.25 ACP REVOLVER?

[stantheman86]

.22 LR loads like CCI Velocitor and Stinger have more velocity and energy than any commercial .25. Talking about raw "stopping" power the .22 LR makes more sense than .25.  Its not a huge difference but Ill take what I can get with a small caliber. My .22 LR Mini has plenty of pop for point blank defense with Stingers.

In my Bobcats the .25 just functions better than my .22 version which needs Stingers to work properly and the chamber has to be clean. It still jams occasionally and my .25 will run when it's dirty. More reliable, It just has less power.   .25 does have potential its just that no commercial ammo is loaded to it. If you handload, have a solid .25 pistol , and keep it safe you could probably load up some decent .25.

There was a Russian made .25, the Korovin, made in the 1930's for issue to medical staff and non-combat higher ranking officers.....It used a much more powerful .25 loading and was probably a pretty potent little pistol.

IMO .25 is becoming obsolete as .32 and .380 pistols are getting smaller and lighter.   .32 ACP made a come back when companies like NAA and Kel Tec came out with micro .32 pistols the same size as my Beretta .25 Bobcat.  It just seems like there's no use carrying a Beretta .25 when I can carry an NAA .32 or Ruger LCP .380 and gain a lot of power in the same size package. 

.22 LR will be around forever, and more people are using it for defense. I never thought I'd see the day when there would be .22 Magnum specialty defensive loads but we have Gold Dot and Critical Defense.

[redhawk4]

It just seems like there's no use carrying a Beretta .25 when I can carry an NAA .32 or Ruger LCP .380 and gain a lot of power in the same size package. 

Your Beretta  must be a lot bigger than my 950 then, an LCP is pretty similar to the size of a Guardian 380. The only reason for me carrying mine, when I do, is that it is smaller and thinner  than pretty much anything else I have and there are occasions when that matters. Normally my 380 Guardian is my minimum carry.

[stantheman86]

The .25 is a rimless case, so it would have to headspace in the chamber.

A .32 ACP mini would be far more feasible because of the semi-rimmed case.

I would even like to see a .32 Short mini , take the .22 Short frame and beef it up, make the cylinder bigger and there it is.   Like a .25 Mini, almost no one would buy them except NAA collectors.  Factory .32 Short is a mouse fart round at best, due to all the old break tops out there no one loads it hot. Few people are willing to hand load .32 short.

I would just like to see a .22 Short loaded to CCI Stinger levels to make my Short mini pack more punch and still let me take advantage of its micro size.

[redhawk4]

I'd heard the high velocity CCI stuff doesn't give better MV in short barrels, in fact the opposite, it's designed for HV in long barrels so the powder burn is wrong - is anyone chronoing these rounds? I haven't seen reliable data, just going from hearsay, but you have to be careful not to confuse a loud muzzle blast with increased velocity, that can jut be powder burning after the bullet is long gone. I'm sure someone has run them through a chrono and can report.

[Dinadan]

I'd heard the high velocity CCI stuff doesn't give better MV in short barrels, in fact the opposite, it's designed for HV in long barrels so the powder burn is wrong - is anyone chronoing these rounds? I haven't seen reliable data, just going from hearsay, but you have to be careful not to confuse a loud muzzle blast with increased velocity, that can jut be powder burning after the bullet is long gone. I'm sure someone has run them through a chrono and can report.

Have you looked at Ballistics by the Inch: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

That is an interesting site, in my opinion. Be sure to click on the Muzzle Energy Graph links when you look at the data. Seems that out of a two inch barrel the best LR is better than some Mags, though the best Mags are better than the best LR out of a two inch barrel. So yes, in the case of the mediocre Mags they just deliver more flash and bang than a good LR.

I wish Ballistics by the Inch had tested .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long. Just wonder how they really compare to .22 Mag. I have shot some .32 S&W at junk and I got the distinct impression that even those low velocity 85gr rounds were hitting harder than .22 Mags. 

