Single Action as Carry

pete_on_the_coast · May-04-12 19:05

Hi everyone, my first post, and probably a subject that has been covered, but . . . . all NAA revolvers (I think this is right) are single action. While this may not be ideal, what are your thoughts on the viability of a SA (NAA or otherwise) as a self defense carry weapon? Are SA revolvers inherently more dependable with rimfire ammo? Does the NAA trigger design create significant risks for unintentional discharge? I'd welcome any discussion along these lines. thanks in advance.

RogueTS1 · May-04-12 19:05

Welcome to the forum.



   Centerfire ammo is always more reliable. With that in mind Single action has been used successfully up until the late 1800s quite successfully.



   As a side note have you ever seen how fast and accurately the SAA shooters can be? Only real drawback is reloads but that can be easily handled with a New York reload.

chopprs · May-04-12 20:05

Welcome to the forum Pete.

   You actually have many questions there and a capacity for quite a long discussion.

   My own personal opinion is that the danger exists in the hands of the user and not the gun itself. If the gun is carried in a holster that covers the trigger and the hammer it will be rather difficult to have an accidental discharge.

   As far as SA for self defense, the NAA guns are more of a last ditch or a something is better than nothing avenue as opposed to a primary weapon. Many do carry these guns as an only or primary carry gun but I seriously doubt anyone is contemplating getting in a full fledged gunfight with just a mini in their pocket.

   ......more of a, "I have an NAA short between my buttcheeks when I am wearing my Speedo" kinda thing.......than "I have two 1911s and a 9mm and two knives and a Desert Eagle under my Parka?!

Hope you have fun here..........we are a bunch of wise azzes!

louiethelump · May-04-12 20:05

Welcome Pete. Which coast are you on?



   I personally don't have a problem with a SA for protection. I have a few NAA mini guns, and at times carry a Ruger Single Six in 32 H&R or even one I have in 45acp with a short barrel and birdshead grips. I have DA revolvers too, but I really ENJOY the single action revolvers, and DA just seem more business like and more of a work tool. (probably comes from being a cop for 28 years and over half of that with a DA revolver on my side)



   A NICE (read:good) thing about the single action is that you are not going to bump or hit the trigger by mistake and fire the gun when you don't want to. The NAA guns are VERY safe if you follow the instructions and put the hammer nose carefully in the safety notch between chambers where it is fully at rest. THEN you put it in a pocket holster that keeps the hammer from being bumped out of that notch. Look at different pocket holsters, as some do not cover that hammer spur. The GREAT thing about the NAA mini is that you can always have it with you even when you cannot carry a bigger gun.



   I hope you enjoy the forum. There have been some recent policy changes that have slowed things down a little for right now, but I am confident that it will come back and be as much fun as ever. Good to see a new name.





   Louie

grayelky · May-05-12 00:05

Pete_on_the_coast



   First, Welcome to the forum! The biggest drawback to using a single action revolver for self defense is lack of practice. Coincidentally, it is also the single biggest drawback to using any weapon for self defense. My first handgun, roughly 41 years ago, was a Ruger Single Six, 22 LR/Mag revolver. I have shot a heck of a lot of ammo through it, and over the years, a number of other single actions have found their way to me. While I do not have the practice with the center fires I do with the rim fire, it is all the same motion.



   I carried a double action S&W revolver for quite a few years in uniform and as a detective, prior to the change over to a semi-auto. As you may imagine, I have had ample opportunity to practice with both styles of handguns. My personal first choice is a 1911 in .45 ACP.



   I feel quite comfortable using a single action revolver, and if I had one of suitable caliber, I would not feel I was in grave danger just because that was all I had to defend me with.



   I rarely rely solely on one of my NAA mini revolvers as a primary weapon. I view them more as a back-up plan to whatever other gun I happen to have handy and as an "excuse me while I go to the truck to get my gun" gun. If my only weapon were a Ruger Single action, I would feel the advantage would be mine, as any opponent with a "superior" semi-auto or double action revolver would likely feel he had the upper hand.

Uncle_Lee · May-05-12 06:05

Good Morning Mr. Coast,

   Welcome to the forum.

   You can have a little fun here but you can't cuss or anything like that.



   Single or double action or semi-auto?

   Rimfire or centerfire?

   22 Short or 500 S&W?



   What ever you are good with and comfortable with should be your choice. What ever gun you choose, get to know it and what it will do if you ever need it to do something.

   PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!!!

   If the time comes that you must use a firearm, it will not be the time for you to think:

    "Is mine big enough? Will the bullet go where I want it to? Will this bullet go through this dude and kill the little kid down the street? Did that sandwich have mayo on it?"

   You need to know the answers to these questions before you choose to carry that gun.

   Single action for self defense? Sure, nothing wrong with that as long as you can hit what and where you want to with it.

