
Your wording could not have been clearer.
By the by, have to get you to try a quality semi-auto.  I think your earlier negative experience with a low quality piece may have biased you against a much better self defense weapon than a single action revolver.  I realize you are a romantic and the revolver resonates for that reason and I understand fully how you feel.  Just saying don't rule out a semi; faster to get into action than a single action, faster to reload and owning one will make you a more well rounded dude greatly admired by all who know you.

[NOTL21]

To me, a mini would be my pocketknife style tool to use en route to a .45 on my way to the safe area with a shotgun and .233/.308 rifles.

Rarely could I imagine myself in a situation where a 3 inch compact .45 or even .380 (e.g. Sig 238) would not work.

I usually choose to avoid areas where I cannot carry.  I went to a Cavs game when the Ferguson verdict was announced Monday and was sorry to have locked up my firearm in the car.  Metal detectors would not allow anything to pass at the gates. 

Happy I was (like Yoda) when I was back in the car and armed on the way home.

I was with three friends who were younger and bigger than me so I felt there was safety in numbers.

Cavs cleaned up (finally) so anyone wanting the free 1/4 pounder and Chalupa giveaways can have my ticket! 

[grayelky]

My "rule of thumb" is, always carry one more gun than you think you will need. If I don't think I will need a gun, then 2 will usually suffice: a mini and a gun. If where I am heading, or what I will be doing makes carrying a gun seem like a danged good idea, then it becomes a matter of caliber and number of rounds sel-discussion. Those time also will find at least a 12 gauge in the car, and sometimes a rifle to keep it from getting lonely. (I am happy to report since I retired, those occasions have been rare.)

About 4 years ago, GA politicians re-wrote our carry law. Now, it is a "Concealed Weapons" law. It addresses impact weapons and bladed weapons. I like it. While I carry a pocket knife, it is never considered a weapon (by me). Until I run out of bullets.

[Shovel-ready project]

Nastruck,
Can you give me the dimensions of the BW with the pug grip? That looks like the perfect combination for me. Thanks.

[Dinadan]

SNIP
Just saying don't rule out a semi; faster to get into action than a single action, faster to reload and owning one will make you a more well rounded dude greatly admired by all who know you.

You are very persuasive, Harry! Who knows, maybe a .380 will be in my future.

[jstanfield103]

  I use to carry a mini for self defense but after the LC9S came out I only carry that. I like the mini's and have owned several and still own the Mini Master. But prefer a higher caliber to carry.

[nastruck]

Shovel as near as I can figure it is 5 1/2" long and 2 7/8" high. Does make for a sweet combo!!!!

[Perrien]

I am amazed that every time this comes up there is such a large percentage of folks feeling a need to carry for self defense but unwilling to recognize the inadequacy of the .22 for said purpose.

In 2013 there were 367.9 violent crimes per 100k people which is about a 0.37% chance of being involved. Very often, simply having a gun and displaying it was enough to dissuade many attacks but I couldn't find any good estimates of how often that happened.

Going on this study: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
The caliber with the highest % of a one stop shot was 59% with the 44 magnum. The lowest was 30% with a  25ACP.

So of the .37% chance of needing a gun and actually having to fire it, if you had a 25ACP you'd have a .37% * 30% = .11% of a one stop shot.
With a 44 magnum you'd have a .37% * 59% = .22%

So carrying a gun that is likely to be 2-3 times the size and weight increases my chances from 0.11% to 0.22%. Twice as much but given the probabilities involved, I'm willing to take my chances. I'm MUCH more likely to benefit from wearing a helmet to protect against a slip and fall than to invest that extra weight into a higher caliber and less convenient gun.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

@ Perrien
It says you have only one post. Welcome! We need people who can do math.I learned my goesintas  at the Jethro Bodine school of cyphering.Often need help.

[cwlongshot]

I have honestly and literally carried one everyday since buying my first back in 1991! Its been mostly a second, but sometimes a primary.

