Clever.  Addresses all sorts of little annoyances as well.

Um, shoulder stock for 1858 Rems and similar Colts are legal because there were honest-to-gosh shoulder stocks for those "back in the days", and thus stocks are bona fide replicas.

Earl?  Not the case.  It is a 22mag, not a .36 or .44.  Be cautious about your state regulations.  Mine, for instance, does not allow "modification" of *any* sort beyond what is historically correct.

Now, given that pre-caution, have you looked at how stocks attach to 1858's?  A new hammer screw/pin is inserted that has extended heads on both sides.  The upper part of the stock brass hooks onto those extensions.  Then there is a slot in the bottom of the grip frame into which a "J" hook, well, hooks.  A nut on top of the "J" hook pulls the hook up, forcing the extended heads of the hammer screw/pin to lock into the brass portion of the stock.  The gun is truly squeezed and held into position within the stock.

Earl has neither "feature" to facilitate attaching a stock, even if such a stock existed.
Further, to keep the profile in perspective, the stock would have to be quite diminuative, like maybe 6" long total.

Here is an experiment you could try without breaking the bank:
Get a piece of dowel.  Place dowel between shoulder and Earl, just below the *cocked* hammer.  Try to figure out where you could attach a stock and still have a useful sight picture.

Most likely you'd determine (as others have) that your stock has to be made up of two split halves just like grips, and that the halves would set into the grip frames just like grips do now, with the grip screw holding the stock halves together.  What you'd have are grips that extend waaaaaay back beyond the backstrap, covering the backstrap, said grips "coincidentally" having a stock-like appearance.

Possibly, just possibly, your Earl would be determined to have "custom grips", not "a removable shoulder stock".

My Henry Survival was/is a jam-0-matic regardless of brand of ammo, and despite two return trips to the factory and many factory-supplied mags.  I use it soley for clearing exercises for the newly-initiated.  I have to be careful to not overdo it, because shooters do not expect to have to maintain operation of their new endeavor.

Quote from: TeeJay37 on June-09-14 06:06

Quote from: cfsharry on June-09-14 06:06
This U tube video shows it to be a single shot rifle.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B8wZQd4V5pY

This one was suggested from that one. It shows the loading and unloading. Single shot, with a manual extractor. The bolt is also manual, similar to those little Savage and Crickett rifles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6Q7m-HFj4

More than just "similar to" Cricketts.  The action on the PRK *is* the Crickett.  You find a Crickett, throw away the barrel, stock, and trigger guard.  Add the carbonfibre Pack Rifle Kit.

Quote from: TwoGunJayne on June-06-14 07:06
If you like that, then you'll probably also like the Mountain View and Machine "Pack Rifle" fishing pole .22 rifle.

Both "invented" by the same guy.  The PRK came second when absolute minimalism was the objective.  Both are great shooters.  The fish/shoot does either, but cannot shoot at the drop of a pole.  I don't think the fish/shoot can be had in 22WMR, or can it now?  Further, when I remove the bolt and the single connecting wing nut from the PRK, the PRK looks remarkably like two carbon fibre tubes.  Strap it right to the outside of the pack and nobody does a double-take.

For fishing, I keep a 4ft pole, spinning rod, and all the essentials for successful fishing in a Survivor Dry Box S1072 (small 10x7x2).

Quote from: bill_deshivs on June-05-14 22:06
Nothing was said about guns. He wanted knives, sword canes, etc. They are not NFA weapons.

My bad.  Point taken.  Posting subsequently edited.

Quote from: TwoGunJayne on June-04-14 06:06
Wow. Sorry to hear that the Henries are hit and miss.

I've got a Henry AR 7, it has never jammed. I've read about the design wanting to jam. I did a bunch of research before firing it. It didn't matter in my case.

Some say that getting the barrel nut at just the right tension is key, while overtightening it can lead to jams. It's basically the Achilles heel to the design.

Even the Henry owner never mentioned the barrel nut.  I early-on figured that out on my own, the nut needing to be tight, the barrel perfectly aligned, yet not too much pressure.  I guess mine was just a factory heel no matter what I did.  Very few guns defeat me.  This was one of those few.