   Personally, I don't have any concern about reloading a personal protection firearm. I am not going to be using it in an old west type shoot out. But just in case a reload might be necessary, I carry more than one handgun.

   Another thing I never worry about is getting the gun back into the holster. If I am involved in a shooting, my gun will not be in the holster when the cops get there.

   It will be unloaded and laying somewhere outside my reach.

   That cop don't know what she/he is coming upon and I am not going to be standing with one foot on a dead or dying person waiting for my picture to be taken.

grayelky · May-05-12 08:05

I can see it now:

Uncle lee standing in the middle of the street, pointing to the dead guy laying on the sidewalk. As the Officer gets closer, he can understand the mumbling - Uncle lee is complaining about the mayo....

Uncle_Lee · May-05-12 09:05

AND spitting out the dill pickles.

heyjoe · May-05-12 12:05

Uncle Lee what happened? i thought you liked the red dots.

Uncle_Lee · May-05-12 14:05

At some time in our lives, we must all see the error of our sinful ways.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and some of the beholders may have thought the little red dots were not beautiful.

They were just evidence of a shameful dirty thought

chopprs · May-05-12 14:05

....quick, somebody call Guiness!

Uncle_Lee · May-05-12 14:05

BR-549

santa · May-05-12 16:05

Greetings from the left er I mean West coast. I do carry my 22 mag conversion with a 1 5/8 inch barrel most of the time. The main reasons are: 1 the gun is easily concealable. 2.It is reliable 3. Most of my other guns are bigger and therefore harder to hide. 4. Right now I cant afford to buy anything else. 5. I can hit a target reliably. I admit the mini is a last ditch resort but I am rather good with it. Of course there is no way I would want to be in a shootout with one. Still an old saying comes to mind. THE 22 IN YOUR HAND THAT YOU ARE GOOD WITH IS FAR SUPERIOR TO THE 44MAG AT HOME THAT YOU CANT HIT THE BROADSIDE OF A BARN WITH!

cedarview kid · May-05-12 17:05

That is so weird that you ask, Pete. Since I got my new Ruger Vaquero Talo special edition revolver in .45ACP, I've been thinking the same thing.



   Of course, I HAVE carried NAA minis, which are also single action. But getting the Vaquero made me think about carrying a large-caliber single action. Anybody have thoughts on that?



   And WELCOME, Pete!

Uncle_Lee · May-05-12 19:05

Carrying a single action revolver for protection goes back to 1836 with the Colt Paterson.

   I don't see any reason not to carry one except the bulk of it. Single action revolvers (except the mini) are large and wide. I grew up shooting single action revolvers and I can shoot pretty fast and straight so size is what makes me carry a less bulky semi-auto. (or two)







   The NAA Mini revolver is not the last ditch resort.

   Hitting someone with my old fist is the last resort. Look at all the old bones that would break.

chopprs · May-05-12 20:05

....I thought stepping on their throat after shooting them while waiting for the Police was the last effort....

cedarview kid · May-05-12 21:05

I can see ONE reason not to carry a single-action revolver for self-defense--being unfamiliar with it. You have to cock it before you can use it. If you don't ready to do that, you shouldn't carry it.

So, I guess it's really a matter of practice.

boone123 · May-05-12 22:05

The first gun I ever carried was a Ruger Bearcat, and that was only part time. Worked much better than my other gun, which was a Ruger MK 1 target.

Kevin · May-06-12 05:05

I'm a SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) member and I have thought about carrying a .44 Special Bisley reproduction revolver http://www.buffaloarms.com/ItemMedia/10024/10024_41256.jpg">http://www.buffaloarms.com/ItemMedia/10024/10024_41256.jpg during the winter here in Wisconsin when heavier clothing will conceal it. If I did so, I would get some black powder loads for it.



   I'm thinking that:

   1. Pulling a SA revolver in self-defense and popping off smoky rounds could introduce a fear factor in some assailants (this guy is crazy and/or confident that he won't need a speed reload).



   2. No responding police officer or Good Samaritan is going to mistake me for a gang-banger (or postal employee).

Uncle_Lee · May-06-12 06:05

Kevin,

   If the bad guy is afraid or impressed with all the smoke and whoomph of the shot, you need more pratice. After the shot,, the bad guy should be on the ground or going that way.



   Really, I agree with you 100% and I love the Bisley.



   A cold crisp morning with no wind at all.

   The cloud of smoke and smell of rotten eggs would linger for hours.....

People would have to walk around the cloud.

chopprs · May-06-12 07:05

....rotten eggs?

Did you fart again Lee?

Uncle_Lee · May-06-12 07:05

Not until after breakfast.

Kevin · May-07-12 02:05

Uncle_lee, I should have mentioned scenarios including multiple bad guys, but you're right, I will always need more practice. Practice, even if it means putting off mowing the lawn or shoveling the sidewalk... Practice, even though I should be doing some aerobic exercise... Practice, even it if means skipping reruns of Lonesome Dove...