CW

[Dinadan]

Perrien - welcome to the forum. You make some good points, especially about the probability that measures other than carrying a weapon can do more to enhance safety than upping the caliber of a handgun. I would say that situational alertness is the best self defense. When I studied martial arts under a retired LEO, he emphasized that being aware of what is happening around you and avoiding trouble is a lot better than being able to kick or punch a bad guy.

On the other hand, Cfsharry's point is real too. As you say, the probability of a person needing to use a gun for self defense is tiny. But if it happens, then having double the stopping power will be quite important.

[Shovel-ready project]

Shovel as near as I can figure it is 5 1/2" long and 2 7/8" high. Does make for a sweet combo!!!!

Thanks! That does look like a great combo. Probably a bit more powerful than a mini at only a small extra length. I am sold.

[sopsax]

Perrien: Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the interesting link/article. I recall the Marshal-Sanow books - I have them at home.

I've met both of them, albeit briefly, at an International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) convention several years ago and I've always admired their work, even if critics found flaws in their methodology. Your report was also a good read.

When I attended the FBI National Academy (115th Session, 1978) I did a paper on shooting accuracy by police officers in field situations. Admittedly, it was not a scientific survey because I didn't have total access to any data, but among the departments I queried across the nation (and those that responded), the hit-ratio was one hit in every seven shots fired. That seemed to mirror what others had discovered over the years.

Having seen the results of many shootings over the years, I know there is no miracle-bullet and that while one suspect or victim may be immediately stopped by a .22 rimfire, the next suspect-victim may survive seven solid hits with a .45ACP, etc. I've seen that with my own eyes.

I think there are too many factors that go into a defensive shooting to claim any one factor is THE factor in all shootings. But subjectively, I'd rather carry something more substantial than a .22rimfire. Would that suffice if I didn't have anything else? Maybe, maybe not, and for sure I would use a .22rf (whatever I had) if necessary. I just personally feel more comfortable (and more confident - which has been shown to be important in officer-safety issues) in larger (but not monstrous) handguns. I own several small caliber handguns - 22LR, .25ACP, .32 ACP, but only carry one of the .32A CP's as a back-up to my 9MM or .38SPL.

Since retiring from law enforcement, I've only had to use my handgun once to discourage some idiot from attacking me with a hammer while stopped at a traffic light. He menaced, approached, then quickly retreated when I pointed my J-frame at him. sopsax

[cfsharry]

Perrien,
First off, welcome to the forum.
Somehow you've managed to take two number sets that have nothing to do with one another and have created a strange formula leading to a conclusion that is unwarranted.
If the chance of being involved in a violent crime is only .37%, (a number greatly influenced by where you live), many would ask "why carry at all".  If, like most here, you feel the need to carry then your second number set becomes the driver of your decision what to carry.
If you look at the numbers, energy of various cartridges, you will come to the same conclusion the FBI did after exhaustive study, 'bigger really is better'.
My belief, as stated earlier, is that if you can easily and comfortably carry a larger caliber hangun than a .22 and don't, you've made a decision not well thought through. It is, however, soley your decision to make.

[Uncle_Lee]

Perrien,
Welcome to the forum.
It is good to have another poster that can type long detailed posts that are full of facts.

[JRobyn]

Shovel as near as I can figure it is 5 1/2" long and 2 7/8" high. Does make for a sweet combo!!!!

Thanks! That does look like a great combo. Probably a bit more powerful than a mini at only a small extra length. I am sold.

If you buy a LC9, just be aware that there is the original LC9 model (hammer-fired) and the new LC9S (striker-fired).  Externally, they are identical, but the trigger on the original is VERY long and deep-breaking.  The new LC9S has a much shorter travel and is lighter.  I just sold my LC9 and bought a new LC9S.  Worlds better trigger!

- Jay

[sopsax]

Jay - that is true from what I've seen. I sold my LC9 for that very reason - and replaced it with a S&W M&P Shield. The Smith is just a tad bigger (I compared the LC9 and the S&W Shield side-by-side), but the striker-fired trigger on the Smith is vastly superior to the LC9. I would have bought the new LC9S if they were available in California, which they are not. sopsax

[RogueTS1]

Shovel as near as I can figure it is 5 1/2" long and 2 7/8" high. Does make for a sweet combo!!!!

