Gun show find this morning- Everyone needs one when you take the NAA to the range

[Dinadan]

Zippo - I do not think you will change Chopprs mind with arrays of facts or  

   with logic. Maybe a piece of hickory applied to a body part would do it ..

[chopprs]

..oooh, am I gonna git a SPANKIN' ??

   

   Honestly, no one knows everything and I would invite anyone that would like to change my mind. I have been under the impression for like thirty years that the 10-22 and mini-14 "Standard" stocks are Birchwood. I may be wrong, it would not be the first nor the last time!  

    Of course the color of a stock will not denote what kind of wood it is alone as we can purchase stain in any color imaginable.

   

   .....it does seem though, that I may not be the only one under this impression!

   

   http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/RGR091-1.html">http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/RGR091-1.html

   

   http://www.impactguns.com/ruger-1022-semi-auto-rifle-birch-stock-1103-736676011032.aspx">http://www.impactguns.com/ruger-1022-semi-auto-rifle-birch-stock-1103-736676011032.aspx

   

   http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=274263670">http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=274263670

   

   http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=150&t=919379">http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=150&t=919379

   

   As I originally stated, the Ruger Gunstock shown in the first pic is made of Birch! At this point I see no evidence to change my observation/statement other than someone that merely stated me to be incorrect

   

   I do have a question though. I am unfamiliar with what a "Vernier" box is. I am aware of what a "Vernier" Caliper is. I have several and use them alsomst every day. Is there a similarity or a connection in some way? Will someone enlighten me please?

[louiethelump]

Everyone knows the base stocks are Birch, and have been since the first few years they were made.  The sporter stocks are walnut, and there is not comaprison.  They are just messin with you.  When you see that uneven stain sprayed on under the clear coat like that stock is, they HAVE to know it is a birch stock..............

   

   Relax Chopprs...........  they just messing with ya.......

   

   

   Birch:

   

   

   

   

   Walnut:

   

   

   

   

   Deluxe walnut:

   

   

[chopprs]

....awe maaaaan, and I wuz thinkin' I wuzza gonna git a switch across ma butt!

   

   

   But what is a "Vernier Box"??

[zippovarga]

Cheap base wood and laminated or vernier wood glued to the top. Like most things these days. It "looks" like solid (insert wood type here_________) but is actually a thin vernier over the cheap stuff.  

   

   I'll buy the "birch" stock information as true. I do, however, think the older stocks (Birch or not) are much nicer in appearance than the current muddy brown stained sticks of wood. The figuring on the older stock, even if it's a staining trick, still makes that stock look 100 times better than those you get today on the base model 10-22s.  

   

   THIS is a perfect example of a box covered with wood verniers.

   

   

   

   Note.....there is no end grain on the sides of the box The wood runs the length of the box. If the top was a solid piece of wood, you would see end grain instead of long grain. The top has a piece of wood vernier covering MDF (medium density fiberboard)The top and bottom of this box both have a thin vernier on them which is covering the MDF. Saves $$$ and MOST are none the wiser.  

   

   There is plenty of supporting sales everywhere on the take off stocks from these 10-22s that supports that they are made of Birch. The one I have that is natural colored is new (within 3 years) and has little to no character to the actual grain of the wood. The other 10-22 stock was made in 1983. Even if it isn't walnut, it's at least a better looking piece of Birch wood. IMHO of course.

   

   Bottom line, I'm not arguing that Birch has been used for many years on these stocks. I'm not even arguing that the older stock I have is not Walnut, as I thought. But it is purdier!! lol

[chopprs]

AHA!!!

   I do understand now. You mean VENEER

   

   I do know what a wood VENEER is. thanx!

   

   My Engineering background was speeking to me. I thought that it was some kind of box made to exacting specifications....

   

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_veneer

   

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernier_scale">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernier_scale

[heyjoe]

are you sure its not wood veneer instead of vernier?

[zippovarga]

Thanks for being respectful in your approach to correct my mistake Joe. Yes, I meant veneer.

[chopprs]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful man. I thought it was some kinda really kewl box! "Vernier" is an exacting scale.....I was thinking that I found something I would have to have!

   

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernier_scale">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernier_scale

[bud]

The hinge almost looks like it's case harden.

[gunr]

I haven't used vernier calipers for over 30 years. Started using Mitutoyo dials in the eighties, then the same brand digitals in the nineties. Now you can buy a set of cheap digital calipers from Harbor Freight for ten bucks when they are on sale. They seem to be reasonably accurate. Would not use them, or anything else  but a micrometer for measuring bullets though.

   The digital world has changed everything, almost!

[zippovarga]

No worries Chopp buddy. IF there were such a thing, what would its use be?? A vernier box that is. I do have vernier calipers in boxes...lol. Does that count? Again, no skin off my back bro. It's all good. I didn't figure you meant any disrespect, but with the definitions thrown in there, it was a little questionable..lol.

[zippovarga]

Gunr, I still use the tried and true analog calipers and micrometers of yesteryear, although I have had the digital calipers in the past. They're nice as long as they're good quality like the Mitutoyo. The Harbor Freight digitals are as you said, "reasonably accurate." But for ball park, they'll work in a pinch.

