Quote from: billt460 on October-08-14 16:10

Quote from: OLD and GRUMPY on October-08-14 07:10Lead--Hard lead has little "give" and may split a full choke. A slug has some "give" the ball is solid.

NO solid projectile, lead or otherwise, is designed to be compressed by a shotgun choke. Only shot is designed to pass through a choke in order to be restricted. This is because the hundreds of pellets are "fluid", not a solid mass. If you try to constrict a shotgun slug or round ball that is larger than the diameter of the internal dimensions of the muzzle itself, you will burst the barrel, and possibly cause serious injury. If the slug / ball / wad combination will not DROP through the barrel by gravity, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT THROUGH!

Parting shot, sir.

Your post is slightly off. The "Foster Slug" was explicitly designed to deform through a choke. That's why it has external ribs.

I would agree with your verbatim quote of "solid slug." To say that no slug can go through a choke safely is quite incorrect.

In addition, drop-through alone is not a definitive defintion of safetly. The user may have selected an overcharge or incorrect powder type for the grain weight.

That said, I refuse to fire a slug that bulges a shell. That's a 100% no-go for me. I hope some forumite steps up and disagrees with me. He won't have many people to argue with. You, sir, are quite free to use ten forum aliases to tell me how much of an idiot I am. It will not, however, make you correct.

Quote from: RogueTS1 on October-07-14 22:10
Yes, but it is a Glock. Designed to fire just about all the time no matter the circumstances.

...unless you've installed the aftermarket butt cap that allows debris to accumulate in the upper area of the mechanism. Normally, this will not be a problem. It, however, will lead to failures to fire if the gun is fired upside down with accumulated junk powder residue in this area. Under regular operation by any normal user it will never be an issue even with that butt cap installed.

I'm surprised such a "tactical" person was unaware of this shortcoming of Mr Gaston's design. Aftermarket stuff can easily compromise a manufacturer's intent.

Anyway, I'm sure all of the "same-friends" of the forum agree with you, Mr RTS1.

I'm convinced that there are only 3 actual people that post here and most of it is abuse when the other two are flat-out wrong.

Ever wonder why some threads can get over 10k hits and the actual discussion is actually between a cereal box and a to-go box? The real posters get insulted away by a whole lot of aliases and "same-friends." By the way, you can sort the forum by thread hits. There are only a few that really have a draw over time. It's a simple matter to see them. It isn't just the forum users. Google and other spiders eat this forum and it's quite possible a thread could possibly get 10k hits plus.

This site is now worse than 4 chan. 11 million posts by 3 spambots. All noise and no signal. By the way, I used to be radio licensed before this exact problem made me decide that it wasn't worth it to TX or RX either way. Simplex, duplex, none of that. Nobody wants to hear ad hominem crap. We're supposed to discuss guns. Oh well. Guess that was never a priority.

The real problem is one guy with 36 aliases that figures he can't get punched in the face over insulting people over the internet all day.

Reality check: Some of us know your real story. We don't betray you, why is it that you betray us?

I wont even bother to finish this post. The fact of the matter is that "you can't handle the truth." Fret not, I refuse to expose information concerning this site's user. (well, 2 users since I left.)

As far as I'm concerned, all users on this site are safe from me. I cannot speak for other users that happen by and are beaten up by two inveterate immoral "same-friends."

---

(lest I be accused of off-topic by the two users of this site)
On topic:

Fiocchi ammo usually works in NAA guns.

Have a nice day. I'm hanging out with "pocketcarry." He's welcome at the VFW.

Quote from: NOTL21 on September-07-14 17:09
I would prefer the ass spend time and energy fighting windmills...

If he were unhorsed, I'd congratulate him.

Quote from: Taxi on September-07-14 14:09
A .22 Hornet case with a .25acp bullet, might make a better revolver cartridge...

They already have a semiauto that fires that, the .25 NAA.

Mr. 22 has one, you should ask him how he likes it.

I was shooting in wet, sandy mud. A bit of a corrugated steel drainage conduit stuck from the mud. It seemed like a natural thing to try a few rounds.

I heard a whine of a bullet ricochet near my head. I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and not to fire back at the richochet-hazard target.