Thanks! That does look like a great combo. Probably a bit more powerful than a mini at only a small extra length. I am sold.

If you buy a LC9, just be aware that there is the original LC9 model (hammer-fired) and the new LC9S (striker-fired).  Externally, they are identical, but the trigger on the original is VERY long and deep-breaking.  The new LC9S has a much shorter travel and is lighter.  I just sold my LC9 and bought a new LC9S.  Worlds better trigger!

- Jay

Why sell the older one? Why not just buy the new one and keep the older hammer fired one in the safe? More guns is always better!

[Perrien]

Perrien,
First off, welcome to the forum.
Somehow you've managed to take two number sets that have nothing to do with one another and have created a strange formula leading to a conclusion that is unwarranted.
If the chance of being involved in a violent crime is only .37%, (a number greatly influenced by where you live), many would ask "why carry at all".

Many thanks for all the welcomes. I'm definitely a gun noob but have been doing a lot of reading and research for a few months now.

I don't think the number sets were completely unrelated. I'll simplify the numbers here but the main gist of my point is the same.

Yes, where you live and work can drastically change the likelihood of being a victim but let's go with 1% (again, just to simplify).Let's say 50% of all violent attacks are stopped just by reaching for or brandishing a gun. If someone is 15' away and threatening to beat you with a bat, just reaching for or pointing a gun may very well stop the threat. At this point, caliber makes no difference. Heck, it could be a gun shaped lighter and that would work just as well.

So carrying a gun shaped object already reduces the threat by half. Down to .5%.

Now let's say another half of the remain attacks will be stopped just by a single shot. The bang, the sting, the knowing you're serious is enough to end it.

Carrying an actual gun reduces the risk to .25%.

Only now does caliber start to become a factor. Let's say a .22 will end 30% of determined attacks and a .45 will end 50%.

So the .22 carriers risk is down to about .16% while the .45 carrier is down to .12%.

If you accept the numbers here as relatively accurate, carrying a gun that is 2-3 times the size and weight will net you a .04% better chance of thwarting a potential violent attack tomorrow.

If you're fully comfortable with carrying a .380, 9mm, .45 or whatever then fantastic, good for you. But the gun community seems to dump on lower calibers pretty hard as being completely worthless for defense, won't stop any attacks, you're better off throwing the gun at them than shooting it, etc. And as far as I can tell, those kinds of sentiments are 95% bovine excrement. Yes, you MAY get attacked by a PCP freak tomorrow who's heck bent on killing you and only a .45 will save your life but you're MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely to choke on a chicken sandwich during lunch because you didn't bother to chew the recommended 20 times and die.

[Dinadan]

Perrien - Just curious, after doing all the research - what do you carry? Any chance of a photo of your gear? Any particular ammo you use? Photos?

Here is a photo of what I have carried a couple of days in the past week. SP101 in the concealment vest, Sidewinder in the front right trouser pocket, and LR in the right boot. Yep, all at the same time. Normally I just carry the Sidewinder and LR, but it seems a shame to waste a good cold snap where I wear enough clothes to carry the .357: it is the gun I originally bought to carry, but gave up on for normal days.

[Perrien]

Perrien - Just curious, after doing all the research - what do you carry?

I actually don't carry yet. Will be applying for CCW in the not too distant future but haven't yet. At the moment I have a SCCY CPX-2 and a Phoenix Arms .22 for cheap, fun. I'm really eyeing a NAA mini with the folding holster and perhaps a Taurus 738.

The SCCY is about the smallest 9mm auto out there (close to, not the smallest) and in my eyes the chance of needing it are small enough that carrying it day to day is too much. I live in a relatively safe area, work in an office environment, have not once been in a situation where a gun would have helped in my near 40 years so while I MAY get into a scratch in the future, the chances of it are fairly slim. If/when I do get a CCW, I will almost certainly be a situational carrier. Carrying the NAA at times and the Taurus when on road trips, etc.

