Colt Det Special??

[gonzoman1]

Was snoopin around at a local gunshop and noticed they had a recent trade in on display, a Colt Detective Special in .38. This thing appears to be almost new, however, I have very little experience with Colts and I noticed it was aluminum and weighed about the same if not less than my trusty 637. Im curious because I thought the Det Specials were mostly if not all steel? This thing barely has a cylinder ring, maybe 50 rounds through it tops. The bluing appears to be almost painted on and am suspecting a re-blue. Does anybody have any experience with these? It looks almost too good to be true, he said he would give me an LEO discount of $450 out the door (asking 495). With six shots instead of 5, Im seriosly considering picking it up just because...

[bill_deshivs]

All Detective Specials were steel frames. None were painted. Something's not right.

[gonzoman1]

Yeah thats what I thought. This is the same guy that sold me a Keltec with a f'd up bolt that had to be sent out so Im kinda leery in the first place. Thanks man, I appreciate it.

[cedarview kid]

Sounds like a decent deal to me! I've wanted one of those for years.

[heyjoe]

it might be a colt cobra

   

   

   

   

[louiethelump]

Cobra and I believe agents are aluminum frame.  Det spcl is steel.  NONE have painted finish.  Sounds like an aluminum frame gun with Duracote re-finish.

   

   Good guns if mechanically sound.  DO NOT use the aluminum gun with +P ammo.

[franco22]

Louie,the Agents do have aluminum frames.

[gonzoman1]

Heyjoe, it is exactly like the second one you have pictured with the tapered barrel. Def aluminum framed. Does anyone own one of these that can comment on the original finish, Im still curious as to if this was a re-blue/ duracoat. Like I said, the gun doesn't have a scratch on it, even on the frame where the cylinder locks up and the grips. If it is in fact an aluminum framed agent, would 450 be a decent price?

[gonzoman1]

They also had an Iver Johnson .22 target revolver that I had not seen before. Approx 6" barrel with special wooden target grips, I think it was a 9 shot. Appeared to be in pretty decent shape and it locked up  tight, the cylinder is kinda a pain in the ••• to get out though. He said he could do that one for $150 out the door...hmmmmmm.

[gonzoman1]

Ok...Sorry to keep  posting, but I found one just like it on Gunbroker after doing a little digging:http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=283530477">http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=283530477

   It has the same finish as this one which I can only describe as a shiny almost lacquered bluing, so Im guessing it is the original finish. Compared to the asking price for this one, $450 doesn't sound too bad. One more question, My Dept issues +p 125gr Nyclads as our carry ammmo in .38. This is a very mild +p and from what I gather is actually on the tail end of regular pressure ammo into +p territory ammo barely. Would this be safe to run 50 rounds through for qualification only (and use in SD if needed) if standard pressure ammo was solely used for practice? To give you guys an idea of how much I shoot, I prob have close to 4k rounds through my 637...

[heyjoe]

Gonzoman there is a colt forum and if you ask about and post a picture of the gun they would probably have a better idea than anyone here.

   

   probably not on the +P. its probably a 50 plus year old gun and aluminum frames from that time and even now are prone to cracking in the area of the frame where the barrel is screwed in. Even if it doesnt crack it may loosen the cylinder. again they might have a better idea on the colt forum.  

   

   i understand about having to qualify with what you carry.

[louiethelump]

The one in the picture link you posted appears to be the original anodizing.  Aluminum does not blue.  The barrel is steel and is blued.  If the one you are looking at in the store looks like the one in the photo it is probably original.  They never get the aluminum anodizing to exactly match the blue.  That price is in the ball park and if the gun times properly (Colts have a tendency to get out of time) you should be good.  Just use standard pressure ammo.  

   

   They are actually nice guns.

   

   best of luck

   

   Louie

[mndoug]

You know what they say:  "Shoot Smith & Wesson, but collect Colt."

[boone123]

I have a Colt Cobra with a 4 inch barrel. Early model. Has plastic stocks. Marked LW on frame under the crane, for light weight. Also has a K on there. Nice gun, but the worn bluing isn't special. Never been shot much.