Thinking carefullly, the wavy nature of the steel conduit would induce a glacis-plate effect and a ricochet a good percentage of the time.

I've seen thinner backstop plates to bounce incoming bullets to a little pile in the ground.

Looked like safe shooting. No out of battery conditions happened.

One issue presented in this video is a concept called "short stroking."

Imagine that you have a semiauto expecting a certain impulse from a cartridge firing to cycle. Now imagine that it's your hand and forearm that are the action of the gun, not a gas operated semiautomatic. Your cycling action of the front-end is the action of the gun.

This, fundamentally, is the argument against "slam fire as a restricted weapon." Some feel that the cycling of your forearm becomes the trigger at that time and your holding of the thing designated as "trigger" is merely another safety function.

A pump or semi regardless of feeding method are not supposed to fire unless the bolt is in battery, else there is brass fragmentation hazard to the user.

Safety, please.

Short stroking and trigger hold is not a safe method of fire in the "new school" of pump and leverguns. I guess some people never liked an old show called "The Rifleman."

There are those that say trigger release after intentional fire and weapon cycling should be two separate operations.

Just a few thoughts.

That's classic American "big mass, low velocity, high momentum" so characteristic of the 1800s.

Great stuff, particularly as the NAA minis are miniaturized 1860s guns. There are truer to roots black powder .22 minis available. Gun history is a fascinating thing.

If we didn't like the old stuff, wouldn't we hate hearing it casually mentioned?

I'm a fan of the .22 magnum and .22 lr shotshells from an NAA mini for special purposes. Primarily, I swat pests with them and squash snake heads.

It's a "backup mini" that has a round or two of the shotshells on tap for me.

An old gunhead from the service said to me that I need to look at it as far as the baseline energy of what the cartridge can do. You can't push it much past that without lots of problems. If the base line can't do it, perhaps you need more club?

That said, .22 rimfire is consistently a top 3 2-legger killer. Historically, it is tied with .25 acp and 12 gauge as far as numbers.

.25 acp is a very strange cartridge. Barely represented in ammo production or pistols shipped yearly, it consistently shows in the top cartridges actually used.

Strange, don't you think? NAA has a secret weapon bottleneck .25 cartridge that trumps the .25 acp. Sounds like one of those "best kept secrets."

Some think the .25 NAA trumps what the .22 magnum can do.

Quote from: G50AE on September-04-14 21:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1o-NWNmQLM

A 12 Gauge SxS also makes a good car gun, as illustrated in the above video from the television series "Miami Vice". 

Oh Lawd. Oh Lawd.

...and I *remember*!

Based on the "man month" estimated and adjusted for inflation back in the 80's, I'd say a Luger pattern of any stripe in reliable and maintained service would be a good thing, given a large spare pile of spare parts.

It's amazing how the big dollar things break down with a roll pin that's a fraction of a penny in large bulk and it decides to get cranky.

The Luger pattern pistol looks like it might shoot... maybe.

More like an instrument...

You're forgetting that the tobacco cigarette was invented by a soldier exposed to paper cartridge technology. 

Quote from: Taxi on August-31-14 10:08
You can reload a longbow faster, handy if there's more than one target...

Behold the glory of Murmansk. Try not to get all juicy over this. We have to clean up the website once in a while, you know.

To be inspired in the dance takes many forms, reaching inexorably throughout life, existence, and the universe itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpsichore

QuoteIn Greek mythology, Terpsichore (/tərpˈsɪkəriː/; Τερψιχόρη) "delight in dancing" was one of the nine Muses and goddess of dance and chorus.[1] She lends her name to the word "terpsichorean" which means "of or relating to dance". She is usually depicted sitting down, holding a lyre, accompanying the ballerinas' choirs with her music. Her name comes from the Greek words τέρπω ("delight") and χoρός ("dance").

I went to church with my local professor of ancient language and ancient world history.

One of the things he said was that the goal of higher education is a grasp of the obvious. Further eduation from that is an extremely good grasp of the obvious.