I have no issue if you want to carry a 357 or whatever you want, whatever you feel safe with and like. I'm just confused at the general consensus that if you don't carry at least a 380 or 9mm then you're a fool. Cops don't carry .22 but their day to day situation is HUGELY different from mine. If you work/live on the bad side of town and want to carry larger or higher capacity, go for it. But if someone has decided that a .22 fits the bill for them, maybe their situation is different than yours.

[cfsharry]

Perrien
I have been shooting and killing critters for nearly fifty-five years and have a fair understanding as to the capability of more than a few guns both long and short. When I was new to guns and hunting I listened much and said little. It is the best way to learn. You are soon able to seperate the BS'rs from those who know what they were talking about.
Fuzzy math aside, you carry whatever gun you want. If the need arises, and you have to do more than wave it around in hopes the other will run away, having an adequate firearm may save your life or an inadequate one cost it.
By the by, police types do not carry larger caliber handguns because of a greater likelyhood of needing one but because, if one is needed, they have enough gun to get the job done.

[Dinadan]

Perrien - Just curious, after doing all the research - what do you carry?

I actually don't carry yet. Will be applying for CCW in the not too distant future but haven't yet. At the moment I have a SCCY CPX-2 and a Phoenix Arms .22 for cheap, fun. I'm really eyeing a NAA mini with the folding holster and perhaps a Taurus 738.
SNIP
I'm just confused at the general consensus that if you don't carry at least a 380 or 9mm then you're a fool. Cops don't carry .22 but their day to day situation is HUGELY different from mine. If you work/live on the bad side of town and want to carry larger or higher capacity, go for it. But if someone has decided that a .22 fits the bill for them, maybe their situation is different than yours.

As of right now 73% of the respondents to this poll sometimes or normally carry a Mini as primary self defense gun. So I do not see where your general consensus remark is coming from. Must be from another forum, certainly not this one.

Show us a photo of your SCCY CPX-2. I do not recognize the name. I always like to see photos of members weapons, Minis or otherwise. No offense intended, but that also helps us sort out folks who really have guns from trolls.

[Perrien]

As of right now 73% of the respondents to this poll sometimes or normally carry a Mini as primary self defense gun. So I do not see where your general consensus remark is coming from. Must be from another forum, certainly not this one.

Good point, my apologies for the over-generalization. I'm on a couple other discussion boards and such and that's where the .22 dismissals usually are.

Show us a photo of your SCCY CPX-2. I do not recognize the name. I always like to see photos of members weapons, Minis or otherwise. No offense intended, but that also helps us sort out folks who really have guns from trolls.

I'm at work, will try and post something later. They're a relatively new company from FL. Guns getting (for the most part) very good reviews. I've certainly enjoyed it so far.

[sopsax]

Perrien: I enjoyed your reports and don't want to engage in nit-picking your numbers. Stats are stats and that's all. In MY world, there were/are ALWAYS circumstances that were never planned-for. . . a circumstance where the "stats" failed to predict what actually happened.

That leads me to comment about what you wrote about situational carrying. In 40 years you've never needed a handgun - and that's fine. But believe me, you will NEVER be able to predict when you will need one - in your own home, church, a neighborhood party, your kid's school Christmas program - where ever you go, there is always a chance that you will need a handgun.

I always think about that beauty parlor in Seal Beach, CA a couple of years ago when an estranged husband came in for his ex - and ended up killing seven or so innocent folks who would never think that a ladies' beauty parlor would be a crime scene.

If you decide BEFOREHAND that you won't need one, that will be the time when you wish you had not made a choice like that. If you are going to carry, carry and don't try to second-guess future events. THAT will get you killed. Never happened to me? Right . . . sopsax

[RogueTS1]

There are not too many on this board that will state a .22 is not enough gun. I often carry a 6.35mm or a .22LR as my BUG and feel well heeled enough.

When you carry a gun no gun can ever be small enough; when you need a gun no gun can be big enough. Hence we must find a middle ground we can be comfortable with.

PS: if one cannot physically handle/outrun someone they just shot center mass with six or so rounds of .22 or some similar small caliber then they have bigger problems on their plate.

[red14]

Dinaden, What caliber is that Ruger SP 101?  I have a 327, but rarely shoot more than a 32 long.

