Problem With Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammo - Experts Needed

[mndoug]

I took my newly arrived Gold Dot .22 Mag ammo to the range yesterday, with the purpose of seeing if shooting it from my Pug felt any different from regular .22 Mag ammo (FYI, I was at an indoor range, so no penetration testing was possible.)

   

   Prior to loading the Gold Dot, I finished off a box of Hornady V-Max, firing about a dozen rounds in somewhat rapid succession. Then I moved to the Gold Dot.

   

   First shot went fine, felt about normal.  But when I went to cock the hammer for shot number two, the cylinder would not turn unless I manually forced it.  I recognized the issue right away ... the cylinder was "binding" - the base of the ammo was rubbing against the rear wall of the cylinder cavity, keeping it from turning freely!

   

   Thinking perhaps the Gold Dot ammo was longer or something, I held up a Gold Dot and a Federal round, side-by-side, and I noticed that the Gold Dot had a slightly more "rounded" edge on its base. I assumed this difference in shape wouldn't  allow it to seat as deeply as other rounds on my pistol.

   

   I did some photography to try and document the issue - just to show the rest of you that I'm not crazy (well, I mean about this particular issue.)  While doing that, I also noticed quite a difference in case length.

   

   Below you'll see first the full, original side-by-side photo - the silver case is the Gold Dot, the gold case is a Hornady.  The next pic is the same photo, enlarged and enhanced to show the differences as best I could.  

   

   NOW... this is where the issue became even more squirrely...

   

   Before posting this, I thought I'd make sure the problem isn't with just ONE box of Gold Dot ammo.  I opened the second box, and loaded the Pug with rounds from it.

   

   Surprise - no problem!  The cylinder turned freely as it should.  Hmmm.  I went back to box I shot yesterday, and loaded five rounds from IT.  No problem!

   

   QUESTION: Do you think the cylinder, having heated up from shooting a dozen other rounds prior to the Gold Dot, had expanded somehow that the differently shaped Gold Dot ammo bound on the cylinder wall?    If not, what else could cause the problem?

   

   

   

   

[ajr]

I guess what you ask is possible, I don't know. I was thinking that maybe there was a buildup of firing residue in the cylinder ahead of the shorter cases that had been fired.  

   

   Then the longer case of the Gold Dot ammo might have wedged against it slightly, keeping it from seating completely.  

   

   Maybe it was cleared away due to the process of extracting the cartridges. Just a thought.

   

   Andy

[kywaterdog]

I have noticed ocassional binding with other brands in my Wasp after shooting 25-30 rds in quick succession.  I thought it might be from the cylinder heating up.

[chopprs]

Rimfire ammunition of any caliber is notoriously inconsistent by design. The better it is the leesser of such but still so. I think you just had a bad round. I have shot a bunch of the new Gold Dot through my Pug with no issue.

[Dinadan]

MnDoug - I had that happen with Winchester SuperX magnums. One round out of a box  

   of fifty caused the cylinder to bind. I just hope it does not happen in a self defense  

   situation. I have shot hundreds of LR and shorts without a binding incident.

[silvershooter]

Sounds like you answered your own question...all the ammo from two boxes functioned fine except one round; so either a dud bullet or more likely the cylinder was binding due to lack of lubrication on the cylinder pin and/or excessive heat from the +V's. I'm no expert though, glad the rest worked good for you.

[grayelky]

I do not think 2 cylinders of .22 mag would heat the steel enough to cause a problem. If you were able to handle the cylinder in a normal fashion while loading, I am confident heat build-up can be eliminated. In the enlarged photo, the length seems to make a difference. Once we take into consideration it is enlarged, I think the actual difference is going to be moot.

   

   Ajr mentions the firing residue build up as a potential problem. If the chambers were clean when you started shooting, I would hate to think 10 or 15 rounds would create enough of a dirty residue to cause a problem. If the chambers were in need of a "bath", then maybe.

   

   You don't mention what your course of action was after discovering the problem. Were you able to fire other rounds from the same box? If so, then it would seem the one round you fired was a "fluke" and may have contained a little too much powder, causing the case to set back much more so than normal, creating the problem. There is always the chance the bullet was ever so slightly over sized, or too heavy. There are a number of things that can contribute to too much chamber pressure, including the ambient air temperature. If I were guessing, I would say too much pressure caused the case set back problem. I just noticed the crimp on the Hornady is seemingly much tighter than the pictured Gold Dot round. If a particular case is crimped too tight, it can cause the excessive pressure you mentioned.

   

   Anytime you are wanting to check ammo to see if box "A" is the problem, vs box "B", ALWAYS check the lot number. It will be stamped on the box some where, typically inside the flap. If the ammo is from the same lot, then the chances of all of it being exactly the same are extremely high.

   

   I would look over the remaining rounds. If they all appear to be equally crimped, and of equal length, and I saw nothing else that would cause me concern, I would shoot a few more and re-evaluate to see if I wanted to shoot the rest of the box. I am betting all will go as it should. In the odd event another problem arises. I would contact the Gold Dot bullet folks and share my observations and concerns. They may want the unfired portion of the box back, and trade you a coupon good for a full box at your local gun shop.

[tom]

One round is one too many.  I would make sure that they didn't bind the cylinder before I trusted my life to them.  It only takes a few seconds to cock and release on five rounds.

   

   The steel would not expand because of the heat of firing.  It's not remotely hot enough to have any effect.

[mndoug]

Thanks for all the ideas, guys.

   

   I may have not described the situation clearly:  The problem wasn't just with one round of the Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammo - the cylinder bound on every round after the initial shot.  I couldn't advance the cylinder except by manually assisting it.

   

   These were the same rounds that functioned perfectly this morning (didn't fire them - just spun the cylinder.)  The only difference was that the pistol had cooled off.  I hadn't cleaned it or anything.  That's why I thought it must be heat expansion - that was the only variable I can think of between the two tries with the ammo.

   

   You can see why I can't figure it out!

[chopprs]

I have sat down with several different styles of Minis and literally fired hundreds of rounds through them in the same sitting. I have fired thousands through my Mini-Master. They got very hot as well as quite filthy but never ceased to function. The only FTF I have ever had with one was with the non-recommended ammo before they made the recommendation.

[Dinadan]

Mndoug - query, did you remove the cylinder and reload with Gold Dot after

   the initial problem? Maybe some kind of residue around the cylinder pin was  

   forcing the cylinder back a little further than usual. If that were the case  

   then removing and reinserting the cylinder might have got rid of the problem.

[heyjoe]

did you check the cylinder gap, if its too tight and it gets dirty you could well get binding of the cylinder

[mndoug]

DINADAN --> No, I didn't do that... that would have been a very good idea.  

   

   HEYJOE --> I haven't checked the gap, other than to see that it's loose enough to let the cylinder turn.  Do you know what the gap should be?

[grayelky]

If memory serves, barrel/cylinder gap on full growed-size revolvers is .002-.006. On the Minis, I do not know. At least I don't remember reading it anywhere - yet.

[mndoug]

Gray, thanks.  I think I'll make another trip to the range and try out some of these suggestions... will let everyone know what transpires.

[kingd3001]

will if i might add mndoung never had that issue with my mini mag i shoot 50 rounds of cci maxi mags +v and 20 or so round of winchester superx jhp in it yesterday no problems with my cylinder bending up at all