Quote from: Jim1392 on August-31-14 08:08

Quote from: Jim1392 on August-28-14 07:08
I know these guns are very popular but why is it so hard to get hold of one of these guns?  A PUG Magnum with Tritium Sights and the 22 LR Conversion cylinder seems almost impossible to find. I have checked with every LGS around with no luck. Also none seem to want to order one for me either. I was under the impression that they could be ordered from what I saw on the NAA site. Other then Gunbroker the gun stores are no help. I know I could find one with the night sights and send it to NAA for the conversion. But that seems it would really run up the cost of the gun with shipping to where I would have say it's not worth it. I sent an email to NAA customer service to see if they could help in getting one ordered and sent to a FFL. Hopefully they can help.

Just a follow up. Zero response back from NAA on my email.

Due to spammers and griefers, they are historically slow to respond to the emails. Call them at customer service, it'll be gold.

NAA CS rightfully hates email.

I will have to agree to disagree.

For snap shots, close quarters, and building clearing... I'd take a crossbow over a long, recurve, or assymetrical bow anyday.

You get the quick response, a pull of the tickler... rather than having to draw the bow.

Civilian available crossbows in the USA are nothing compared to the stuff that was in Europe that lead to a ban and confiscation on the order of the highest gun control ever enacted. Notice you can't get 650 pound draw crossbows in the USA from a factory maker. Ever notice that?

Ever read the old claims of how they could defeat even the most sophisticated plate armor of the day? They didn't do that with a measly 175lb cocking effort, you know. They were shooting some of the heaviest bolts ever. (Bows call them arrows, crossbows call them bolts for breaking through the heaviest plate and bone.)

The heaviest crossbows guarantee that you need a new bolt every shot. It's going straight through and under the dirt somewhere, never to be seen again.

The one and only downside? After your shot, you've no choice but to deploy your close quarters weapon if any enemy are still sighting you after your shot.

Good luck! 

12 gauge isn't just about blasting 2 leggers.

It's about blasting anything that crawls, swims, walks, or flies. (offer only applies in the Western Hemisphere.)

Birds, squirrel and rabbits, pest control, duck season, deer season, wabbit season, duck season, wabbit season, duck season, FIRE!!!!

Black and brown bear, but not kodiak or grizzly unless you've the proper custom slugs from the proper custom gun, and a whole lot of harmless recreational activities are included.

This year, elect 12 gauge as your Representative for Everything!

12 gauge! Beats the crap out of a handgun! It's great for night pickett duty. Try it today! 

Quote from: boone123 on February-25-14 10:02
Think I am going to have to upgrade. Every time I ask my wife to hold the light for me, she tips it sideways and all the kerosene runs out..

NEC-NEC-NEC- NECROBUMP! Muahahaha!

I was in a military dining facility lit by butter. That's right, the stuff on toast. It impressed me so much, I started asking senior enlisted about it, since even the Colonel didn't know. It seemed nobody knew, nobody knew. It wasn't in SOP or regs. We couldn't find it in an ops manual at all! Where did it come from?

Turns out it's a trick that goes back farther than anyone could remember.

You see, when you soak lipids into a wick (fat into cloth,) it takes on the characteristics of an oil lamp. You can take most oil-based non-sugary salad dressings and use them as oil lamp fuel. Sugar added ruins the fuel. If they've got chunky bits of stuff such as garlic, you could strain them out with a coffee filter or cheesecloth... but don't. Let the garlic stay in the burning dish. You hate mosquitoes, right? Cook a little garlic in the butter as you clarify it before you use it as oil lamp fuel, as you must melt it first and preheat the dish for maximum effect.

Most loose, dry plant fibers are excellent for the firemaking task of "tinder." However, they can also be used in conjunction with mostly annhydrous fatty liquids as kindling and even a fuel component. An oil lamp properly placed can ignite fuel (a large, wood log) without the intermediaries of tinder or kindling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_lamp

Quote
Butter lamps (Tibetan: དཀར་མེ་, Wylie: dkar me) are a conspicuous feature of Tibetan Buddhist temples and monasteries throughout the Himalayas. The lamps traditionally burn clarified yak butter, but now often use vegetable oil or vanaspati ghee.

