Looking for a Pocket/Mouse Gun

shadowchess · July-05-12 17:07

New member here. I have a mini revolver in .22LR already, but I am looking for something more. Summer carry is what I am looking at, which means a gun you can put in the pocket of your swim trunks and not know it is there really. Narrowed my choices down to a Black Widow with a convertible cylinder or a Guardian in .32 ACP. I have discarded many other potentially viable pocket guns for various reasons with primary consideration being weight. If it is going to weigh more than my S&W .357 at 13.3 oz unloaded, then why would I consider it other than to just buy another gun. Being able to handle just about any type of ammo is important as well. I miss my Beretta Tomcat I traded away about 10 years ago, but now that I look at them, I don't need my frame to crack. If it won't be in my pocket, then it will be in an IWB holster at the 4:00 O'Clock position. Anyhow, I just wanted to get the topic out there and hear some input. Thank you for any assistance.

louiethelump · July-05-12 17:07

Welcome to the Forum! We always need new people to pick on.... the old ones wear out pretty fast!

   The 32 Guardian weighs just about that 13.5 oz figure I think, but it is a lot flatter than your revolver and makes a great pocket carry gun. I have one and like it, but many like the Kel-Tek 32 as it is a little thinner and lighter as long as you don't object to plastic guns.



   If you do a little shopping around, you can get some deals on good used ones.



   Best of luck, and don't take the ribbing on here seriously.





   Louie

22man · July-05-12 17:07

welcome

   the guardian .32 is 13.5oz unloaded

   the BW .22M is 8.8oz unloaded

   so by your criteria of not being more than 13.3oz,

   the BW wins

   the ammo will also be less expensive, especially with a LR conversion cylinder

   that's my thoughts

   22man

shadowchess · July-05-12 18:07

Forgot to mention that I am looking at the BW because I have oversized wood grips on my mini that I really like. I owned a Kel Tec P3AT at one time but had problems with it. I guess I could wait for the Sidewinder, but do they make it with a convertible cylinder or not yet.



   Louie - can you tell me more about your Guardian in 32? Such as what you like about it, any problems, etc.



   I suppose I should clarify something about weight, i.e. if it weighs about as much as my revolver, that is fine. I am not considering the .380 Guardian because that weighs as much as my Glock 26 so no thanks.

theysayimnotme · July-05-12 18:07

Not much will fit the pocket of swim trunks.

But for small & light a NAA .22 mag with 1 1/8" or 1 5/8" barrel would do.

The Ruger LCP in .380 @ 9.4 oz could be a good choise as well just so long as you live in a state where you can buy one unlike the People's Demokratik Republik of Kalifornia.

louiethelump · July-05-12 18:07

The 380 is heavier. 18+ oz, so I see it as a flat S&W model 60 with 7 shots, and it lives mostly in the glove box.



   The 32 feels heavy at first as is a solid little gun, but in a pocket holster, you don't notice it after about the first hour and it is very compact. I own one right now, but have had several over the years. ALL have worked flawlessly for me, but others have complained of issues, and I suspect a not firm enough grip is the problem with 99% of them. Mine feed most anything (I have not tried all ammo, but have not found any it will not work with) and while the sights are small if you want accuracy mine shoots within an inch or so of point of aim. (I have not shot the little pocket gun at more than 15 yards) If you are happy with a DA trigger pull and know how to handle it, you will have no issues with the Guardian. It is very solid and while not pleasant to shoot, you can go shoot a box of ammo without hurting your hand if you want. (the 380 is worse)



   It is accurate for a little gun, reliable, and built to last. I picked up some extra mags and I now have 5 for it. I prefer the flat bottom ones without the thing sticking out from the bottom, but that is just me.



   I am not concerned with the 32 round, as for a close in defense gun (I don't go out and play super hero. It is for PERSONAL defense) it is where you put the hole, not how big it is. You will find it FEELS like it is half the size of the Beretta 32. (yes, I have had those too, and they are very fat by comparison) I also have mini revolvers, but I consider the Guardian a step up and with a spare mag in the offside pocket (about the size of a pocket knife) and some knowledge of how to operate a semi-auto pistol (fire 6; and reload with the chamber hot) you have 13 rounds in a very small package.