[bbgun]

I knew a pig farmer once, his name was Vernier.

[gunr]

Zip,

   Ball park, pinch hitter, What team do you play for?

   

   Actuually, I have a pair of Hornady Dials (analog) that are in great shape. I use them all the time. Sometimes seeing where the dial is, is quicker! I remember in the late seventies, I think, I bought a couple of digital watches, hated them, never had another one!

   

   

   What part of the Hoosier state are you from. I was born and raised there.

[zippovarga]

Yankees AAA Club!!!!!!! If I had a choice and still had my throwing arm..lol. Most of my calipers, mics and dial indicators are Starrett. I've always had great performance out of them.  

   

   In the home of Garfield the cat! Muncie! It's funny you mention watches. I never liked the digital watches either. Still don't! lol  

   

   What part of the state were you raised in? I've lived in Indianapolis, Anderson, Kokomo and finally settled into Muncie about 16 years ago.

[gunr]

Zip,

   Indianapolis, Went to Broad Ripple high. Lot of fond memories. My dad took me quail and rabbit hunting, He wasn't a big gun fan, but had this old side by side 12, and gave me my first shotgun, a single .410

   Those were the days.

   

   Sounds like you might have been a machinist?

[zippovarga]

Actually a Machinery Repairman in the Navy. I've always been mechanically inclined, just not always inclined to be mechanical...lol. Took my trade to the automotive industry for 20 years and worked my self into an early retirement in 2003 when I broke my back. Broke it again in 2008 and fortunately I'm still walking thanks to modern medicine. I'm a little rusty in my machining skills and mainly just do small tasks now. Used to make just about anything I needed tool wise and have a fair arsenal of home made things to help a person out in the shop. Started my metal working in high school and just loved the field. So I stuck with it. A little drafting and wood working classes also have helped along the way.  

   

   (just to ribb Chopp) It's the English language that I have yet to master...lol.  

   

   I started with a Colt Frontier Scout and a Ruger 10-22 and 1500 of my Uncles acres to hunt freely on down in Kentucky. I'd collect returnable coke and pepsi bottles, turn them in at the local 5 and 10 and pick up a box or two of 22 ammo just about every other day. As you said....."Those WERE the Days!!" Being 8 years old and the clerk holding back 22 rounds if he saw his supply getting low so I was sure to have my bullets for my 2-3 day hikes deep into my Uncles property. Found his Moonshine Still sights and stopped counting after about the 20th location he had set up. Dry County of course. The local sheriff would bring barrel beer in the trunk of his cruiser in trade for some of my Uncles white lightning and Peach Brandy. At 8-11 years old, it wasn't uncommon to have a tall cold glass of Malt while the adults enjoyed the high octane stuff and fresh fried chicken from my Grand Mothers (Grannys) pressure cooker and my Uncles Hush Puppies and Aunties coleslaw and cousins smoked bacon and baked beans. But my favorite meal was the rewards of my all night trips to the pond to fill up the bucket with frogs for frogs leg fries the next day. Crawdad stew was another staple meal, as there was a stream just down the lane where we would set traps. Fed from the land was the way of life down there. To be young again and in a more care free world. I'd give my right arm for those times again (left handed...lol.)

   

   Thanks for the trip down memory lane bro! Hadn't thought about those days in years.

[zippovarga]

Oh.......Sorry about the thread drift Steve!! Sometimes they're fun though. Hope you don't mind.

[heyjoe]

how did you break your back 2x?

   

   im editing this to add that i just remembered that you might have told me why once already and if so i apologize  in advance. i have CRS syndrome.

[coinchop]

Zip.

    good drift, love it!

[45flint]

Hey it goes where it goes.  

   Steve

[zippovarga]

I've got CRS too! lol....The first time I broke my back, the cause was unknown. I broke Thoracic vertebra number 10. It didn't separate, which was a God send, but it has caused the onset of Scoliosis and it did damage the discs above and below the vertebra. Second was Lumbar 5 and that was a fluke. Had a guy helping me remove an over grown Iris that I tossed in my ornamental pond on a dare that it would die. It not only lived, but doubles in size every season. Anyhow, the guy helping me lift the root ball dropped his side and SNAP...my Mother, the guy helping me and I all heard it and instantly I was in horrific pain. Dumb ass me, walked around with this pain for 4 weeks before I woke up one morning and couldn't use my left leg. I had severed most of the nerves to that leg due to bone fragments falling into the nerve bed from the broken vertebra. The Spinal Cord stops around the Lumbar 1-2 area, so it being L5, I was fortunate. Went to the emergency room and had emergency surgery to attempt to repair the nerves to the leg. The Neuro Surgeon was able to graft about half of the nerves to known good nerves and I had to learn how to use my left leg again. The normal brain signals made my leg do all kinds of cool party tricks, but forbid me to walk. After about 6 months I was back on my feet, but with 60% of my leg being paralyzed. I have to wear either above the ankle lace up boots or a brace to keep my ankle rigid. Before realizing the need for ankle support I took a fall that tore the hell out of a few of the tendons in my left shoulder (left handed) so, another operation to repair the damage and another year of recovery there. Since then (mid 2009) I have had a few more spine related operations to help with the pain and remove bone spurs at the facet part of the vertebra. These parts of the vertebra surround the nerves and the calcium (arthritis) build up nicks tendons and nerves. I have titanium pieces and an implanted bionic stimulator with 220 programmable receptors which helps interrupt the pain signals going from my spinal cord and nerves to the receptors in my brain. It's about 50% effective, but even at that level, I'll take any relief I can. Beyond my skeletal problems, I am healthy as a horse. I've adapted my life to accommodate my limitations. I've gone from restoring and building hot rods and Harleys and doing Kitchens and Baths to my little Garden Tractors, vintage small engine collection, firearm collecting and polishing once in a while. I'm slow getting around, but determined.  