Each morning Tibetans offer a lighted butter lamp, representing the illumination of wisdom,[1] along with seven bowls containing pure water (or symbolic offerings of washing water, drinking water, flowers, scent, perfumed water, food, and sound) before the images on their household shrine. The butter lamp usually being placed between the fourth and fifth bowls. At funeral ceremonies or when visiting temples and going on pilgrimage to sacred sites, Tibetan Buddhists often light a large number of butter lamps together at one time.

The butter lamps help to focus the mind and aid meditation. According to the Root Tantra of Chakrasamvara, "If you wish for sublime realization, offer hundreds of lights".[2]

Pilgrims also supply lamp oil to gain merit. The monks in the monastery manage the actual lamps, taking extreme care to avoid starting one of the devastating fires which have damaged many monasteries over the years. For safety, butter lamps are sometimes restricted to a separate courtyard enclosure with a stone floor.

Externally, the lights are seen to banish darkness. Conceptually, they convert prosaic substance into illumination, a transformation akin to the search for enlightenment. Esoterically, they recall the heat of the tummo yoga energy of the Six Yogas of Naropa, an important text for Kagyu, Gelug, and Sakya schools of tantric Buddhism.

Rather than fight the [CITATION NEEDED] people on the Wiki, I thought I'd just throw in that this is in a WW2-era US military manual and was used in dining facilities aka "chow halls" world wide in the 20th and 21st century, particularly in the Pacific and Middle Eastern theaters.

How do I know so much? I cheated and attended a remembrance night while deployed in a combat zone. We shifted our thoughts from our situation to those of the past and things they had to do to try to get by.

Butter is a source of light. It's a source of dense calories. The dilemma: in the face of uncertain food and fuel supply, do you burn up your critical food calories in exchange for light to eat or wait and hope for a fuel resupply?

Most salad dressings work, but are more smoky and better at repelling insects. Pure olive oil is a fantastic oil lamp fuel and capable of giving a pure, clear, white flame with the right wick, yet you could simply just drink the stuff for sustenance.

Much like the conundrum of turning corn into ethanol to cut gasoline as a band-aid on an artery bleed of fossil fuel dependence, when you turn your food calories into light as a tool... was there another way, a better way, a sustainable way?

Human food is easy to make but tough to get 100% right. Burning food-grade oils is quite a waste, yet it has been done out of desperation. Burning fuel-grade oils shouldn't be done indoors due to serious and 100% real contamination threats. There is a reason we use million year old dinosaur guts to run our motorcycles, automobiles, vans, trucks, and aircraft and we do all that OUTDOORS. Even some emergency off-peak electrical generation is done with gasoline turbines to try to play a middle man in the commodities market, yet they try their best not to vent that junk inside someone's house. You weren't wanting to eat uranium, so one would think that it's a natural choice for our prime desired fuel as we're actually cleaning up nature's mess as far as radiologicals. Uranium is, in fact, the prime ecological contaminant for burning fossil coal; uranium is the prime reason to stop burning fossil coal. All nuke reactors ever made, plus all nukes ever detonated don't add up to the yearly gigaton uranium pollution of fossil coal burning power plants. Really. Go look it up.

You would think that thorium reactors would be hailed as the salvation of mankind as we now have to begin mining old waste repositories for fuel for the new reactor technology. We can feed upon our own radiological waste and provide a net energy positive for the upcoming population crunch as the human race exceeds the resources of the planet.

I'm not doom and gloom at all. Let's just be smart about this.

Nuclear, solar, wind, and geothermal will only help us fix our horribly broken re-use/re-cycle/re-purpose chain where the biggest idiots who don't care are the biggest problem. It's like walking into a business and immediately seeing how to cut this and that expense by 50%-95% each simply by reusing, repurposing, and recycling in an intelligent way.

Don't just throw it all away. Use that butter from the garbage to light your kitchen.

Thost Colt Pythons defined sexy in a full-size underlug magnum. That is, if you didn't prefer the tug of the Anaconda.

I guess other manufacturers just don't understand.

Quote... I wonder what held the cartridges in the tubes.

Being "young and full of beans," of course!

I wonder if I won't be forgiven for that quote?

It's cool. I think they let you be president like this now.

.223 from Teh Glawk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJuu7rwNEc

At that price, it still reports in stock at the time of posting.