[redhawk4]

I like that site too, I also like to see the real world gun figures for comparison, unfortunately they often don't have the gun and ammo combo I'm looking for, but then there are a lot of options, so that's only natural.

I'm seriously thinking of buying a Chronograph so I can test the various ammo and gun combinations that I have, for myself, some are pretty cheap now and alleged to do the job from the reviews. Having your own data would seem to be much better than going with stuff from the internet, which may a may not be accurate, and you never know how manufacturers data stands up, often you don't know the barrel length they allegedly got the data from.

I don't know why but it generally seems the NAA revolvers based on their Ballistics,  run a bit slower than the BBI figures.

[redhawk4]

I've gone past thinking of buying a chronograph, I just did buy one!! Amazon had a good deal on one that has good reviews for about 40%  less than it goes for in Cabelas and my Mother sent me an Amazon gift card for my birthday - woo hoo, I'm quite excited to get it and check MV's on my various guns. I'm looking at reloading some 44 magnums  in the near future so it will be handy for those too.

WARNING: Expect some boring statistical reports in the coming months - feel free to put me on the "ignore list" I'll be happy ranting to myself.

[Dinadan]

Redhawk4 - You probably should not buy stuff after 7:00PM, but I look forward to some boring ballistic reports.

[TwoGunJayne]

I have enjoyed my chrono. I'm sure you will like it.

[redhawk4]

Redhawk4 - You probably should not buy stuff after 7:00PM, but I look forward to some boring ballistic reports.

I had to have something to do while waiting for a teenage daughter to get ready to go to a dance, after which I will be free for a couple of hours to enjoy myself. Is there something particularly significant about 7.00 pm? is it the "witching hour" for purchasing gun accessories or at my age are you just concerned I should be in bed?  too late for making significant purchase decisions?

I've decided a Chrono should be fun, you always assume you know what your guns and ammo are doing in theory until you have a chance to test them like this. I can throw it in when I go to the range or even shooting outdoors with spring approaching, and over time build a picture of different gun and ammo combinations.

[boone123]

Redhawk...
To each his own. You want to know how fast your bullets are going.  I want to know how far my bullets can go accurately, and how much damage they can do when they get there. Fun for everybody in the world of guns. Sounds like your in for a good time.
One more thing, If your mother is in to keeping track of birthdays, mine is in a couple of days. I would be happy with more ammo.....

[stantheman86]

I'd be interested in how the CCI hi velocity .22 Short out of a 1 1/8" barrel compares to Stinger or Velocitor out of the same length.

CCI claims 1100 fps with their hi Vel Short, which probably equates to 700 fps out of a Mini....

Just wondering how much power I'm going to lose when I start carrying my Short loaded with CCI Varmint loads vs. my LR Mini loaded with Stingers.

[Dinadan]

Redhawk4 - You probably should not buy stuff after 7:00PM, but I look forward to some boring ballistic reports.

I had to have something to do while waiting for a teenage daughter to get ready to go to a dance, after which I will be free for a couple of hours to enjoy myself. Is there something particularly significant about 7.00 pm? is it the "witching hour" for purchasing gun accessories or at my age are you just concerned I should be in bed?  too late for making significant purchase decisions?
SNIP

By 7:00 in the evening some folks have had a drink or two. Could impair their judgment. I recall that Hemingway said something like plans made at night are never any good the next day. That is so true in my experience. Late at night (whether drinking or not) ideas and plans seem less difficult and more desirable. Anyway, my comment was not too serious.

[redhawk4]

Redhawk4 - You probably should not buy stuff after 7:00PM, but I look forward to some boring ballistic reports.