For survival purposes, and going extremely light-weight but exceeding reliable, I lean toward bolt action single-shot takedowns that weigh 16 ozs, like this carbon fibre stock and barrel made-in-Utah sweetheart:


If you ask nicely, they will configure for a 22WMR

EDIT:  *Possibly* was a LEO trolling for idiots willing to admit they had AOWs without a permit illegal weapons.  Not much different from the Nigerian Bank Letters (which are legal in Nigeria because they are the third-largest grossing source of revenue for the country).  This guy got angry because he finally got a strike and then he discovers he has to toss it back.  And then it struck again.  And again!

REASON FOR EDIT:  This was an ad from 2010 before those items were banned from CL.  FWIW, none of the items being *requested* are legal in my state.  But it is not clear in which area the ad was placed.  Consequently, I have to modify my response from statement to conjecture, and from AOW's to Hidden Edged Weapons.

I shall endeavor to be more discriminate in the future.

In my state, if the word "fun" is associated with any gun, it goes on the banned list.

Quote from: G50AE on May-29-14 22:05

Quote from: TwoGunJayne on May-29-14 10:05
All this talk of removable pistol shoulder stocks has brought my AR-7 rifle to mind.

It's to bad the AR-7 is not available in .22WMR.  That would be a very "tactical" survival rifle, IMHO. 

I had one of those Henry jam-o-matic "Survival" rifles. Maybe they are better now, but not mine.  No matter how many times back to the factory (I quit trying after the third round trip), nor how many mags they sent to make it work, no ammo of any kind would make it past 20 rounds without a stovepipe, double-feed, or failure to strip from the mag.  I sent it to the grandkids to learn how to clear stoppages during shooting.  They don't even work well as a survival paddle, sort of like using a putter to get traction with your canoe.  Oh, and they rattled in the buttstock when "packed".

Quote from: top dog on May-31-14 05:05
If customers would refuse to buy 22 ammo at high prices and not buy any ammo for some period of time,the shelves would soon be full of 22 ammo on sale.

Just remember the LGS that wanted to charge you $75. for a brick of 22s when it comes time to purchase some other things and go elsewhere.

One LGS had a large supply of 22 ammo but gave the impression to his customers that he had very little and charged accordingly.

                                                                                                                        Top Dog

+1.  The closest LGS was previously owned by a friend of mine.  He sold, then passed away.  His wife constantly gets calls - for her to buy the store back and get rid of the new owner.  Desperate for Large Pistol primers, I walked in.  Dumb move on my part, shows how desperate I was.  This new owner (I shall refer to him as "Mr. J") had one 100cnt tray of CCI LPprimers, marked at $7+ for the little pack of 100.  Whew!

Suddenly, I had to answer nature's call in  big way, so I kinda just used Mr. J's restroom.  No sign on the door saying "employees only" - no, wait, there was something hand-scrawled on a piece of paper taped up since I'd last been to the store, but I figured he'd be even more upset if I messed his floor, so the sign accidentally got unstuck from the unlocked door.  Must have been something I ate, or a price I'd just seen, or something like that, but urgent is urgent, you know?

Much to my surprise, Mr. J. had 4 unopened CASES of bricks of CCI Large Pistol primers stacked in his bathroom, and one more case with two bricks left, one of the bricks not quite full.  21k+ LP primers in his bathroom (not to mention the 50k Large Rifle primers he also had stacked there),  but a mere 100 primers on the display case marked for twice the normal retail price.

I came out of the latrine and offered to relieve him of a brick of 1,000 for $35 (even now, they are $32/k at MidwayUSA).

His reply, cool and coupled with a hard stare: "Those primers are spoken for."

Well, fella, my money's spoken for as well.

Quote from: TwoGunJayne on May-30-14 06:05

QuoteYou do have some options as to safe powders to use in the NAA C&B.  Trail Boss.  Smokeless, but very low power.  Fill to the inner ledge (not the top of the chamber, the little ledge down in the chamber), press in a bullet until it bottoms on that ledge, cap it, let 'er rip.  Won't go very fast, but won't blow up your gun.