Good grief, I won't even quote.

Anyway, the highest capacity long tube mags were horizontally with the barrel or diagonally through the stock.

There were speed loaders of many types, even paper sleeves.

There were cartridge boxes, techniques, even appropriate tools for getting this stuff in action.

The earliest repeating rifles that achieved any level of success were the "shove a few more in there" type. Fumbling invididual rounds was a fundamental leap ahead from earlier ignition-lock methods. The military concept of the "stripper clip" could simply be a roll of paper or thin cloth for the earliest repeating military rifles.

Strange how the earliest over-the-top successful military rifles were rimfire.

That Italian air gun of infamous military fame is another issue all together.

Quote from: Goatpacker on August-26-14 21:08

Quote from: joewolz on August-26-14 17:08
Thanks for all the excellent answers, everyone!  This is one of the best forearms forums I've ever seen.  Everyone is nice and y'all seem to keep the nasty comments to a minimum.

Thank you!

You are most welcome here! Just don't ask to see pics of all our FOREARMS!!
Just kidding. Glad we can help!

Waitaminnit! Isn't this a "short arms" site?

You know you're serious when you group your .45s in different categories for different bullet diameters that are claimed to be ".45."

.440, .451, .458, so on, so forth...

A cast on each arm... now that's actually a fairly effective pair of weapons!

It's like a giant brass knuckle... for your arm!

NO! The laser for the .22 LR (top strap LaserLyte sight) will NOT fit the .22 short.

You're going to to have to cut and mangle the mounting plates for this to work.

In addition, the top strap laser makes it slightly more annoying to remove and replace the cylinder.

It didn't say it would work, I bought one and tried it. It doesn't work. My attempt at cutting the mounting plates was unsatisfactory.

Great! We've got him fooled, guys!!! 

Just kidding. We talk about guns and there is quite a bit of knowledge here. It keeps the insulting down to a minimum.

I have a suggestion.

Have you considered repeatedly cycling the action of your mini while spraying some kind of lubricant in there? I've cured failure to fire problems with that before.

Another thing is that sometimes you get a dud mainspring. They are extremely cheap.

Reading this thread only makes me think of the "shoulder thing that goes up."

Colibri rounds seem really loud out of a mini. It's really quiet out of a long gun.

Quote
They seemed to think that certain ammunition that contains steel spikes, discs, and certain deer slugs fired too often can damage shotgun barrels to the point where they are no longer safe to shoot without running a risk of the gun blowing up in your hands or in your face.  They recommend lead buckshot or .000 buck shot and to only use lead deer slugs when you feel you must use deer slugs...they cause the gun to recoil harder due to the heavier projectile and in many cases the buckshot will do the same job with allot less mess.

That's not quite correct. I'm not saying that isn't what they're saying. I'm saying that what they're saying is misleading at best and outright incorrect at worst. They are trying to give a 100% cut-and-dry answer for something where there is zero cut-and-dry answer. I get the feeling a lawyer wrote that statement.

Would anyone like to begin the discussion with what's wrong with the quoted statement? Nothing against the one who posted it.

I've heard many suggestions that a proper scope should cost about half to twice the price of the rifle.

I have liked zero scopes I've tried for under $150.

Quote from: MR_22 on August-24-14 08:08

Quote from: grayelky on August-23-14 22:08
Sorry to get back on topic. My first handgun was a Ruger Single Six, 6 1/2" barrel and a Mag cylinder. My Mother had to do the paper work, as I was only 20 years old. I still have the Ruger, but, Mom is no longer with us.

Wait--what year was that? For some reason, I thought you were old than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Single_Six

QuoteThe Ruger Single Six is a single action rimfire revolver produced by Sturm, Ruger. The Single Six was first released in June 1953.[5]

This reminds me of a recent post about shooting a scared animal and how the animal "could be dead and not know it yet," yet how they can travel amazing distances with extremely fatal injuries.

One round of .380 can kill a 300 pound crack head. The primary question is "Was it in the right place?" and the secondary question is "do I have long enough until it takes effect?"

.45 acp has excellent penetration, .380 not so much.

Adequate penetration of even ball ammo has often been linked to effectiveness.