.32 acp cobra derringer

[luke1]

Okay...I got a weird liking for the underappreciated .32acp cartridge.  The cobra derringer looks pretty cool and doesn't cost a lot of money (red flag)?  In any case, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this little, reasonably priced derringer, are they worth getting?

Or should I just hope for the day that we get a .32acp mini, or two shot derringer from NAA?...

.any thoughts would be appreciated.

[OV-1D]

  Two shot anything except BIG caliber seems to be something that could get you in more trouble than not . Save your money till more or larger comes along . Only an opinion that you asked for . 

[bill_deshivs]

I have one. As far as the cheap derringers go, these are the biggest caliber in the smallest frame.
It might make a good back up or jacket pocket gun. The safety works better left-handed.
They are die cast zinc. Barrels are steel lined.

[RogueTS1]

I have one in 9mm and it seems well made enough. The caliber of most can be changed very easily with a barrel change. Thus your .32 could be changed to 9mm or even .38 special in about 1 minute if you liked.

[bleak_window]

I feel that NAA has made the 2-shot derringer obsolete.  5 shots in a smaller package.  Yes, you can get a derringer that shoots .38, 9mm, .45, etc but they tend to be as large and heavy as a J-frame, or so small that shooting them is painful. 

[RogueTS1]

The two shot limit and their somewhat awkwardness is the reason it just sits in the vault. I much prefer, as you stated, the Minis with five shots or an automatic with six or more shots. They are a salute to our western heritage though and they do work.

On the other hand, to play devils advocate; I would hazard to bet that one could get off more rounds with the derringer in a given amount of time than with the Mini due to the ease of reloading . So something to think about.

[doc_stadig]

I've got several derringers, most are Cobra, I've got a Bond, and an American, I've seen several people that have complained about the Cobras, and they all use the same basic design of firing. The actions are identical across the board from the $450 Bond to the $125 Cobra, I understand that the barrel composition are different, but these aren't designed for high volume firing, and your hand will thank you if you don't, especially if you're using some of the bigger calibers, like the .410/.45 LC. I used to do Cowboy Re-enacting and a derringer was kind of part of the uniform for that era. I don't currently own a .32 but I'd have no problem buying one from Cobra, you'll know right away if there were a problem and if your dealer is fairly reputable he will back it. I've never had one not go hang except for a rimfire which my dealer replaced for me and sent the defective one back for a replacement firing pin. I purchased a great many firearms and sundry from him over the years and we had a good repoire..


Doc

[bill_deshivs]

No, you can't change your .32 derringer to 9mm or 38 Special. The 32 is on a smaller frame that was made in .22 LR, .22 magnum, .25 ACP, and .32 ACP.

[RogueTS1]

No, you can't change your .32 derringer to 9mm or 38 Special. The 32 is on a smaller frame that was made in .22 LR, .22 magnum, .25 ACP, and .32 ACP.

May be; just going off the top of my head. They make their "Big Bore" Derringers which can be caliber converted to any of the other "Big Bore" Derringer" calibers with the simple barrel change I suggested.

PS: I like the Cobra derringers.

[Bigbird48]

I have a Cobra in 38 cal that I bought from Impact Arm last year. When I got it I took it to the range and shot it, the bottom barrel fired the top did not. I tried it a couple times.  I called and emailed Impact arms several time and never got a reply the same with cobra, they never answer the phone and never answered my emails. I threw the gun in a draw over a year ago.

[OV-1D]

I have a Cobra in 38 cal that I bought from Impact Arm last year. When I got it I took it to the range and shot it, the bottom barrel fired the top did not. I tried it a couple times.  I called and emailed Impact arms several time and never got a reply the same with cobra, they never answer the phone and never answered my emails. I threw the gun in a draw over a year ago.

  That's really good to know , NO RESPONCE , NO BUY .

[Bigbird48]

2 questions
Does anyone know if both the firing pins are the same length on the cobra big bore derringers ?
Does anyone know the allen wrench size needed to remove the firing pins on the cobra big bore derringers ?

[Bigbird48]

I'm sorry I got hooked up in this here in naa products I wasn't thinking. Maybe we should move this thread to the other guns not NAA forum.