I've a bottle of Trail Boss, it has a sticker on it saying "Not a Black Powder substitute."

Looking over their "loading data," I don't see why it wouldn't work. Their "reloading data" is literally the phrase "scoop the case full, ram the bullet down on it." If you can do this with any cartridge originally designed for black powder (like .45 lc,) then I don't see the problem.

Pressure info I've found on Trail Boss doesn't sound dangerous from a BP gun. It makes me wonder what I'm missing.

Lawyers.  Were it to be marketed as "BP SUBSTITUTE" it cannot be marketed as "smokeless".  As smokeless, you can fill less-than-case-full (leaving an air gap) with TB and thereby get a really low-powered shot.  But it is so fluffy (it is shaped like tiny sequines with holes in the middle, and flat) that the energy per volume is less than any other BP substitute.  That's because the energy per weight unit is surprisingly low.

All the chronographic data I have seen in C&B shows TB as lower velocity than any other BP-like powder, grain-for-grain volume.

It is really great for reproduction reloads where you want velocities from cased ammo to be 850fps or lower, but you don't want to buy a scale.  Fill 'er up, ram in a bullet, and yer good to go.  Suspiciously like BP to me, too.

I have not removed the grips on ours for over a decade (wrapped in A-Grip, amazing stuff), but my recollection is that as long as you don't mess with anything, the grips are just ornamental and space-filling in function.  Judge for yourself here:

Quote from: Goatpacker on May-29-14 04:05


Net result is that I wind up carrying something extra just for her.
Whatever seems to suit the occasion.
Better than leaving it at home.

Are you saying you carry her gun on you for her to use?
[/quote]

Um, your question kinda makes me look like her full-time boy gun bearer (grin).

Let me rephrase.  There are times when I carry two, one of which is expressly for when she might suddenly be happy to have it in her hand.  This is not all that different than my carrying the extra money/keys/cards/flashlights/maps/snacks/drinks.  So, yes, I am sometimes her boy gun bearer.

What does a LGS offer that differentiates them from box stores and internet?

Lower prices?
Broader choices?
Deeper stock?
More accoutrements?
Better guns?

They offer the opportunity to fondle, and to find something used.
Oh, and to chat.

The market is demonstrating that most buyers don't want to chat, know what they want, and don't want it used.

So a LGS has devolved to a place where people who want to fondle old guns go to chat.
Nothing wrong with that, but it is not a very profitable way to spend time as a gun seller.

I am getting more respect for blowguns.  Not just another dart gun, eh?

Quote from: leafhopper on May-29-14 01:05
What I did wrong was load the magazine as I would any other. ..

Got it.  Thanks.  Makes sense to me, and I probably would have done what you did the first time around.

Quote from: Kevin on May-28-14 22:05
... it appears hoarders aren't sucking up Square Deal and Rock Chucker presses the way they are grubbing manufactured ammo.

I love the image of a guy with a garage full of blue and green boxes almost too heavy to lift, and his wife and kids parking the cars and bikes in the drive for lack of room.  BarBQ time and his guests ask "What you doing in your garage, Ralphie?"  "Oh, come look at my stash of presses."  "Wow!, more than MidwayUSA!"  "Yep, they'll have to take these from my cold dead hands."

Ralphie carefully did not mention the ones he had buried in the State Forest, nor the one he carried in the BOB.  Ralphie was pretty sure that several of the guests were really informers for a government agency he hated to even think about.  The ones in the garage really were being sold on Gunbroker at highly inflated prices because of the recent shortage, under the name "GITEMWILEUKAN".

Quote from: OV-1D on May-28-14 01:05
...  Is Everlyn Wood speed reading courses still in print ? 

I don't post often here, and I do try to keep my postings short.  But sometimes the response needs background and tangential information to assist others who are not regulars.  Large is not bad in and of itself.  The down-arrow works on all keyboards, new or old.

The problem with abbreviated loading instructions is that there is no explanation as to why the answer is the answer.  Except for 32 and C&B, this forum has zero in-depth explanation of how powder works, and why.  Steelbirds of this world who seek 140-character answers get only "don't do it", then shrug their shoulders and do it anyway because they found other 140-character answers elsewhere that said it was OK (but not what the prevailing circumstances are and why).

We get but one shot at the Steelbirds that show up on this forum.

Steelbird has not been back to read our replies.  So mine was left for the next lurker who might actually take the time to learn the reason behind the answers.  Possibly the next newbie will not just pick between "yes" and "no", but actually discern *why* one of those answers is life-threatening and become a responsible firearms owner to pass the message on to the people s/he connects with in other media.

Don't dismiss the growing concern that Steelbird is a troll intentionally posing "risky" questions in the attempt to draw out responses to which they can paste onto billboards "See?  We told you they need to be disarmed!"

On another forum I had one newbie flame me for "giving so much information that it was treating him like a 10 year old."
I had to point out that there was no evidence in his profile or original post that he was not a 10 year old sitting at a keyboard, posing childish questions.

I won't let my wife carry in her purse.  She's always asking "Where'd I leave my purse?"

I am trying to get her to try the "flashbang(TM)" bra holster.  She says she sweats too much there already.

Net result is that I wind up carrying something extra just for her.
Whatever seems to suit the occasion.
Better than leaving it at home.

Muzzle energy?  Isn't the design purpose to be a vehicle to transport a poison or narcotic, not inflict violent damage on impact?

I have always wondered how one could transport ice darts so the projectile itself vanishes after making the delivery.

Unfortunately, not legal in my state.
But I cross the border and I am free to fire one!
Always wanted to handle one of these.
What is the secret to properly loading these (22 WMR, correct?)
What is it you did wrong?  Rim lock?

There are several layers of faulty presumptions in your questions.

First, that Unique is "like" BullsEye.  These are not "like" similar cereals, or "like" 1% and 2% milk.  They are more "like" gasoline and diesel.  They look similar, and will catch on fire, but need to be placed in totally different heat engines to be properly used.

Second, that the chamber design of NAA's C&B cylinders are "like" any other BP gun, or any cartridge gun for that matter.   They are as un-alike as are gasoline and diesel engines - both of which have cylinders and pistons and crank shafts and propel vehicles, but are vastly different in essential combustion characteristics.

Appropriate Internet Answer: 
Until you are totally aware of the designs of the NAA C&B chambers, you would be best advised to follow the instruction manuals.  I am the fourth person to give you that answer.

More complex explanation if you wish to learn the why behind that answer:
What you are asking is similar to asking "I have heard you can run gasoline in a diesel engine.  Diesel is not available here, but I have a can of chain saw fuel..."  The fact is, gasoline can be run in some diesel engines *under very strict circumstances and within only certain formulas of mix.*  So the question itself is not "bad."  It just happens to be the first step into a very dangerous study of explosives, and must not be taken lightly.

Have you, for instance, researched NAA C&B chambers on this forum?  Do you do any reloading of pistol cartridges other than 45 (say, 32acp or 9mm), AND shotgun shells, AND rifle shells?  Do you know which powders need to be compressed and why, and which powders need to be loose, and why?  What happens with some powders if you put in too *little* powder?

I am only touching on the surface of the sea of knowledge you would need to understand before you can safely venture into shoving smokeless into your C&B.  The easiest responsible thing for us to do is tell you don't do it.

TGJ nailed it.  "Could" does not mean "Should".  And the fact that you have been made aware of some people using BullsEye (but no mention of how much, under what projectile seated how deep, lit by which cap) but blithely inquire if a powder that is conveniently at hand will work as a subsititute is sufficient indication that you are not yet practiced in a broad variety of reloading.  If you were, you would already know the answer to your question.

Yes, you are trying to learn.  That is why I am trying to explain.

The "simple answer" to your question about the use of Unique in NAA C&B is there is no published proven formula for Unique as to how much to make it worth your while without also risking extreme damage to yourself.  Have people tried it?  Undoubtedly.  Nobody reports any success, however.  In fact, nobody reports any success on any other smokeless you search for either.  That has to tell you something towards your question.