Uncle_Lee · May-07-12 08:05

NEVER!!!!!!!!!

   Miss reruns of Lonesome Dove? NEVER!!!!!!!

   Practice AND watch.

   I have a Pietta brass framed replica of a Colt 1851 with a 5" barrel that I practice with during Lonesome Dove reruns.

   Which is at least once every two months and has been since it came out on tape.

   Best Cowboy movie ever made.(other opinions may vary.................but you are wrong)

grayelky · May-07-12 09:05

The biggest advantage the revolver has over the semi-auto is the ability to fire a more powerful round. If you are going to choose a single action, pick a large caliber, such as .45 Colt .41 mag. or even the .44 mag. If picking a magnum caliber, do not use full power loads. You do not want over-penetration, and, you want to be able to get the second shot off in a reasonable time frame. Even with large bore single action revolvers the axiom holds true: It is better to hit with a .32 than miss with a .45!

Kevin · May-07-12 22:05

quote:

Uncle_lee: "Miss reruns of Lonesome Dove? NEVER!!!!!!! Practice AND watch."

   Funny you should say that. Due to some recently hired people, we had a "team-building" exercise at work a couple of weeks ago, where the whole department (around 30 people) were gathered in the conference room and everyone took a turn stating their name, their primary job responsibility, and favorite hobbies.



   One of my coworkers said "I like to relax by watching tv and shooting handguns.", to which some wag in the back of the room commented in a mock whisper: "He's already on his 14th tv set this year!"

Uncle_Lee · May-08-12 04:05

   My ol 51 hasn't had balls or powder in it for about 5 years now.

   No chance on putting a hole in the TV.



   As old as I am now, I wouldn't do it with any other gun I have........might just be loaded.

lewiss · May-17-12 01:05

I think about concealed carry of a Bearcat all the time. I like 22's because I can hit exactly what I am aiming at (with a good gun). Every time I work the gun show for my friend I lust after the Bearcats. Since I have a lot of hours bench shooting, any non-auto handgun with a hammer (e.g., single or double action revolvers) get treated by me as single action for maximum precision. So I am used to having to cock a hammer before the thing will go "boom." I even catch myself occasionally trying to cock my semi-autos on follow-up shots when I'm trying to be precise. Just habit. But if you "grew up on" semi-autos, a single action will take some training to instinctively pull the hammer in a high stress situation.

mndoug · May-17-12 15:05

Hello Pete,



   Let me add my welcome, and my two cents:



   Are SA revolvers inherently more dependable with rimfire ammo? If you're talking everyday range ammo, my answer is NO! I've had probably two times as many rimfires misfire as centerfires. But, if you're talking self-defense ammo (the more expensive, higher-quality stuff) I would say they're probably equal.



   Does the NAA trigger design create significant risks for unintentional discharge? More than a traditional revolver, maybe, but not "significant" to worry about. In my opinion, the hammer is the thing to watch. Be sure it's in the safety slot, and carry it in a holster that adequately covers the hammer or most of it. Bottom line: If the design were REALLY dangerous, none of us would be on this board, because NAA (and its predecessors) would have been sued out of business a long time ago and the design would be gone!



   The viability of a SA (NAA or otherwise) as a self defense carry weapon? Well, other than NAA minis, are you talking about .45 Colts? There is a LOT of discussion online about this, and the consensus seems to be that an SA loaded with .45LC is absolutely a good self-defense revolver. Just Google "SAA Self Defense" or "SAA ".45 Colt"



   And hey, the SA worked for these guys:



   MEMBER QUIZ! MEMBER QUIZ! MEMBER QUIZ! Can you name all of the Old West shooters below, top to bottom?

jupiter7 · May-17-12 15:05

Earp

   Holliday

   Kid

   Cody



   I think?

leafhopper · May-17-12 15:05

Photos:

   Wyatt Earp

   John Wesly Hardin

   Billy The Kid (photo flopped - he was really right handed)

   Wild Bill Hickock

heyjoe · May-17-12 15:05

Wyatt Earp

   John Wesley Harding

   Billy the Kid

   Wild Bill Hickock

Uncle_Lee · May-17-12 17:05

Of course Billy the Kid was also known to use a double action Colt Thunderer. It what he was using when he was killed by Pat Garrett.

John Wesley Harding at times used both the Thunderer and the Lightening.

mndoug · May-17-12 20:05

AND LEAFHOPPER WINS IT!!! BRAVO. (Nice details, Leaf, Joe and Lee...)



   OK, how about one final double-or-nothing pic? What is the photo below of? (You needn't name the individuals to win.)

louiethelump · May-17-12 21:05

The hole in the wall gang

Butch Cassidy on the right seated