[brian_pdll]

Top and bottom barrels combined mean muzzle energies
Winchester 71 gr FMJ varied from two different derringers 760 fps or 91 ft lbs (+ and/or minus 2.5 ft lbs) (Box rated at 905 fps 129 ft lbs from a 4" barrel).
Remington 71 gr (71.5 gr Actual) FMJ averages 838.63 fps or 111.64 ft lbs (Box rated at 905 fps 129 ft lbs from a 4" barrel)

Fiocchi 73 gr (73.4 gr actual) FMJ averages 811.71 fps or 107.36 ft lbs (Box rated at 980-1000 fps 155-162 ft lbs from a 4" barrel)

Fiocchi and Remington both have nearly the same amount of recoil.

Shooting the 00 Buck at 2.5 gr to 2.6 gr of Bullseye at 0.80" OAL cartridges, with some dry firing (about 10 times) broke the selector (the part of the hammer that strikes firing pins) after nearly 300 semi-hot rounds after the first 400, 70-85 ft lb rounds, and 150 .22 LR.
The selector is the least durable part of the Cobra derringer. Dry firing creates wear in the selector making fracture likely with fewer rounds than without. The selector is not cheap and costs $12.00 plus nearly $10.00 shipping from www.cobrapistols.net.
If you wear to replace the selector every 300 shots at 2.55 gr of Bullseye, Fioccchi 73 gr or Remington 71 gr, the cost per for this reload would be around $0.22 per round or $11.00 per 50 rounds after taxes, still less than cost factory FMJ ammo nowadays costing nearly a whopping $0.58 per round.

I recommend "00" buck 54 gr .33" lead round ball sized at .311" with 1.9-2.4 gr max of Alliant Bullseye (BE) powder OAL at 0.80-0.81" after light crimp and "0" Buck 47 gr .32" lead round ball seated unsized in unflared cases at 2.1-2.5 gr max of Bullseye OAL at 0.76" after light crimp.

Get 00 buckshot from https://www.acmebullet.com

Reload #1 "47 gr Lead Wadcutter": 47.6 gr "0" Buck .32" Lead round ball unsized, carefully seated in unflared cases with 2.4 gr of Bullseye Powder, lightly crimped, ending up with wadcutter noses and shaved lead rings. Achieves 825.16 fps or 71.95 ft ft lbs at 2.4 gr of BE. Outperforms any .25 ACP+P hollow point round and will achieve ~13" of unclothed 10% ballistics gel penetration with no expansion or ~11" through 4-layer denim covered 10% ballistics gel without expansion.
This shot more to point of aim than factory FMJ within 50 yards, had just the right amount of recoil making it the best choice for general use, fastest to load for and cartridges were easier to extract compared to standard pressure .32 ACP factory cartridges and hotter reloads. This was my first reload excellent for any .308-.314 bore gun.
2.4 gr "0" Buck Felt like a 32 S&W short or 22 WMR, outperform any 25 ACP+P defensive round from a 2" to 3" barrel. Maximum for 32 S&W short revolvers.

Reload #2: 54 gr '00' Buck .33" lead round ball sized to .311" lead round nose loaded with 2.0 gr Alliant Bullseye (BE) powder cartridge overall length at ~0.80" averages 745.57 fps or 66.64 ft lbs muzzle energy.
Will out perform any standard pressure 25 ACP 35 to 45 gr JHP cartridge, has a 23.9% larger starting diameter, 20% to 54.3% more weight, no deformation and shot more accurately than factory .32 ACP FMJ with less recoil.
Will not cycle a semi-auto, perfect for 32 S&W Short break action revolvers and old derringers. Good choice for plinking, novice shooters, small game. Will penetrate ~11.6" of unclothed 10% ballistics gel or 9.6" of 4-layer denim covered 10% ballistics gel.

Reload #3: Loading the 47 gr "0" Buck the same way as reload #2 at 2.5 gr of Bullseye achieved 854.7 fps or 76.22 ft lbs and will achieve ~13.5" of unclothed 10% ballistics gel penetration with no expansion, equal to ~11.5" through 4-layer denim covered 10% ballistics gel. Would outperform any 25 ACP+P 35-45 gr JHP round and compare to the best 22 WMR JHP from a 2" to 2.4" barrel
Loads that exceed 2.6 gr don't get much faster than 2.5 gr with the 47 gr 0 buck and tend to split and/or burn the reloaded cases.
This shot as accurately as factory FMJ within 50 yards, had a light amount of recoil making it the best choice for plinking, small game, coyote, fastest to load for and cartridges were easier to extract compared to standard factory cartridges.

