Pug vs BugOut II velocity

Started by billmeek, June-18-18 13:06

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billmeek

Last week I bought a LabRadar ballistic radar chronograph.  I was out at the range yesterday doing some testing with 22 rifles and took a few minutes to get some basic 22 Mag numbers from my NAAs.  I primarily wanted to see what difference the extra half inch of barrel the BugOut II has over the Pug when using short barreled ammo. I also fired some Fiocchi out of the Pug for comparison. 

It's a very small group (5 rounds each) so the numbers aren't high enough to be statistically reliable.  But from my testing with the rifle, I believe the numbers are accurate.  Here's the overall stats:

Pug with Speer Gold Dot - Short barrel 22 WMR

Stats - Average        924.67  fps
Stats - Highest        939.95  fps
Stats - Lowest         915.51  fps
Stats - Ext. Spread     24.44  fps
Stats - Std. Dev         9.48  fps

Pug with Fiocchi 22 WMR (not short barrel ammo)

Stats - Average        887.12  fps
Stats - Highest        942.66  fps
Stats - Lowest         853.18  fps
Stats - Ext. Spread     89.48  fps
Stats - Std. Dev        36.97  fps

BugOut II with Speer Gold Dot - Short barrel 22 WMR

Stats - Average        932.18  fps
Stats - Highest        948.66  fps
Stats - Lowest         896.85  fps
Stats - Ext. Spread     51.81  fps
Stats - Std. Dev        21.67  fps

At the highest velocity the Bugout II only beat the Pug by 8.71 fps and as an average was only 7.51 fps higher.  The BugOut II ended up with the lowest velocity.  The kinetic energy at the muzzle for the Pug averaged 75.4 ft-lbf and the BugOut II averaged 76.6.  A difference of 1.2 ft-lbf.

The LabRadar stores a lot of data on a SD card.  There's readings for each round roughly every 2 milliseconds while the round is in the radar cone until it can no longer be seen by the LabRadar. Here's the data for the first Speer Gold Dot out of the Pug:

Time (s)   Vel (fps)          Dist (yd)   SNR
0           918.38           0      -
0.021021   906.51      6.38      36.01
0.023021   906.36      6.99      34.73
0.025021   903.95      7.59      34.03
0.027021   904.5      8.19      33.62
0.029021   902.67      8.79      32.52
0.031021   902.04      9.4      31.11
0.033021   902.31      10      31.09
0.035021   899.41      10.6      30.23
0.037021   899.65      11.2      30.12
0.039021   897.71      11.8      29.69
0.041021   896.36      12.4      29
0.043021   897.15      12.99   29.65
0.045021   894.56      13.59   28.24
0.047021   895.2      14.19   27.15
0.049021   892.78      14.78   26.41
0.051021   892.04      15.38   25.59
0.053021   892.86      15.97   23.87
0.055021   892.89      16.57   24.66
0.057021   888.8      17.16   24.6
0.059021   889.3      17.75   23.44
0.061021   888.18      18.35   24.54
0.063021   888.95      18.94   23.08
0.065021   887.14      19.53   23.06
0.067021   886.32      20.12   23.19
0.069021   885.71      20.71   25.63
0.071021   883.54      21.3      23.04
0.073021   883.58      21.89   22.64
0.075021   880.59      22.48   20.35
0.077021   880.29      23.07   18.69
0.079021   883.3      23.66   20.28
0.081021   880.28      24.24   19.61
0.083021   879.9      24.83   20.75
0.085021   878.05      25.42   17.48
0.087021   876.21      26      19.88
0.089021   876.1      26.58   18.47
0.091021   876.73      27.17   15.4
0.093021   875.95      27.75   18.58
0.097021   869.82      28.92   8.55
0.101021   865.86      30.07   12.94
0.103021   860.58      30.65   14.95
0.105021   868.15      31.23   16.74
0.107021   859.32      31.8      19.16
0.109021   854.46      32.37   18.66
0.111021   861.07      32.94   17.14
0.113021   857.99      33.52   12.65
0.115021   857.61      34.09   13.08
0.117021   858.18      34.66   14.25
0.121021   852.88      35.8      14.33
0.125021   857.83      36.94   12.47
0.129021   856.88      38.09   8.32
0.131021   857.84      38.66   11.37
0.133021   859.95      39.23   9.82
0.135021   849.22      39.8      15.36
0.143021   846.88      42.06   10.85
0.147021   846.39      43.19   9.32
0.149021   841.53      43.75   11.44
0.151021   847.51      44.32   11.41
0.153021   834.52      44.88   11.49
0.157021   836.27      45.99   8.4
0.159021   830.03      46.55   8.34
0.161021   835.41      47.1      15.84
0.163021   834.06      47.66   11
0.167021   835.46      48.77   13.64
0.169021   838.42      49.33   13.33
0.171021   837.08      49.89   11.93
0.173021   825.97      50.44   10.1
0.175021   833.43      50.99   11.93
0.179021   844.17      52.11   9.89
0.183021   851.38      53.24   8.95
0.197021   844.65      57.2      7.38
0.209021   833.72      60.56   8.08