The more important question you must ask yourself is when will you take the time to learn, for yourself, why Unique is a poor, probably dangerous, choice as a substitute for black powder.  The simple answer is "it was not designed for black powder guns."  Understanding what specifically makes a powder "good" or "poor" for a given gun would go a long way to answering the same question about all the other powders available.

You do have some options as to safe powders to use in the NAA C&B.  Trail Boss.  Smokeless, but very low power.  Fill to the inner ledge (not the top of the chamber, the little ledge down in the chamber), press in a bullet until it bottoms on that ledge, cap it, let 'er rip.  Won't go very fast, but won't blow up your gun.  Triple Seven works better.  Goex and Pyrodex work.  BlackMZ works, but not so well.  TGJ has posted some examples of these powders and how they perform in C&B.

More information that might assist you in your quest for knowledge:
The problem you will have to work around is the design of the NAA C&B chambers.  They are designed to intentionally be different than any you've ever worked with; further, the loading rules are different than most every BP C&B revolver or muzzle loader.  You really will get your best *safe* performance with true BP and NOT packing the powder.  More is not better for NAA C&B when it comes to true BP.

Which, when you get your NAA C&B, you will find to be the sum extent of the loading instructions.

Back to BullsEye.  That powder comes up on the Internet because there happens to be a tiny historical track record that suggests it is safe if you don't load over 2gr by weight (which is NOT a scoop full).  By the way, do you have a good scale that can measure grains weight to the tenth?  Do you know that the heat or A/C in your room, even your breathing, can alter the registered weight by several tenths on scales?  Including digital scales?  A mere .2grains "mistake" is a full 10% change, enough to blow up your gun and damage your body...   Do you know the proper way to use a powder dipper?  Do you know how many grains volume equals grains weight of the powder you will be using?  Do you know how to locate that information?  Answers to these questions will let us know your skill level for any conversations you might wish to have in the future when it comes to NAA C&B loads.

I bet there are some mice cheering the mouse gun!
"Shoot the snake!  Shoot the snake!
1 2 3 4,
What's that gun for?
Shoot the snake!  Shoot the snake!"

Oh, what the heck, why not a rail-mount MRE?  I have a rail-mount flare pen.  You could shoot a flare to warn the opposition that they have encroached within range of your killer light beam and you want them to back off while you eat a meal.  You could flip down the MRE to get heated by the killer light beam.

Put several of those 3-way rail adapters on, get three more rails at the cost of one.

With enough gear, you wouldn't have to worry about tailstanding.  Just set the thing anywhere except open water and you'd be good to go.  Wait, a railmount PFD!

Yeah, I thought about not posting into this thread, but so little has been mentioned about the 32 mag extensions, which are a real bargain (two extension for less than the price of a new 6-rounder) that I wanted to get a "solution" and proper technical explanation posted for the lady (or gentleman) who lurks and wonders why her/his 10-rounder hangs, but not if s/he loads only 9.
I think we've accomplished that, and can let this rest for another half-year.

I tried mine down there.  All that extra weight actually altered how I walked, and it was quite surprising how it negatively affected my ability to run.  No holster would hold it up without it sliding down a tad and whacking my ankle bone in low shoes on every single step I took.  So, only boots would work, but then my pants cover too much of the gun to get to it while sitting down, because the gun was riding comfortably, but way too high.

Quote from: firewire on August-26-12 10:08
Well, 10 round magazine didn't work so good.  Any idea on how to disassemble one?   
   When I load 10 rounds the follower stays "stuck" at the bottom and no longer provides spring tension and then of course won't feed.
   I can put in up to 8 rounds, but any more it locks up.   

I have been working with my two "10-round extensions".  I have puzzled this out quite deliberately and can categorically state that neither the follower, nor the spring, get stuck when 10 rounds are loaded.