   

   Thanks for your blessing with the thread drift Steve! Some people get a little upset over things like that so I wanted to be sure all was well.

[heyjoe]

youve been through the wringer. freaky way to break your back. freaky in the sense of not expected. i have 14 out of 23 disks in my spine that are herniated and a couple of more bulging but never fractured my spine.

[zippovarga]

Emailed Ruger....Results of the Ruger Stock Material are confirmed with Ruger on the stock they made in 1983. The following is a direct copy of my message to them and their reply.  

   

   

   Dear Sean,  

   

        

   Thank you for using the Ruger On-Line Customer Support Request Form.

   

   This e-mail is in response to your question or comment of   03/10/2012  

   Request No: 130952

   

   Comment / question:  

   

   I recently bought a second hand wood stock for my 10/22 Ruger and it is stamped  

   in the barrel well that it was manufactured in 1983. Can you tell me what kind  

   of wood was used at that time for the standard 10/22 carbine? It's beautifully  

   figured and it looks like walnut, but I want to be certain. The stocks grain and  

   figuring is as different as night and day to the current Birch stocks, so any  

   insight would be greatly appreciated.  

   

   Kind Regards,

   

   Sean

   

   Response:  

   The earlier stocks were walnut.  

   

   If you need further information, please visit our website at http://www.ruger.com">www.ruger.com or  

   contact us at:

   

   Revolvers, shotguns, rifles, 10/22 Charger Pistol:  (603) 865-2442

   Pistols:  (928) 778-6555

   Serial Number History Information:  (603) 865-2424

   

   Please note:  This e-mail is sent from a notification-only address that cannot  

   accept incoming e-mail.  Please do not reply to this message.

   

   Sincerely,

   Ruger Firearms

   

   Now....far be it for me to question Chopps authority. So, Chopps....you say it's Birch. Would you call Ruger please and let them know that they don't know what the heck they made the 1983 stocks out of please? I don't like getting the wrong information from a company that I own a number of firearms from who has made over 7 million 10/22s. Sheesh...you would think a company had a clue. I may never buy another Ruger so long as I live. In fact, I'm just going to take a torch to the whole dang lot of them. If they can't do something as easy as identify wood type from their archives then how can I trust them to remember to put all the parts in their guns? You've probably saved me hundreds, if not thousands of wasted dollars Chopps ole buddy!!! I owe ya!!!

[zippovarga]

HeyJoe...Back problems SUCK!! But if you have a good pain specialist and a SMART Orthopedic Doctor, you can go a long ways. My bones don't convert calcium like they should and my vertebra look like swiss cheese. It's a condition known as Schmorel's Nodes. What happens is after the discs degenerate to a certain point, the tougher outer layer of the disc forms a sort of suction cup effect against the two vertebra they share and pockets of bone are slowly reduced to nothing but weak walled and fragile boney masses that once looked like vertebra. This weakens the bone structure so badly, that even something as simple as stepping in a 6 inch hole could jar your back enough to fracture a vertebra. Can't lift anything over 10lbs with out taking a real risk of doing more damage. Lots of fun I tell ya!! lol

[heyjoe]

more fun than a barrel of monkeys...ha

[glenn]

Wow !   All of a sudden there's a big hollow log sound in this thread.   Sorta like a Walnut log. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot ?

   ~Glenn

[zippovarga]

I noticed that too. It's all good. I'll take Chopps word over a reputable gun manufacturing companies word any day of the week!! What was it he said it was? Was it Balsa wood? Oh well, it doesn't really matter.....We all know that Nubby from PJD can paint fake wood grain on a steel gas tank so that it looks like real wood, so the cat is out of the bag. My "walnut" stock is actually a piece of billet aluminum with Nubbys magic painting skills mimicking Walnut/Birch/Mahogany or Maple, so Chopps is right about it not being Walnut. Can't pull the wool over your eyes Chopps........no sir!!

[lashlarue]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/C5Sam/xmaspresent.jpg">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/C5Sam/xmaspresent.jpg" alt="" />One of several wooden boxes,have another just for ammo, and another for the poker playing side of me.Just havent bothered to take photos.