I eventually plan on getting some better numbers on the Pug and BugOut II including several different types of 22 LR.  But right now I'm a bit focused on the 22 rifle as I'm using it to compete. (If getting your butt kicked is competing.) 
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Uncle_Lee

Thanks Bill,
That is very interesting.
Answers some of the questions that bounce around in my mind.
God, Country, & Flag

LET'S GO BRANDON ( he is gone to the beach )

Canoeal

It wqould be interesting to see the difference in the 2" barreled Black Widow.
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke

grayelky

Guns are a lot like parachutes:

"If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again"

ray

canoeal this is what i use to hunt with in black widow @ revolvers. it is close to naa  on there web page  22 stinger 3 shot 1098 high 1090 med 1050 low    22 mag use honady 30 gr v max high 1381 med 1375 low 1371   tested 22mag  cci maxi mag 40 gr 3 shot 1039  med 998  low 950

Warthog

Thank you Bill Meek!

This is very helpful to me.  I have both US Made Fiochi WMR and Gold Dot WMR.  This helps me see why I choose the Gold Dot over my practice ammo, Fiochi.  I use some Gold Dot too to make sure it does what I expect and hits where I aim too.  Great Info Bill!
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
-Albert Einstein

billmeek

Quote from: Canoeal on June-19-18 09:06
It wqould be interesting to see the difference in the 2" barreled Black Widow.

Sorry.  I don't have a Black Widow yet and don't plan on purchasing one until NAA offers it with the XS night sights.  Once I get a Black Widow in hand, I will provide some data on it too. 
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

billmeek

Warty,

I carry the Speer Gold Dots in both of my NAAs, but use the (US made) Fiocchi for my practice ammo.  It's considerably less expensive than the Gold Dot ammo to shoot.  I'll likely buy some other 22 Mag ammo over time and test them too.  I'll share any data I have.

If anyone in Middle Tennessee (or from elsewhere) wants to come by my local range, I'm more than willing to let them use the LabRadar with their firearms.
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Canoeal

Yeah, I carry Gold Dots in the BW, and Hornady Critical Defense in the 4" CA. But when I go down to the range for real practice, I shoot the stuff in guns and having been carried in pouches, then I use Maxi Mag HP+V 30 grains, Because they work in both guns and are way cheaper than the SD rounds.
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke

Boisesteve

Back in 2017 I tested 8 different brands of 22mag in my 1 5/8" mini and posted the results.
The three winners based on energy were Win SuperX 40 gr. (1116fps, 111 ft.lbs energy), CCI Maximag 30gr. polypointed (1284 fps, 110 ft. lbs energy) and Hornady Crit. Defense 45 gr. (1038 fps, 108 ft. lbs energy.)  In my revolver, the Speer GoldDot 40gr. ran at 950 fps for 80 ft. lbs.
The Winchester ammo had some misfires, the CCI and Hornady had none. So I carry the CCI 30 gr. Maxi with the polymer pointed tip for maximum penetration.  I've not seen testing where these little bullets at these velocities expand all that much, so I'm looking for the deepest penetration (and reliability!!!) in what I choose to carry. Otherwise I think the Hornady would also be excellent. 
Remember, every gun/ammo combination is an experiment in itself. YMMV.
Be well all, Boise Steve

billmeek

A couple of youtube videos that I used to help make my ammo selection:

Hornady Critical Defense 22WMR 22 Magnum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hy9LzT-VWM

Speer Gold Dot 22WMR - Short barrel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o

Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Canoeal

#11
Those videos were part of the reason why I decided on the Gold Dots for the BW. I use the GD or the Hornadys in the CA with the four inch barrel because the extra velocity out of the 4" allows the Hornady to penetrate and expand. The difference between 1050 and 1250 fps is enough to get the Hornadys to do their job.Could just use the GD...but since both are a little hard to find, I buy both when I find them at a good price.
Other tests I ran into all had the GD at a higher velocity, than the heavier Hornady, but most showed better penetration for the heavier bullets especially when they only partially expanded. Both do a better job in expansion than rifle rounds did... But some rifle rounds penetrated deeper... You take your pick. YMMV..

BTW, CCI Maxi mag HP+V 30 grains are my backup to those two.
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke