NAA Market

[III]

Is is just me or or are prices on Gunbroker and similar sites getting above market prices for sidewinders and other NAA mini revolvers?  I see a SW at my local shop (mag cylinder only) I've been considering with a price of $355.  This is actually sl above msrp.  I have seen non-eb guns selling for far more than that on some sites.  I have only been monitoring the NAA retail market for the last 6 months or so.  My general experience with purchasing most guns in the last several years is they are going for well below msrp.   What do folks here think?   This this a direct result of the recent / current political climate and sellers market?  Is there a supply demand market unique to NAA?  Thoughts, experiences? 

[TwoGunJayne]

My vote is greed, gouging, and shill buying. I think people are far more likely to list a gun on gunbroker or whatever ABOVE msrp and wait for some sucker to bid.

The fair market is out of it when the listing starts off too high. The days of seeing below MSRP will return. People will run out of storage space.

[Uncle_Lee]

This is the Great Country of The USofA.
You can sell something for what you can get out of it.
If someone is willing to pay twice MSRP, then sell it to them.
That doesn't mean they are a sucker.
That means they want it more than you do.
Or to say it another way, you don't want it bad enough to pay for it.

Right now the pipe line is real thin on NAA minis at the wholesale level and NAA is putting all their time in building Sidewinders.
I think you will see the price of minis go up until the glut for the Sidewinder is filled. Then the price of the regular mini will fall to the bottom because people will buy the Sidewinder instead of any other mini.

[Dinadan]

I think the gun and ammo market has been a little chaotic for the past six months. Lots of new buyers with lots of desperation and  and not much patience. I think the market is is settling down now, but there have been some crazy price shifts. I check Gunbroker occasionally and it does seem like high prices for a lot the NAA guns. High enough that I am not tempted. I can see the point of putting a high Buy-It-Now price on a gun. If someones buys it - great. If not, just relist.

Here is my slant on what Uncle lee said: I would rather pay too much for a gun that I really want than get a real deal on a gun that I do not really want. 

[n9znd]

  I just paid $219.00 plus all the extras for a LR just last week because I Wanted it.  MSRP is $209.   You are right the market is thin on NAA's.   I had my normal go to guy try for a little while and said heck with it and bought it off of Gunbroker.   Bad thing I am real happy I got it and didn't mind paying the price.       Jim

[Uncle_Lee]

I think the Sidewinders are so much of an improvement that once NAA gets going on them that the regular minis won't sell very good at all.
The other models (except for the Pug) may end up being bought only by collectors.

VIVA LA Sidewinder.....

[TwoGunJayne]

If someones buys it - great. If not, just relist.

What's the point of a website full of guns that are wickedly overpriced and simply relisted over and over again?

[III]

I'm hardwired to find the best deal.  I also almost always purchase what I REALLY want.  Because of this I often must wait months...sometimes years to find and purchase a particular gun.  I can't remember paying over msrp for a new gun in recent years.  I also don't have some because of that same reason.   

It is interesting to hear everyone's take on the subject, especially the specifics to NAA.  Thank you for sharing.  I'm lucky to have a few decent gun shops around that don't take advantage of the recent market.  I suspect they are aware of what would happen if they did. 

My take has been, Gun broker and others are interesting, but if you don't go out and shop around the web can be deceiving.  I have spent hours weeding through over priced ads to find ones priced similarly to guns on the shelf at my local shops.  I buy stuff online all the time, but to date never a gun.

I may just pick up that sidewinder this week.     

[Dinadan]

If someones buys it - great. If not, just relist.

What's the point of a website full of guns that are wickedly overpriced and simply relisted over and over again?

I was not very clear - I meant relist at a lower price. That would be Buy-It-Now stuff. For a pure auction that would mean setting the reserve or starting bidding lower. I think that a lot of people have the Start bidding set too high and no one wants to make the first bid. A lot of auctions seem to end without a bid.

[.54Cal_Kidd]

From what I know  I thought that if you have a reserve or minimum you get charged to list it. That's how it was for EBAY a while back. If that's so then they are paying to relist.
But then I haven't looked at the seller agreements either...