I had to have something to do while waiting for a teenage daughter to get ready to go to a dance, after which I will be free for a couple of hours to enjoy myself. Is there something particularly significant about 7.00 pm? is it the "witching hour" for purchasing gun accessories or at my age are you just concerned I should be in bed?  too late for making significant purchase decisions?
SNIP

By 7:00 in the evening some folks have had a drink or two. Could impair their judgment. I recall that Hemingway said something like plans made at night are never any good the next day. That is so true in my experience. Late at night (whether drinking or not) ideas and plans seem less difficult and more desirable. Anyway, my comment was not too serious.

I knew you weren't serious, but thought I might be missing the point, you have to remember American is my second language Hopefully I won't regret my purchase too much tomorrow LOL

[redhawk4]

Redhawk...
To each his own. You want to know how fast your bullets are going.  I want to know how far my bullets can go accurately, and how much damage they can do when they get there. Fun for everybody in the world of guns. Sounds like your in for a good time.
One more thing, If your mother is in to keeping track of birthdays, mine is in a couple of days. I would be happy with more ammo.....

If she was that easily fooled I'd tell her I have another Birthday in March

With regards to your first point, I've got a good idea as to which are the most accurate loads and ammunition types for most of my guns, it would just be interesting to see how they are performing numbers wise, it would be sad to find all my "pet ammo" is accurate because it shoots at low velocity and so I'm battling far  less recoil - rather than because of my my fantastic shooting skills I've also spent quite a bit of time seeing how much damage I can cause to various inanimate objects, that's always fun.

[redhawk4]

I'd be interested in how the CCI hi velocity .22 Short out of a 1 1/8" barrel compares to Stinger or Velocitor out of the same length.

CCI claims 1100 fps with their hi Vel Short, which probably equates to 700 fps out of a Mini....

Just wondering how much power I'm going to lose when I start carrying my Short loaded with CCI Varmint loads vs. my LR Mini loaded with Stingers.

If you buy me the guns and the ammo, I'll be more than happy to run some tests for you

[Dinadan]

I knew you weren't serious, but thought I might be missing the point, you have to remember American is my second language Hopefully I won't regret my purchase too much tomorrow LOL

Redhawk4 - I will keep that language gap in mind. You know, the first time I ever heard the phrase serious drinking was from some Brits whose HMRN ship was in the same Spanish port as ours. Also learned the term paralytic in reference to the aftereffects of serious drinking from those sailors. Those were the first Brits I ever met, so they pretty much shaped my ideas about Brits!

[Uncle_Lee]

We have a lot of new people on the forum and some of the old members have short memories.

So just to made sure that everyone knows:

I WANT A PAIR OF .32 ACP MINIS !!!!!

[tocsn40]

U L if you wait just a min. The nurses will be there with your meds as it seems you stopped taking then lol.

[redhawk4]

I knew you weren't serious, but thought I might be missing the point, you have to remember American is my second language Hopefully I won't regret my purchase too much tomorrow LOL

Redhawk4 - I will keep that language gap in mind. You know, the first time I ever heard the phrase serious drinking was from some Brits whose HMRN ship was in the same Spanish port as ours. Also learned the term paralytic in reference to the aftereffects of serious drinking from those sailors. Those were the first Brits I ever met, so they pretty much shaped my ideas about Brits!

Well the Brits seem to love "good piss up" and we seem to have a far more extensive vocabulary to describe such activities as well - did they ever refer to you as a "piss artist"?

Still no buyers remorse on the Chrono - perhaps I will when it arrives and I discover it was made in China after all and is the usual irritating piece of crap badly made using the cheapest possible materials with instructions in Chinese English.

[redhawk4]

U L if you wait just a min. The nurses will be there with your meds as it seems you stopped taking then lol.

If I could just find the right size drill bit, I'm about ready to "bore out" a couple of Mini Magnums just to keep him quiet. He won't fire them anyway, so he'll never find out the bullets are a little loose in the barrel, that the rifling's  goes missing, or whether there's still enough "meat" remaining in the cylinder to handle the pressure.