Reload #4: 54 gr '00' Buck .33" lead round ball sized to .311" lead round nose loaded with 2.3 gr Alliant Bullseye (BE) powder cartridge overall length at ~0.80" averages 805.4 fps or 77.77 ft lbs, would get ~14" of unclothed 10% ballistics gel penetration without expansion, equal to 12" of 4-layer denin covered 10% ballistics gel penetration without expansion.
Cases were easier to extract than standard factory rounds and great general purpose round. Would outperform any 25 ACP+P 35-45 gr JHP round and the best 22 WMR JHP from a 2" to 2.4" barrel. Shot as accurately as standard factory FMJ within 75 yards.

Reload #5: 54 gr '00' Buck .33" lead round ball sized to .311" lead round nose loaded upside down with the flat sprue base loaded upward, resembling a wadcutter, easier to load than round nose side up at 2.3 gr Bullseye at 0.78" OAL.
The muzzle energy was 828.5 fps or 82.29 ft lbs.
Shot as accurately as factory FMJ within 50 yards and cartridges were easy to extact. Feels like some of the hottest 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR) cartridges and performs better than any 22 WMR or 25 ACP+P JHP cartridge out of this derringer's barrel length due to the 35-55% heavier bullet and 38.8% wider starting diameter.

Reload #6 (Use in more durable .32 ACP guns): At 0.80" overall length, the 54 gr 00 buck with 2.5 gr BE load will average 877.6 fps or 92.32 ft lbs.
Can be loaded as a wadcutter like reload #5.
Feels like Winchester 71 gr Flat-Point FMJ white box with about the same accuracy. Would expect to get ~15.6" of unclothed 10% ballistics gel penetration without expansion or 13.6" of 4-layer denim covered 10% ballistics gel without expansion.
Left a lot of leading after 100 rounds, no problem out of the short range derringer, about as difficult to extract as the Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ (tightest that was allowable) and don't recommend shooting this reload Cobra or Davis derringers if you want the selector to last. The derringer is likely best suited for rounds that are at or below 90 ft lbs.

Reload #7: At 0.845" OAL the 00 buck w/ 2.5 gr BE = 842 fps ~85 ft lbs

Reload #8 (Not recommended): At 0.80" overall length, the 54 gr 00 buck with 2.55 gr BE (between 2.5 and 2.6 gr) load will average 909.5 fps and 99.16 ft lbs. A lot of leading, difficult to extract from chambers, this was the reload that caused the selector fracture and don't recommend shooting.

None of these reloads at or less than 2.5 gr of Bullseye bulge or expand cases more than standard pressure factory ammo. Loads at or over 2.5 gr were tight from derringer chambers and caused the selector to fracture after 300, 99+ ft lb rounds after 400 mid to light plinking rounds.

The Cobra .32 ACP derringer alloy is actually made by International Die Cast in Gardena, CA, just recently engraved on 2014 and newer derringers, so it should be made with ZAMAK-3 zinc alloy (better than 355 aluminum alloy), yield alloy casting with yield point around 30,200 psi, and taking no credit for the .045" stainless steel liner, plug into the formula above gives 30,200 x .119/.215 = 16,715.34884 psi allowable, for a safety factor of only 1.29076.

The derringer frame is good enough for all standard pressure rounds up to Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ and Remington 71 gr FMJ Box muzzle energy rated less than 130 ft lbs. The Cobra recommends factory 128 ft lb rated cartridge brands like Federal American Eagle, CCI, Blazer, and PMC for safe handling. Max allowable cartridge: 128 x 1.29076 = 165.12 ft lbs. Don't shoot any round hotter than Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ and Remington 71 gr FMJ.

The Cobra 32 ACP derringer's sized .311" diameter 54 gr '00' buck lead pellets can go through three and four tenths to all four of 5/8 inch of dry hard pine and redwood wood planks (cheap scrap wood) (about 2.325 to 2.4+ inches) that are wood glued all shot within five feet away from the muzzle. The '00' buck pellets and FMJ bullets that went through were not recovered.

At 640 fps (~49.1 ft lbs), '00' buck .311" caliber shotgun slug shaped bullets" can go though 1.25 inches of those pine wood glued planks and embed in the third one halfway. None of the pellets were deformed.