[grayelky]

If you had an item for sale, and someone was willing to pay a lot more for it than you had intended to sell it for, would you tell them 'No, give me half that."? I had a KelTec PMR30 I was trying to decide if I would keep, put it in the shop or maybe list it on gunbroker.com. A guy called the store and asked if I had a PMR30. I told him my dilemma. He offered to come get it for $625.00. I asked if that was plus tax, and he said yes. Guess what happened to my gun. Would you have said, "No, MSRP is only about $400 or so?" Was I price gouging?

If people are willing to spend what most of us consider ridiculous money for something, is it price gouging  because we can't, or won't, spend the money?

TwoGun-
You refer to "fair market". Is it not the BUYERS who determine what an item sells for? All the greedy store owners can do is put a price on it. I do not like the current market. There are a lot of folks who are paying way above what I think they should be paying, and they are going to not like what they did when the prices come back down. And, like some on here, they are going to blame the dealers for being greedy and mhungryngray and pricing the guns way too high. Yet, the BUYERS are the ones who actually decide the selling price!

[Guardian]

I think the Sidewinders are so much of an improvement that once NAA gets going on them that the regular minis won't sell very good at all.
The other models (except for the Pug) may end up being bought only by collectors.

VIVA LA Sidewinder.....

I think your right, the SideWinder will take over their market...I wanted one with both cylinders & paid a heavy price too, but dang is it a fun gun to shoot!!

[Uncle_Lee]

Once NAA gets going with the Sidewinder with different barrel lengths, I really think the other models will be bought mainly by collectors.
If I am wanting a mini with a 4" barrel which one would I buy, one that you have to take the cylinder out to reload or one that you just swing out the cylinder?
I am going to buy the one with the swing out cylinder.

That's right.
The BUYER is the one that sets the price. If no one bought it at marked price, the price would eventually come down. They are in business to sell guns not to let them lay around.

Me?
If I see it and I want it and I have the money, I buy it.

When I saw that I was going to have to sell everything and move to town, there were two long guns that I had always wanted to own, a Taurus Thunderbolt and an Uberti copy Henry rifle.
I went to the shop and bought both of them and took them out one day and shot about 300 rounds through each.
I cleaned them up and sold them. Lost about $200.00 on each. But now I have owned and shot those.

[bigdave74]

Hi,
I also agree, with the free market and freedom to sell at the price you desire.  Remember the S in MSR is Suggested.  What am doing is, take 22 lr for example, I take the price I was paying before all this started, add a few cents/round and not buy if the retailer is above that point.  Also I keep track of those retailers, pricing 300 and 400 percent over the that point and will never buy any thing from them again.   The other great thing about the free market and freedom is it works both ways.

[Uncle_Lee]

That is what makes America so Great.
"The way we do things."

[mdzcpa]

I've  purchased 6 guns off of Gun Broker over the last year. I'm guessing I over paid on 2, paid market on 2, and got a great deal on 2.  It really just depends on the time you put into the search, your patience and willingness to walk away when the price isn't right, researching a good seller, and knowing yourself enough to know when you would pay a premium for time and convenience to acquire the gun you really want.

Because I paid a premium on 2 of my guns doesn't make me a shill.  It just means I wanted the gun at that price.  Sure it was above MSRP but who cares.  I've been enjoying those guns now for a while and the premium was well worth it.  Especially when I consider the time and gas save from hunting the local gun shops in my area.  The 2 guns I know I paid a premium for was a Ruger Mini 14 poly-stainless steel patrol rifle (#5819) and the NAA Sidewinder.  This Mini 14 specific model can be hard to find and the recent craziness wiped out the inventory. I was tired of looking around time and on the internet for months. So I paid a little more when one surfaced on GB.  The NAA Sidewinder I simply wanted quickly.  I paid $100 more than I might otherwise had I found one locally, but I've been enjoying that gun now for several months. In my book, I'm happy.

On the other end of the scale, I purchased a Ruger LCP (new model) and M&P Shield under market on GB. It takes a lot of time and patience but auto bidding does most of the work and when you lose a bid it's no big deal. Find another item with no reserve and low ball again. Worked for me 2 times as I was not in a hurry.  The Shield is a hot item the last year and I paid under retail

I think GB and similar sites have a place in the market. They are there for willing sellers and willing buyers to strike a deal.  Nothing wrong with that. 