   I like them.

chopprs · July-05-12 18:07

Guardian is a great gun but IMO a little heavy for the pocket but fine for IWB. I carry a Pug in my pocket and I often forget it is there.

Diamondback makes a great 9mm that is just about the same size as the Guardian and is flatter (.80") and only 11 oz. with 6+1 9mm capacity in a .380 sized package. Just don't count on getting any night sights for it in this lifetime.....

louiethelump · July-05-12 18:07

"WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' SIGHTS!!"

bill_deshivs · July-05-12 19:07

My recommendation is the Keltec P32 or P3AT. They weigh considerably less than even the .32 Guardian. The Guardian's advantages as a pocket gun are the size and the stainless construction.

satchel · July-05-12 19:07

I have a Diamondback DB9 and I would recommend it for pocket carry as long as you have a good pocket holster. Personally I carry mine IWB as I feel it provides a more reasonable accommodation since it would be quite difficult to draw from the pocket. My DB9 has been a tad picky with ammo and I have read that a lot of people are at the same conclusion.



   I really like the size of the Keltec P3AT and with a little fluff and buff and some research on the ammo it likes you would have a gun that fit all of your requirements and not break the bank.



   My LT owns a Ruger LCP and it has proven to him to be quite reliable although he says that it is absolutely not a range gun due to the trigger bite and snap of recoil.



   I visited the local Academy store the other day and they had a Beretta mini 9 that looked kind of cool but it might be a tad too heavy for what you are looking for.

bleak_window · July-05-12 20:07

OP already has the perfect swim trunks gun, the LR mini. But if he wants something stronger than the LR, any of the magnum minis will do, especially the Pug and Black Widow if the primary function is CC.

I love my Black Widow and nobody needs an excuse to buy one, they are one of the finest small weapons ever built, IMO. A conversion BW is a lifetime of fun as well as a capable defender.

grayelky · July-05-12 21:07

First, Welcome to the forum!



   At minimum, I would move up to a .22 mag instead of your LR. I have been carrying both the 1 1/8 and 1 5/8 barrel, and cannot not tell a noticeable difference in my pocket. The extra 1/2" of barrel will give you a slight velocity gain. If you want cheaper practice, be sure to get the LR cylinder.



   I do love my NAA's, I just am not a fan of the Guardians, due to their size and, more importantly, the weight. If you want more gun, there are a couple of good options on the market, some have been mentioned. I have had a KelTec P32 since about the time they came out, and like it. The Ruger is a little better finished, if cosmetics enter into your option picture. Among the "plastic" pocket pistols, I prefer the Taurus. It has the least felt recoil and the best trigger pull between it, the KT and Ruger.



   Someone brought up the DB9. If my hands were not so "meaty", I would own one. I cannot rack the slide without it rubbing across the web of my hand. If I fired it, there is no doubt I would be bleeding profusely. If you can by-pass this slight inconvenience, I urge you to give it serious consideration. We are talking 9mm power in a 380 package.



   While I still have my KT P32, March of 2011 my sons gave me a Seecamp 32. My KT 32 has seen 0 use since then. The Seecamp is all SS, making it slightly heavier than the others, but is so much more gun than any of the pocket 380s mentioned thus far. It has no sights, yet I am able to shoot to point of aim at 10'-12', and hit virtually anything I shoot at. I still smile to myself every time I pick it up. It has been my "go to" gun anytime I want a little more gun in my pocket than one of my mini mag revolvers can provide.

trotterlg · July-05-12 21:07

You should probably take a look at a really small gun. I carry a NAA short every day, you can really forgit you have it. If you need something to carry in shorts then nothing else is better. Larry

coopercdrkey · July-06-12 03:07

Since no one else here will use the "T" word, I'l put in a plug for the Taurus TCP 380. It's made in their new facility in Florida because it couldn't muster the "points" to be imported.