I might be on to something, I wonder what he's prepared to pay for a pair

[heyjoe]

it would be interesting to see what handloaders have come up  with in hotter 25 acp. i dont remember reading much about it on other forums. the 25 acp has been bashed so much for so long by internet warriors that i doubt any gun manufacturer even has a 25 acp revolver on their distant dream list. 

[Uncle_Lee]

U L if you wait just a min. The nurses will be there with your meds as it seems you stopped taking then lol.

If I could just find the right size drill bit, I'm about ready to "bore out" a couple of Mini Magnums just to keep him quiet. He won't fire them anyway, so he'll never find out the bullets are a little loose in the barrel, that the rifling's  goes missing, or whether there's still enough "meat" remaining in the cylinder to handle the pressure.

I might be on to something, I wonder what he's prepared to pay for a pair

What ever it takes.
It is only money and you can't take it with you.

[heyjoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWhhqqX_kU

[heyjoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWSmCaIk9I

[heyjoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBYeDKfl6NE

[eagles]

I know this is an old thread but the 25 ACP far exceeds any 22 magnum round if you use the 25 ACP MAGSAFE AMMO   , 1750 FPS AND150 FT/LBS !!! Tested in europe on live goats Magsafe claims this round killed faster then a 380 with hollow points . After shooting these into wood and seeing the damage they do I believe it . I love my 22 magnum Side Winder and I also have the 25 NAA Guardian . But a 25 Mini revolver loaded with Magsafe rounds would be awesome and for sure I would buy one . I am actively looking for an old 25  acp mini double action revolver  that was made in France pre WW 11 . Saw one on youtube and it looks GREAT

[MR_22]

Whoa, a fellow .25NAA Guardian owner? Nice. I was feeling like the only one. Maybe they should make the round you're talking about in .25NAA. That would be screaming, wouldn't it?

[OV-1D]

  Hey there MR_22 is the NAA 25 and same casing as the normal 25 auto or is it another NAA specialty round , which is a pain in the a** I might say .

[MR_22]

  Hey there MR_22 is the NAA 25 and same casing as the normal 25 auto or is it another NAA specialty round , which is a pain the the a** I might say .

It's a .32ACP casing necked down to a .25 caliber bullet. The round has almost no felt recoil. It's like shooting a .22LR, or maybe even less.

It's definitely a pain in your backside trying to find ammo for it, but luckily, I already have about 400 rounds. I'm not expecting that I'll find more anytime soon.

[Uncle_Lee]

I have a 25 NAA Guardian too. Sorry, don't have a pair, just one of each Guardian.

Here is some ammo for you to see for comparison.

.25 acp, .25 NAA, .32 acp, .32 NAA, .380 acp

[OV-1D]

  Thanks Unc_Lee that's what I love about pictures , takes all the guess work out of play .

[OV-1D]

I know this is an old thread but the 25 ACP far exceeds any 22 magnum round if you use the 25 ACP MAGSAFE AMMO   , 1750 FPS AND150 FT/LBS !!! Tested in europe on live goats Magsafe claims this round killed faster then a 380 with hollow points . After shooting these into wood and seeing the damage they do I believe it . I love my 22 magnum Side Winder and I also have the 25 NAA Guardian . But a 25 Mini revolver loaded with Magsafe rounds would be awesome and for sure I would buy one . I am actively looking for an old 25  acp mini double action revolver  that was made in France pre WW 11 . Saw one on youtube and it looks GREAT

  Magsafe is some good looking ammo but for their prices I would think the ammo should also be heat seeking . Way out of line but they are not alone with these exotic ammo's and prices .     Sorta like fishing lures most are meant to catch the fishermens eye not nesserceraly the fish and believe me I'm a sucker for ultra light fishing lures especially top water . That's the world we live in .     

[Uncle_Lee]

I haven't seen any kind of .25 acp ammo of any kind in 6 years.

[OV-1D]

  Do you need any Unc , I'll put that on my looking list for ya ?