[45flint]

I think the Sidewinders are so much of an improvement that once NAA gets going on them that the regular minis won't sell very good at all.
The other models (except for the Pug) may end up being bought only by collectors.

VIVA LA Sidewinder.....

I think the Uncle has it very right here.
Steve

[ephraim]

I think Uncle Lee stated it very well. Both the market anaylsis and the sidewinder being the future of naa. The breaktop will probably be the no 1 collectable, and people will buy types like the earl for looks,etc., but to shoot, not so much. That's what R & D is all about. Developing a better mousetrap. Why would you not take advantage of improvements, especially when , as Flint said, the cost is very close.
john

[45flint]

I think Uncle Lee stated it very well. Both the market anaylsis and the sidewinder being the future of naa. The breaktop will probably be the no 1 collectable, and people will buy types like the earl for looks,etc., but to shoot, not so much. That's what R & D is all about. Developing a better mousetrap. Why would you not take advantage of improvements, especially when , as Flint said, the cost is very close.
john

The difference with the pug is a small $35.  But difference with plain jane mag is $130.   Not a small amount.  One has to ask why the Pug is so expensive?

[Dinadan]

The difference with the pug is a small $35.  But difference with plain jane mag is $130.   Not a small amount.  One has to ask why the Pug is so expensive?

Good point. The MSRP for the Pug is $30 more than for the Black Widow, and except for the sights the Pug is just a shorter BW. Supply and demand, I suppose: the Pug is very popular - it is the gun that got me into NAA Minis! If a shop had several Pugs and Sidewinders, priced at $314 and $349 respectively, I wonder which would sell out first?

[cfsharry]

My money is on the Sidwinder.  The swing out cylinder is what the majority of potential buyers are used to. The standard Mini design is a major reloading pain for a great many folks.

[45flint]

The difference with the pug is a small $35.  But difference with plain jane mag is $130.   Not a small amount.  One has to ask why the Pug is so expensive?

Good point. The MSRP for the Pug is $30 more than for the Black Widow, and except for the sights the Pug is just a shorter BW. Supply and demand, I suppose: the Pug is very popular - it is the gun that got me into NAA Minis! If a shop had several Pugs and Sidewinders, priced at $314 and $349 respectively, I wonder which would sell out first?

To me the Pug is now obsolete, especially at that price. 

[Uncle_Lee]

Now if only they would make a swing out model in .32 acp...................................

[ephraim]

Probably a little off topic, but when I got my first mini mag. I went to the woods behind my house, and shot two cylinders of ammo target practicing. That was it. I had no further interest in trying to balance and fool with all the parts. Just too much bother. I cleaned it, loaded it and put it in a drawer. I considered it a carry weapon only. Only practiced enough to get familiar with how it shot. As said before, sights on these short barreled revolvers are for appearance only.
I had other revolvers which are much more fun to shoot. Now the sidewinder is a different story. It is a pleasure to target practice with. It would be nice to have one with a longer barrel.
john

[4Jacksman]

That is what makes America so Great.
"The way we do things."

Agreed Dave,

I am seeing "some" convertible 22lr / 22Mag. Pugs available ..from the factory, as a set?
More of these released soon?  the prices I see now are WAY over the BW convertible MSRP

[Guardian]

Probably a little off topic, but when I got my first mini mag. As said before, sights on these short barreled revolvers are for appearance only.
Now the sidewinder is a different story. It is a pleasure to target practice with. It would be nice to have one with a longer barrel.
john

I also got my first mini and didn't shoot it much, just enough to get used to it, then just carried it.

Just got a SideWinder conversion, and I have to say the difference is amazing!! The 22LR shoots great out of it! I switched to the 22mag today at the range, and I'm thinking for those I really need different grips. That magnum load is just too much for that gun with the standard grips.

Set up a couple targets, one close & the other a bit further.


Got a lucky hit with the 22Mags, then they were all over... LoL


I think if I could get the trigger action smoothed out some I could do better....but as it is the ol eyes are going...

[Uncle_Lee]

Thanks for the pictures.
At that distance, hitting the blue is good enough for self defence.
Good shooting..