I have messed up hands, can't take much recoil, and only shoot S/A because I can't shoot a heavy finger-pull.  My Shorty will be my only weapon.  It will just have to do.  Since my physical skills have been deteriorating, my situational awareness has grown proportionally.

[Dinadan]

Dinaden, What caliber is that Ruger SP 101?  I have a 327, but rarely shoot more than a 32 long.

I have messed up hands, can't take much recoil, and only shoot S/A because I can't shoot a heavy finger-pull.  My Shorty will be my only weapon.  It will just have to do.  Since my physical skills have been deteriorating, my situational awareness has grown proportionally.

Red - my SP101 is a .357. I have shot a some .357 rounds out of it, but I mostly stick to .38 Special. I practice both double action and single action with it, but of course I am a lot more accurate shooting single action. My daughter and I put almost a hundred rounds through it on Friday; I notice that there is still powder residue on the cylinder - I will clean this afternoon.

Earlier this year I bought a Single Six chambered for .32 H&R Magnum. I have never even bought any magnum ammo for it. I got it for plinking mainly, and .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long are fun and a lot cheaper than magnums. Very easy on the hands, recoil wise.

If you mean to carry your Mini Short, I think you will want to put bigger grips on it. The grips on the LR and Short are just tiny, very hard to get a grip on unless your hands are small. Note that I have boot grips on my LR for that reason.

[Bigbird48]

I never leave home without my Black Jack Talo 22 mag in my pocket. I hardly know its there and it will do the job if ever needed.

[cwlongshot]

Its a small easily concealed revolver in a sub powered caliber... IF you need to use it USE IT AS INTENDED. Your attacker should never even see it, Its what I like to call a "Get off me gun"  I have used it on about a dozen deer... a 40g Maggie to the brain even from a 1" barrel at contact distances is instant lights out.  Its NOT a "shoot out" gun. Stop thinking like your in a movie.


CW

[boots]

I love my BW and carry it every day. It serves sometimes as my only carry but also as back up to something larger.  I farm  so the BW is mostly used to dispense rabbits. Yes it will hit a rabbit inside 30'.  When I mow or on the tractor I also carry either  a Ruger Single Six, or a 44 Revolver. The BW is back-up when I leave the farm.The point is that the BW is always with me and is a useful tool.

[Bigbird48]

Are you telling us you shoot deer with a NAA 22 mini mag .First of I think thats BS and second it illegal

Its a small easily concealed revolver in a sub powered caliber... IF you need to use it USE IT AS INTENDED. Your attacker should never even see it, Its what I like to call a "Get off me gun"  I have used it on about a dozen deer... a 40g Maggie to the brain even from a 1" barrel at contact distances is instant lights out.  Its NOT a "shoot out" gun. Stop thinking like your in a movie.


CW

[red14]

Dinaden, What caliber is that Ruger SP 101?  I have a 327, but rarely shoot more than a 32 long.

I have messed up hands, can't take much recoil, and only shoot S/A because I can't shoot a heavy finger-pull.  My Shorty will be my only weapon.  It will just have to do.  Since my physical skills have been deteriorating, my situational awareness has grown proportionally.

Red - my SP101 is a .357. I have shot a some .357 rounds out of it, but I mostly stick to .38 Special. I practice both double action and single action with it, but of course I am a lot more accurate shooting single action. My daughter and I put almost a hundred rounds through it on Friday; I notice that there is still powder residue on the cylinder - I will clean this afternoon.

Earlier this year I bought a Single Six chambered for .32 H&R Magnum. I have never even bought any magnum ammo for it. I got it for plinking mainly, and .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long are fun and a lot cheaper than magnums. Very easy on the hands, recoil wise.

If you mean to carry your Mini Short, I think you will want to put bigger grips on it. The grips on the LR and Short are just tiny, very hard to get a grip on unless your hands are small. Note that I have boot grips on my LR for that reason.

I use the over sized rubber grips (offered by NAA) for my other two NAAs, so I ordered the Rubber Cobblestone Grip, and hope it makes it easier to hold.  The factory will send them in stead of the wooden ones, those are just too slippery.