The sized to .311" 54 gr lead .33" '00' Buck penetration is better than unsized .33" lead round ball because of their lower surface area and short Makarov bullet or shotgun slug shape with blunt bases.

All 32 ACP 71 gr FMJ's and sized to .311" caliber 54 gr '00' buck at 85+ ft lbs can penetrate four of those pine planks (2.4"+ of wood glued pine boards or about 1.2" of Douglas fir) every time within five feet of the muzzle as long as they don't keyhole upon entry.

[brian_pdll]

Here are some more photos of the Cobra 32 ACP derringer tests. '0' and '00' buck reloads were very accurate out of the derringer within 50 yards. All '00' buck reloads that were approximately 80-103 ft lbs felt like standard pressure factory 60-65 gr JHP and Winchester 71 gr FMJ at most with FMJ accuracy and penetration depths in gel and wood.
Remington 71 gr round nose FMJ was the most potent of the standard pressure factory rounds and absolutely no problems with all loads in the derringer.

The derringer's recoil with this caliber felt like shooting a .38 Special wadcutter out of a steel j-frame up to 9mm x 18mm Makarov semi-auto pistol with standard FMJ. Semi-hot 73 gr Fiocchi FMJ felt like 9mm x 18mm Makarov sized in a Makarov semi-auto pistol, Winchester 71 gr FMJ-Flat point and felt like .38 Spec standard pressure wadcutter from a steel j-frame (very manageable)

Winchester 71 gr FMJ ammo tend to be ~18.4 ft lbs weaker than what they are supposed to be rated at, equal to Remington's 71 gr FMJ. However, all of the listed rounds from the derringer are still satisfying, velocities and terminal ballistics are comparable to those from a Beretta Tomcat 2.4" barrel and a NAA Guardian 2.25" barrel.

55 gr Glaser Blue safety slugs in 32 ACP are rated at 1100 fps and 147 ft lbs from a 4" barrel (they are not +P).

Too slow to shoot and reload for SHTF or against more than one attacker with the will to kill. I recommend using any 128 ft lb or lower standard pressure factory 71 gr FMJ because they keyhole, do more damage than sized 54 gr lead '00' Buck due to higher muzzle energy with good penetration for protection.

Sized 54 gr lead "00" Buck with 2.4 gr of Bullseye powder at 0.80" OAL would be a respectable second choice in this caliber because it gets FMJ-like penetration depths and capable of pin point accuracy, since hollow points don't get enough penetration in ballistics gel. 54 gr lead "00" buck slugs get the best efficiency of powder burn (more fps/muzzle energy) when seated/crimped just barely below the round nose and top shoulder of the slugs.
The picture with the '00' buck to .311" 32 ACP cartridge has the right seating depth. Ideal overall length 0.81". Mine were averaging 0.84" (0.02-0.025" too long) at first test and did not reach their potential velocity/energy compared to the second trial at the minimum ~0.80" OAL at the second test.
The lowest OAL ~0.80" +/- 0.01 had more complete combustion and consistent muzzle velocities than the longer OAL ~0.84".

Surprisingly, at two inches away from the muzzle, all 32 ACP 71 gr FMJ and 54 gr sized '00' buck loaded with 2.4 or 2.5 gr of Alliant Bullseye powder will go through two redwood planks that are 5/8" thick each and a 10.5" 10% ballistics gel block with ease from the Cobra 32 ACP derringer.

47.6 gr '0' buck .32 round ball from the derringer would normally go through 2" of the hard wood with 2.5 gr BE powder diagonally from 3 ft away.
Recovered weight: 46.3 gr
From three feet fired at a 90 degree angle, my Crosman Vantage NP .177 air rifle with a 7.9 gr pointed lead pellet can go through one of four planks and embed in the second barely flush with it's face. The 7.9 gr Crosman pointed pellets from the Crosman Vantage NP @ 960 fps penetrate 7" of bare 10% ballistics gel.

[brian_pdll]

640 fps 49.1 ft lbs '00' buck 54 gr "mini-slug" picture and gel block.