It is the rim of round #10 at the bottom of the mag well that catches on the rear of the steel 6-round mag.  At first I thought the fault was the result of the tiny gap fore-aft that lets the steel mag slide in the plastic extender.  But as stated here, the plastic well is actually a tad too big.    Now I am considering epoxying-in a shim to the back of the plastic mag well so the case will not seat itself too far back and sit in the lower mag extension rear-ward of the steel mag housing.

In my mags, 9 rounds work just fine.  It's the 10th that forces the lowest case all the way below the edge of the steel.  Immediate rim-lock, even with the mag out of the pistol.

My solution, before doing any fancy work, is to carry 6+1 in the gun, 6 in a spare mag, putting the gun and 13 rounds on my left hip.  I use the finger extension on both those mags.  On my right hip are two "NAA-9-round" mags.  That gives me (a) 31 rounds to carry, (b) a finger on the bottom of each mag for panic extraction, location, proper orientation, and insertion with any kind of gloves on, and (c) much better gun control while shooting.

For the nominal loss of 2 loaded rounds, I'm quite happy with the minor cost to upgrade two of my extra mags.  This lets me carry 18 in two extra mags, instead of 18 in three extra mags.

When I have nothing else to do but twiddle my thumbs for a day, I will attend to shimming the mag extensions so I can increase my carry a whopping 6% with those essential 2 extra rounds.

Call NAA with the serial number, they will tell you the original invoice price.
It is a good bet they did the engraving.
You'd a thunk the widow would have retained the orginal invoice?
If she sold it for less than original purchase price, not only is the sale to you tax-free to her, but she has some long-term capital loss she should be telling her tax prep person.

Mark up for inflation since then,
Mark up for collector's value (no two of these were alike).
Mark up for greed.
Mark up for Seller's Commission.
Mark up for Catalog costs.
Mark up for insurance coverage.
Mark up for shipping.
Mark up for tax for all of the above.

That will be your asking price.

Anybody buying will try to start below the original invoice.
Between those two, it is all in the negotiation or the heat of bidding.

The cylinder is not engraved, nor the barrel.
It is a nice example of NAA work, but my guess is it will fetch about what NAA would sell it for today (at today's engraving rates), maybe less because it is not factory-fresh, maybe a bit more because it is immediately available.

Ah, as seen in this post:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=4325.msg69986#msg69986

Bullet and gun don't play well together.  The bullet is "unstable" coming out the muzzle, and after some distance starts to wobble like a badly-thrown football.  Not unusual, but not unsafe.

Quote from: Kevin55 on April-15-14 15:04
You haven't seen the photo of the mini with a 16" barrel?  Search this forum.

Help me here, Kevin55 - I cannot find such a posting on this forum.
I tried 16" - that didn't bring up anything except the admonision to use "more than 2 chars"
I tried "16 inch", "long barrel", and several others to no avail.
I even went to Google to do a back-end search.

I started to wonder if I should have typed in "snipe"?

Quote from: Kevin55 on April-15-14 12:04
If you go too big, it will sit at home with other full sized handguns.  The upside is an excuse  to buy another handgun.

In my last posts I have links to NAA ballistics and another website.  My take is with the 22lr, ammo choice is key.  For 22mag, the longer the barrel, the better the ballistics.   Both are optimal out of a barrel around 16".

Whoa!  I suddenly pictured a 16" Earl.  Buffalo Mini.  Make a special skinny cargo pocket on my pants, let it ride on my thigh, button flap over the folding grip.  C&B, of course.

Quote from: TwoGunJayne on April-15-14 14:04

Quotenow before you quote an old joke   " does it hurt when you do that?  then don't do that"  , being the inquisitive sort does the mag round do that or does it pertain to weight velocity etc.

Heavier bullets seem to have a greater tendency to keyhole. It's a common problem with .22 magnum pistols.

But but but - he's objecting to his 22lr's keyholing.
Personally, I'd just stop shooting the ammo that keyholes.
I ususally can find somebody who is discouraged with *his* ammo, and trade my junk for his treasures.  And viceyverse.

Excellent ensemble there, and wonderful photo staging.
Those shots are catalog-worthy.