[heyjoe]

do you know how much it weighs

[boone123]

Heyjoe.

   Close as I can tell, maybe just a hair short of 18 0z. Thats based on a couple of scales, one of which is a candy scale.

   Grips are really light

[boone123]

I went and looked under Cobras and it said in one place,they weigh approximately 15oz. That was the short barrel.

[heyjoe]

similar weight and size to smith and wesson model 12. nice gun.

[heyjoe]

[boone123]

Thats a good looking gun. I can't even remember ever handling one.

[heyjoe]

its the same gun as the model 10 except lightweight. originally they had aluminum cylinders and were used by aircrews, but the aluminum didnt work out too well for the cylinder. its a 6 shot .38

[boone123]

Almost all the time my intrest goes to guns with adjustable sights, even if they are a waste on some guns, but not always. I like old Colt SA, but with Ruger SAs I want adjustable sights. I will probably never be a real cowboy. I have an old Model 60 S&W that I like, and will keep, unlike the ones I had and sold for whatever reason.

[louiethelump]

Joe:  did you know that the model 12 is actually thinner than a model 10, and takes a special thinner hammer and trigger and the grips are different to compansate?  It is difficult to see this unless you compare them side by side, or try to put a regular K frame target hammer into a model 12 and find out the frame won't close due to the thicker hammer.

   

   Just a little trivia there since it is a discussion board.

   

   Louie

[boone123]

I saw that when I looked up the model 12, but I thought everybody knew that but me,

[heyjoe]

no i didnt know that. i will add that to my base of knowledge. thanks.

[bud]

The subject of Colt Detective Special generations depends on which collector you're talking to.

   

   Some say the 1st Gen ran from the late 20's (when it was introduced) until the early thirties when Colt changed the grips design. Giving it more flare and rounding it at the bottom. They consider that the 2nd Gen and then they count the changes (mostly cosmetic) made after WWII to be the 3rd Gen. The 4th Gen is the totally redesigned frame (heavy barrel, full lug protecting the ejector rod along with the shorter grip frame, wrap around wood grips and a ramped front sight) to be the 4th Gen or the Post-1971 Model. The changes made after WWII were a mix of cosmetic and engineering. For awhile Colt replaced the wooden grips with plastic grips which the company called "Colt wood". Eventually the wood grips returned. The checkering on the trigger face and cylinder latch were dropped. The ejector rod was lengthened almost to the end of the barrel to aid with more efficent ejection of empties and the front site was flattened towards the rear (doing away with the half circle design) and serrated to cut down on glare. That's one classification system.

   

   There are some who call all the Colt DS models up until 1971/72 to be the "First Issue" and everything after 1971/72 to be "Second Issue". Pretty broad, but simple.

   

   Then, finally, we have the classification system that we here at imfdb have choosen to go with. All Colt DS revolver made up to and through WW II are considered 1st Generation. Believe it or not Colt made a small number of Detective Specials during the war. Supposedly for use by O.S.S. agents. The Second Generation is the Post-WWII Detective Special up until 1971/72.

[heyjoe]

werent they also made for a while in 32 long?

[louiethelump]

32 Colt New Police actually is what they called it.  Identical to the 32 S&W Long other than a flat nosed bullet.  Renaming it allowed them to avoid putting the "S&W" on their Colt gun for the chambering marking.  Otherwise identical and either will work in either gun, so "yes" is the answer to your question.

   

   More gun trivia...

   

   

   Sorry.  Louie

[therevjay]

I've read that back around the turn of the 20th century when the military was useing revolvers chambered for .38 Colt long. S&W invented the .38 Govt. ctg. To avoid putting the hated "C" word on theirs.

   

   Colt was not very consistant with markings regarding the .32 & .38 S&W clones. I've seen them called Colt new police, New police, Colt police, Colt NP, and the Pocket positive I have is just stamped .32 Police ctg.

[louiethelump]

Well, there were two cartridges.  The 32 Colt, which was like a 22lr with the bullet and the case the same dimension, an outside lubed bullet, etc. This was the round the guns bought for the NY PD by Teddy Roosevelt were chambered for. Then later, to compete with the S&W 32 they came out with the 32 Colt New police which as I said above was a duplicate of the S&W round and is NOT interchangeable.   the 32 Colt NP and the 32 S&W long are both inside lubed with the case larger than the bullet.

