Does your NAA mini keyhole?

[MikeSSS]

Short, LR, Mag, all types.  Do you get keyholing or not and does it depend on ammo or anything else.

My Short does, sometimes.  Cold days seem worse.

Thanks.

[rhett]

NAA 1 5/8 22 Magnum Conversion, so far I've experienced keyhole issues using Remington SubSonic 22lr only.

[adp3]

Most of the .22LR minis that I have fired keyhole (8 examples) with some ammo.  My two Black Widows shoot straight with WW, Fed, and CCI/Speer ammo in .22 Magnum.  I gave up on the .22LR minis because of the keyholing.  Of course you can send your gun back to the factory for a tweaking so it will shoot straight, but you'd think that a model produced for 2+ decades would have the bugs worked out.  A factory test fire for keyholing instead of just a function-test fire would go a long way to identifying the culprits before they left the factory.  I don't know if it's the short barrel, the crown, the rifling, the bore diameter or a combination of these factors that causes the keyholing.  I still love NAA products and carry the BWs daily.  They have been as reliable as the sunrise.

Best Regards,
ADP3

[ATAShooter]

My 22 mag keyholes with Hornady Critical Defense rounds. Federal Game 50gr HP does fine.

[n9znd]

   My 1 1/8" mini mag keyholed with both cylinders.  The Crown was horrible.    I recrowned the barrel myself and if fixed the problem.   It will do it every once in awhile because of the very short barrel (i Think).      Accuracy was helped alot after the recrowning.    It seemed to have real erractic groups before and now it seems like it groups pretty good.   There is a few fliers but I am sure that is all me.     One thing I notice after the last time I shot it and after cleaning that the trigger REALLY smooth out.   It is better than the BW I had and it had over 500 rounds through it.    Really interested to see  how it shoots the next time out.                 Jim

[MikeSSS]

Crown, yeah, I'll work on mine some and see if it improves. 

The Short is my first NAA Mini, it won't be the last.  So far, I'm loving it.

[45flint]

Can't key holing actually be an advantage for the high powered mags.  Similar increased damage channels of hollow points.  Help possible over penetration.  Isn't rifling required to make a bullet more human?   

[n9znd]

  I think if said Magnum round has enough umph to push it far enough into vital organs it would.    But I think if it hit sideways it takes alot off of the bullet and it will not go in very deep.   I am not a expert, Butt I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last Night.    Jim

[MikeSSS]

Checked for tight barrel bore where the barrel screws into the frame by pushing a lubed .22 pellet through the barrel from the muzzle end.  Nope.  The bore seems tightest near the muzzle, not farther down. 

I did mild crown work, I'll test it soon and post results.

[PJ Garrison]

Can't key holing actually be an advantage for the high powered mags.  Similar increased damage channels of hollow points.  Help possible over penetration.  Isn't rifling required to make a bullet more human?

Keyholing is undesirable when you're shooting a bullet the size of a Tic-Tac.   

Penetration on mousegun rounds is already marginal, so generally you want as much penetration as possible.  This is why many experts suggest using round-nosed bullets for any round weaker than the .380.  The newfangled self-defense rounds in .22 magnum are supposed to expand AND penetrate reliably, but they are the exception, not the rule.

[black_cat]

"Keyholing is undesirable when you're shooting a bullet the size of a Tic-Tac.   "

umm, not necessarily. naa 22lr revolver 1-1/4" doesn't leave any identifiable marks on the bullets it fires. sooooo couple ways to look at it i guess.

it's a pbs and preemptive, ambush, jewelry type weapon.

key holing = not even slightly an issue.

[boone123]

Blackcat.
I assume from your postings that you don't shoot much, and know very little about guns and shooting. Do I detect a lot of hearsay?
Do you even have any guns? Have you ever shot a gun that keyhold the bullets? If you did, where did the bullets hit. I bet not where you where you were aiming. I think you are very confused when it come to firearms, and might want to learn some more about them
before you continue with your quest to present yourself as an expert.
Short and sweet, your a fake!