01/24/2015 Kinetic bullet puller results on "Remington 71 gr FMJ" box rated at "129 ft lbs 905 fps"

Remington 71 gr FMJ's have an actual weight of 71.5 gr and are loaded with 2.4 gr of an unknown powder brand that looks like Alliant Bullseye.
The Remington 71.5 gr FMJ bullet would make the average muzzle energy 111.63496 ft lbs instead of 110.855 ft lbs as I wrote on my chart 01/18/2015. I assumed the bullet would weigh 71.0 gr. The Remington 71 gr FMJ that I recovered in the gel block I shot into also weighed 71.5 gr.
The Cobra 32 ACP Derringers work well as long as you don't dry fire them (dry firing damages the selector, the top and bottom firing pin striker, especially with rimfire calibers), and do mods to the derringer's internal components.

Keep the main spring (hammer spring) at full length as made by factory. I had many misfires from cutting my main spring (hammer spring) 0.5 in shorter than factory length at home attempting to lower the hammer spring weight to 6.25 lbs and stretching it by to the original size (70% misfire from this my foolish mod), so I had to buy another spring from Cobrapistols.net. Cobra can repair their guns free as long as you don't completely remove the powder coating from the gun and not break from hot loads or reloads.

[heyjoe]

i have a davis 32 acp  derringer since 2003, the predecessor of the cobra derringer and i havent had any problems with it.  you have to realize its an up close and personal gun as in arms distance and not expect a range gun.

[RogueTS1]

Very nice work there brian pdll. I love my Cobra Derringer.

[Polkadot Carl]

I have a Davis 32 in black [well mostly, it is worn around the edges] that I bought in Alamogordo between '94-'98.  I've only shot it a couple of times, but it always worked.  The handle design digs in when you shoot and I thought it was easy to control.  My brother used it to kill a pitbull that was locked down on his chow.  I still keep it in my desk drawer, just in case.  But, the Earl in 22WMR sits next to it and I never bother to pick up the derringer any more.

[brian_pdll]

Here are some more results and what to expect with your Cobra Single-Action .32 ACP derringer.
With 2.5 gr of Bullseye powder and seating the 54 gr '00' buck 0.015" deeper to an overall length of ~0.80" the average was 877.555 fps and 92.32 ft lbs.
With 2.55 gr (not 2.5 gr shown on the written note) Bullseye powder ~0.80" overall length they average 909.5 fps and 99.16 ft lbs.

Zamak-3 alloy (yield strength 30,200 psi) is 10.596% more durable than the blued aircraft 355 aluminum alloy (yield strength ~27,000 psi) and is less brittle. The derringer design is a lot more durable than the blued anodized aluminum Beretta Tomcat's.

Remington 71 gr FMJ and Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ shot through leaded bores feel concernedly harder on the derringer frame and likely reduce their longevity more than any non +P Winchester, PPU, and Federal American Eagle brand ammo, which are fine to shoot through leaded bores since they never average over 100 ft lbs of muzzle energy from the standard frame, 2.4" barrel Cobra 32 ACP derringer.
Winchester 71 gr, PPU 71 gr, Magtech 71 gr, and Federal American Eagle 71 gr FMJ ammo are the ideal standard muzzle energy rounds on the market for use in the 32 ACP alloy frame guns. Between 750.5-800 fps @ 88.78-100.88 ft lbs averaging ~94.83 ft lbs from the derringer's ~2.375" barrel.

PMC 71 gr, CCI (Blazer aluminum case) 71 gr, Remington 71 gr (71.5 gr), and Fiocchi 73 gr (73.4 gr) FMJs are among the semi-hot, somewhat stout feeling choices and get between 800-841 fps @ 100.88-111.64 ft lbs averaging ~106.26 ft lbs from the derringer's ~2.375" barrel.
Cartridges averaging with less than 100 ft lbs of muzzle energy from the derringer's ~2.375" barrel are ideal for the standard frame Cobra 32 ACP derringer's lifespan.

Never read or heard about any Cobra Enterprises derringers have fractured or bent frames from extensive use.
The standard width slide, anodized aluminum alloy framed 2.4" barrel Beretta Tomcat in the 32 ACP have a tendency to get frame fractures within two hundred to six hundred 125-129 ft lbs box rated w/4" barrel rounds that of muzzle energy.
Never use Cor-Bon, Sellier & Bellot, and Buffalo Bore ammunition in these and in alloy, non +P guns.
The derringer's selector will break after 300 semi-hot rounds after the first 400, 70-85 ft lb rounds, and 150 .22 LR the frame not have changed at all from use.