[pietro]

The Police Positive, Diamondback, Dective Special, Banker's Special, Commando Special, Cobra, Courier, Marshal, Magnum Carry & Agent were all 6-shot revolvers, made on what Colt termed the "D-frame", variously chambered in .22LR (Banker's Special & Courier),.32 Colt, .32 New Police, .32-20, .38 New Police, .38 Special, & .357 Mag (Magnum Carry).

   

   .

[bumbazine]

I have a very early (1910) Police Positive Target .22 with what I was told, by somebody on the Colt Forum, is a 'G' frame. (Narrower than a 'D' frame.)

   Not disputing you Pietro, just trying to add information.

[bud]

My detective special was made in 1969.  

   When was yours made?

   

                

   

   Serial Number Table

              Police Positive & Det. Special

                

      1908         1 - 12999

      1909         13000 - 22499

      1910         22500 - 35499

      1911         35500 - 50999

      1912         51000 - 64999

      1913         65000 - 89999

      1914         90000 - 109999

      1915         110000 - 124999

      1916         125000 - 142999

      1917         143000 - 144999

      1918         145000 - 161999

      1919         162000 - 189999

      1920         190000 - 224999

      1921         225000 - 241999

      1922         242000 - 269999

      1923         270000 - 282999

      1924         283000 - 308999

      1925         309000 - 324999

      1926         325000 - 330999

   Colt Detective Special was first produced    1927         331000 - 332999

      1928         333000 - 372999

      1929         373000 - 382999

      1930         383000 - 399999

      1931         400000 - 404999

      1932         405000 - 411999

      1933         412000 - 422999

      1934         423000 - 434999

      1935         435000 - 443999

      1936         444000 - 451999

      1937         452000 - 456999

      1938         457000 - 466999

      1939         467000 - 470999

      1940         471000 - 473999

      1941         474000 - 476999

      1942         477000 - 478999

      1943         479000 - 479499

      1944         479500 - 479999

      1945         480000 - 480999

      1946         481000 - 490000

   Second Variation Detective Specials Start    1947         490001 - 493999      .32 NP Introduced

      1948         494000, 510001

      1949         501600-1817 - 515051-9410 - 525001

      1950         542400 - 571499

      1951         571500 - 607399

      1952         607400 - 624849

      1953         624850 - 648899

      1954         648900 - 662649

      1955         662650 - 672049

      1956         672050 - 695399

      1957         695400 - 710599

      1958         710600 - 725599

      1959         725600 - 749999

      1960         750000 - 776399

      1961         776400 - 797499

      1962         797500 - 819499

      1963         819500 - 839499

      1964         839500 - 861499

      1965         861500 - 890799

      1966         890800 , D900101 - 925999

      1967         D926000 - 958499

      1968         D958500 - 994999

      1969         D995000 - D998715, A10000 - A43499  

      1970         A43500 - A59999, B01001 - B23000

      1971         B23001 - B49000

   Third Variation Detective Specials Start    1972         B49001 - B59999, C01001 - C26000

      1973         C26001 - C60000, F01001 - F08800

      1974         F08801 - F60000, H01001 - H18100

      1975         H18101 - H60000, M01001 - M29600

      1976         M29601 - M51999, 01001M - 19200M

      1977         19201M - 59999M, 01001R - 11700R

      1978         11701R - 59999R, S01001

[chopprs]

Bumbazine, can you post a pic of the .22?

[bumbazine]

Tell you what Chopprs, how about I point you to the thread I started on the Colt forum when I bought it. There's a few decent pictures there and some discussion by some folks who know a lot more than I do about these old Colts. Go here: http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/44636-police-positive-22-a.html">http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/44636-police-positive-22-a.html

   

   BTW, I have decided that it was indeed re-blued and re-barrelled. It's also a lot of fun to shoot, but not terribly accurate for me, or maybe I just need to learn how to hold it.