[oldguy]

In my previous range postings, I reported trouble ejecting casings, split casings and possible keyholing with my SW WMR cylinder.
Based on my latest trip to the range I have the following observations:
Keyholing does occur.
Cartridge brand makes a difference.
Target was at seven yards. Reviewing photos, I believe it is clear some rounds are tumbling.
The Winchester Dynapoint (least expensive) was the worst. The cases also deform more than the CCI. Winchester also produced large amount of gritty soot.
After cleaning the SW I inspected the spent casings, both Winchester and CCI. The Winchester casing from this session did not show splits but all were misshaped to the point they would not seat in the cylinder so the cylinder could be closed. The CCI also had some bulges but most CCI casings would seat in the cylinder so it could close.
Once this famine of ammunition resolves itself, I intend to try as many other types WMR cartridges as I can. NAA may have some adjusting to do, too.
How much improvement you can get with the short barrel?

[bud]

With my Pug, some shots would keyhole, some wouldn't. Seemed liked the more I shot, the dirtier the gun was, the more it would keyhole.  Cleaned the gun, it wouldn't keyhole for several shots.

[boone123]

Oldguy. If it were mine I would contact NAA. Looks like none of the bullets  hit the paper complety straight. Some way worse than others. Time for a fix...

[heyjoe]

Blackcat.
I assume from your postings that you don't shoot much, and know very little about guns and shooting. Do I detect a lot of hearsay?
Do you even have any guns? Have you ever shot a gun that keyhold the bullets? If you did, where did the bullets hit. I bet not where you where you were aiming. I think you are very confused when it come to firearms, and might want to learn some more about them
before you continue with your quest to present yourself as an expert.
Short and sweet, your a fake!

didn't you know that gato noire is an expert in every thread in every topic in every category conceivable? he knows everything,  which is why he should leave his mother's basement now before he starts forgetting.

[oldguy]

boone123;

Thanks for input, I'm already waiting for a tech to respond. Jessica referred my email to a tech named Dustin. That was 16 days ago but I know with the SHOT Show they have been busy. I plan on following up Monday, if I can. Time zones make calling difficult.

I think I will email again with the latest photos, that may help.

[boone123]

Bud.
On your Pug , If the crown is not perfct, so as the crud builds up on the end of the bore, it does not build up even, it might influence the stability of the bullet as it leaves the barrel. As the bullet exits the barrel, if the crown is uneven, the pressure can push the bullet off center at that point. I have recrowned some of my NAA guns, and they shoot as good as I can hold them, way farther out than they probably should.
Just a thought..

[PJ Garrison]

Keyholing is undesirable when you're shooting a bullet the size of a Tic-Tac.   

umm, not necessarily. naa 22lr revolver 1-1/4" doesn't leave any identifiable marks on the bullets it fires. sooooo couple ways to look at it i guess.

Unless your revolver came with an unrifled barrel (a rare mistake!), it's going to leave rifling grooves on the bullet.  Certainly, the average NAA customer can expect rifling grooves on his fire bullets.

Still, I'm not quite sure what your point is.  Are you trying to suggest that a smoothbore revolver would allow you to shoot somebody and then flee the scene so that you wouldn't get caught by the police?     Because that's the only thing that I could remotely concieve of that would make any sense in that statement (not that it matters since NAA does not make smoothbore revolvers, in any case).

it's a pbs and preemptive, ambush, jewelry type weapon. 

Given the statement above (about the unidentifiable bullets), and the statement about the NAA minis being "pre-emptive, ambush" weapons I'm starting to wonder about which side of the law you're on.  CCW holders do not ambush or shoot pre-emptively, unless they want to go to jail. 

But even if you were the sort of scum who would shoot people from ambush or fire on them pre-emptively, it doesn't make sense to use a wimpy .22 lr to do the job.  Criminals pick the time and the place of their crimes and they can usually set things up so that they can carry a bigger, more powerful gun when they want to go out and cause mayhem.  By and large, it's the law-abiding folks who carry these little guns, not crooks.

However, I do agree that the NAA minis could be considered jewelry-type weapons.

key holing = not even slightly an issue.

Keyholing is always an issue with small guns.  It's not good for your accuracy, and it limits the bullet's ability to penetrate (something that the less powerful calibers already struggle with).  The only time keyholing is NOT an issue is when you're shooting spherical projectiles.

[oldguy]

I believe black cat thinks he is le matou noir but I suspect he is only chatte noire. However, I've been know to be in error many times....just ask my wife.

I do believe NAA is manufacturing self-defense firearms, not tools for robbers, muggers and assassins.