   Plastic frame, metal slide- very similar to the Ruger LCP, but a smoother double action trigger pull, IMHO. Plus, if it matters, the slide locks open after the last round is fired.



   Worth a look, anyhow. (Don't listen to Louie....)



   BTW, I also have a Guardian 32 (which I got from Louie!), that I like very much. Winter carry only for me, but I have the fatter Hogue grips that add significant bulk. With the factory grips, it is much better for pocket carry. Still a tad heavy, but what a fine, fine pistol.

Uncle_Lee · July-06-12 03:07

Yes, the Sidewinder is available with the 22LR conversion.

gtgoldsmith · July-06-12 07:07

If you are interested in an affordable pocket .380 take a look at the Masterpiece Arms (made in Georgia and are all steel). They are extremely small (will fit in a 4" x 4" square) and even come with a ported barrel (new models only). They weigh in around 13.5 oz. compare that to a NAA 22M that weighs in at 6.5 oz. (all weights are approximate – and all of the other disclaimers that may apply). I carry both in a pocket holster of one type or another (like most of those on this forum I think I collect holsters than find a pistol or two that will work with them : < ) I do seem to carry the NAA 22M much more often than the Masterpiece Arms .380 as it does not put as much downward pressure on my pants (my slacks need as much help as possible as they are already fighting both gravity and a downward motion caused by the circumference and shape of my stomach).

chopprs · July-06-12 07:07

NAA clone.......

theysayimnotme · July-06-12 15:07

Which is a Seecamp clone.

chopprs · July-06-12 15:07

......not really.

The NAA gun doesn't break when you shoot it!

grayelky · July-06-12 20:07

Chopprs-

I am not clear if you are implying the Seecamp breaks when shot or the Masterpiece Arms that breaks. I suspect it is the Masterpiece Arms. While I have no experience with the Masterpiece Arms, I know for a fact the Seecamps are very well made handguns, worth the price they command.

gtgoldsmith · July-07-12 08:07

I have had no problem with my Masterpiece Arms .380 (new model) - it always goes bang when I pull the trigger (7 lbs. trigger pull, by the way) as long as there is an un-fired round in the chamber (have never had a spent casing stick in the chamber either). It was both the barrel porting and trigger pull that attracted me to the pistol - do not care for 10 lbs. pulls and would have preferred a 5 lbs. pull which seems to be found on plastic frame DA weapons only. Safety be danged - I prefer a 5 lbs. pull. well so much for my rant on DA automatic pocket guns.....

lohman446 · July-07-12 08:07

Ahh the Beretta Tomcat.



   The imperfect perfect gun.



   The frames cracking are overstated and not a problem in the Inox line (the stainless ones) from what I read.



   I have owned two or three of them and sold them. Incredibly accurate little guns but too thick because of the design and a touch too heavy for pocket carry.



   Darn it... now I want one again.

jcoop1 · July-07-12 09:07

Nice graphic Louie. where did you get it?

louiethelump · July-07-12 11:07

Just took a snap shot of the wife's gold fish in the bowl in the widow sill.............

CavScout · July-08-12 09:07

Another "Pocket-9" to consider is Kahr's CM9:



   http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CM9.asp">http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CM9.asp



   They can be had on GunBroker for under $4oo.

sab · July-09-12 10:07

Shadowchess,



   Like BW wrote above, you already own what is probably the best option for a "swim trunks gun". But, if you want a bit more oomph without much more size and weight, then you would be hard-pressed to do better than any of the short barrel 22WMR minis.



   If you're willing and able to consider going a bit bigger and heavier, then you might want to give some consideration to the Seecamp LWS32. It's my go-to CCW. It's a very well-put-together self-defense handgun. It's not quite as bulky as the .32 Guardian. It's certainly prettier and more reliable than the Keltec P32, and it'll stand the test of time unlike that plastic thing. It's on the more expensive side (~$400), but pricing and availability has MUCH improved for the LWS32s since the '90s. It "prints" just like a wallet with the Aker holster I have, and I find it works well with my shorts, jeans, and pants.