[heyjoe]

I believe black cat thinks he is le matou noir but I suspect he is only chatte noire.

AVEC PRECISION

[black_cat]

Unless your revolver came with an unrifled barrel (a rare mistake!), it's going to leave rifling grooves on the bullet.  Certainly, the average NAA customer can expect rifling grooves on his fire bullets.

tell that to the balistics expert that testified at my homicide trial.

[black_cat]

it's a pbs and preemptive, ambush, jewelry type weapon. 

Given the statement above (about the unidentifiable bullets), and the statement about the NAA minis being "pre-emptive, ambush" weapons I'm starting to wonder about which side of the law you're on.  CCW holders do not ambush or shoot pre-emptively, unless they want to go to jail.

i'm just saying, it's nice to have options.

5 shot single action in a shootout, ntyvm.

jail or 6 feet under, not a tough choice.

[black_cat]

Keyholing is always an issue with small guns.  It's not good for your accuracy, and it limits the bullet's ability to penetrate (something that the less powerful calibers already struggle with).  The only time keyholing is NOT an issue is when you're shooting spherical projectiles.

accuracy? that's not a front sight, it's a nose hook.

[boone123]

Black cat  --     More peek-a-boo word games.
If you have something to say, git it said.
All of it, or none of it.
Choose one.

[PJ Garrison]

accuracy? that's not a front sight, it's a nose hook. 

The reason I carry a gun for self defense (instead of a knife) is that it allows me to keep my distance from an attacker.  The closer the attacker gets the less control I have over the fight.  And in particular, when I've got a single-action 5-shot revolver, I don't want to get any closer to the badguy than I absolutely have to. 

Having said that, I gree with you that most of the NAA minis do have horrible sights.  Which is the reason I plan on replacing my 1 & 5/8" model with a Black Widow (which has great sights).  With good sights on the gun, the NAA minis are quite capable of accurate fire at longer ranges.  And accuracy helps me maintain a longer distance from the attacker.

[black_cat]

The reason I carry a gun for self defense (instead of a knife) is that it allows me to keep my distance from an attacker.  The closer the attacker gets the less control I have over the fight.  And in particular, when I've got a single-action 5-shot revolver, I don't want to get any closer to the badguy than I absolutely have to.

normally this would be a good point, but not for this weapon. you cant shoot an attacker and run backwards as fast as they can charge you. the whole power of this gun comes from the fact that you can have it drawn first since you can carry it concealed in the palm of your hand already. what's more once u draw it no attacker will know what the hell it is until it's too late for them. your best bet with one of these is to allow an attacker to get close enough that you can hit vital organs or nervous systems at critical locations with a single shot. these types of weapons originally were only 1-2-4 shot weapons for this reason.

note, the further away you are from your attacker when you shoot the harder it will be to get a jury to agree that you had reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death.

just my opinion.

[oldguy]

Black_cat, you're dangerous. Just my opinion; I think you may have a "George Zimmerman Complex."

We are not kids playing good guy vs bad guy with capguns. These are deadly weapons designed to hurt or kill inorder to protect someone. They not designed to intimidate or threaten but to be concealed to be a last ditch effort to save a life.
Just because you have a fire extinguisher does not mean you should look for fires to fight. The best way to win a fight is to avoid it.
It does not read like you learned anything from your homicide trial. What jurisdiction was that in?

[cfsharry]

oldguy,
Would take most of what darkpussy says with a grain of salt. No military service, no hands on knowledge of guns and no killing of a mugger. Only a lonely, friendless, young lad sitting in front of a computer screen, trying to impress the grown ups. Just my opinion of course.

[oldguy]

Cfsharry, I believe you're correct about la chatte noire. My opinion too.

[black_cat]

Black_cat, you're dangerous. Just my opinion; I think you may have a "George Zimmerman Complex."

actually it's much more likly the other way around.

and i think it's funny that you're trying to say that at the same time you're trying to echo seeker's pathetic emasculation prattle

i think she's got u whipped, LMAO

[black_cat]

[Uncle_Lee]

oldguy,
Would take most of what darkpussy says with a grain of salt. No military service, no hands on knowledge of guns and no killing of a mugger. Only a lonely, friendless, young lad sitting in front of a computer screen, trying to impress the grown ups. Just my opinion of course.

I doubt the "lad" part........
The rest, I agree.....