Make Your Own Hollow Point 22LR

[billmeek]

I've recently been fiddling around with modifying and testing 22LR ammo for accuracy.  But I've also been considering modifying 22LR ammo for self-defense too.  From some of my earlier ballistics testing, the Aguila Interceptors are some quick 22LR rounds out of my Pug.  What would happen if you converted it to a hollow point?

From left to right: CCI Standard Velocity 40 grain, Aguila Interceptor 40 grain (note the factory flat point), and an Aguila Interceptor 40 grain resized and hollow pointed. 

Yes, converting it to a hollow point deformed the copper wash.  But it also made a deep hollow point and resized the round from .223 to .225 which puts it in match grade diameter territory.  What you are looking at is a .1415 hollow point in a .225 bullet without sacrificing any of the 40 grain bullet weight.

In another thread, Rick joked about me doing ballistics gel testing next.  Eventually (which I expect to be a long way down the road) I want to test it in ballistics gel to see what this little beastie can do compared to other rounds.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Like it.

This is not new. My dad was on USS Wasp CV 18. A sub would pull along side and off load a bunch of Rangers just pulled off some island. They did not talk or mix with the crew. They would make camp in the hanger deck and rest. What they asked for was the old eggbeater hand drills. They spent there time drilling out the bullets for the next raid. Next morning they were gone. Another island to hit.

[OV-1D]

  Did anyone mention liquid mercury . Huummm .

[smokeless joe]

Like it.

This is not new. My dad was on USS Wasp CV 18. A sub would pull along side and off load a bunch of Rangers just pulled off some island. They did not talk or mix with the crew. They would make camp in the hanger deck and rest. What they asked for was the old eggbeater hand drills. They spent there time drilling out the bullets for the next raid. Next morning they were gone. Another island to hit.

My father was also on the Wasp. Korean War era.

[bill_deshivs]

While you may have mashed the bullet enough to increase the diameter, you couldn't possibly keep the bullet weight. You removed part of the bullet!
I see no advantage over factory .22 LR hollow points. If there is, tell me about it.

[billmeek]

If there is a change in bullet weight, then my digital scale can't pick up the difference and it's accurate to 0.01 G.  The advantage is that I can pick a round, such as the Aguila Interceptor which is the fastest 40 grain I've fired in the Pug, and size the hollow portion of the bullet to my preference.  A good example is the round I posted the photo of may have too much of a cavity.  It could decrease the penetration too much or possibly even fracture because of the relatively thin walls of the bullet. I can adjust the depth of the cavity thereby adjusting the diameter of the hollow portion of the bullet.  What factory hollow point works well in a rifle, which is what manufacturers tend to build ammo for, may not be the best for a short barrel such as on the NAA pistols.  I'm experimenting because I'm curious and it's just fun to do!

When working with accuracy tips, I've gone to the extreme of making some wadcutters (flattening the entire tip) out of 22LR.  While they fired fine, they would not feed from a magazine in my 22 rifles and were less accurate.  From my testing so far, only a small amount of adjustment is required on CCI SV to add accuracy.  I believe that the small accuracy increases seen to date have nothing to do with the shape of the tip of the bullet, but instead are attributed to resizing the bullet getting it from .222 to .225 diameter which is the same as Eley bullets.  Please note that the accuracy increases I'm seeing are nominal at best.  In day-to-day shooting it wouldn't make a difference.  But when I'm shooting NRL22 matches, every little advantage I can get without breaking the bank helps.

[Boisesteve]

Bill, what bullet-forming tool do you use?  Commercially made, or did you make your own?
Thanks, Steve in Boise

[bbgun]

Did anyone ever hear of carving an X on the bullet tip to make aa dum-dum bullet?  At least I think that is what it is called.  Sounds like it would expand pretty well.

[billmeek]

Steve,

I'm using a Neal Waltz resizing die and 2 different Lee presses.  The hand-held press works best for consistency and is convenient to take to the range for testing.

[billmeek]

bbgun,

Yes, I've heard of people adding crosses to rounds to make them expand.  On 22LR rounds I think getting them centered might be difficult and have an adverse effect on accuracy at longer range.

[lefty dude]

Lots of info on the subject ,rimfirecentral.com

[bill_deshivs]

You need a new scale, then. Your HP cavity is much larger than the cavity on 36 gr. .22 LR. It would have to weigh less than 40 gr..
I doubt any hollow point will expand from the mini revolver barrels under 3".

[billmeek]

Barrel length has nothing to do with expansion of a hollow point except the velocity and kinetic energy imparted to the bullet.  If there is sufficient energy when impacting then it'll expand.  CCI makes supressor hollow points with a rated speed of 970 fps that expand well.  Given the average velocity of the Aguila Interceptor out of the Pug is 943 fps at the barrel/ 893 fps at 10 yards, I'd estimate there is a good chance of expansion as long as the bullet doesn't tumble.  I'm not hunting squirrels with the Pug at 25+ yards.  I'm looking for expansion at 5 yards or less.

There's nothing wrong with the scale.  I'm not milling out the bullet removing material.  The hollow point tip presses into the bullet and displaces the lead outward to fill the die.  The only loss in weight might be a minute amount of copper wash or wax lubricant. Look closely at the picture I posted earlier in this thread.  The unmodified Interceptor (middle) narrows just above the driving bands while the hollow point (on the right) is significantly larger in diameter.

[Uncle_Lee]

While you may have mashed the bullet enough to increase the diameter, you couldn't possibly keep the bullet weight. You removed part of the bullet!
I see no advantage over factory .22 LR hollow points. If there is, tell me about it.

They don't weigh as much therefore you can carry more ammo.

[grayelky]

I thought you were drilling the hole. As I understand it now, you are pressing a die into the lead and forcing the hole, which is causing the expansion. Nice.

Try using various size plastic bottles filled with water for some expansion tests.

[pennsy]

All the penetration test I have seen with 22lr only show marginal depths even out of rifle length barrels. Ok for small game but for carry in the urban jungle, I want a solid 12 inches minimum.

[Canoeal]

You need a new scale, then. Your HP cavity is much larger than the cavity on 36 gr. .22 LR. It would have to weigh less than 40 gr..
I doubt any hollow point will expand from the mini revolver barrels under 3".

Hornady CD and Gold Dots expand out of a 2" barreled BW. As proof, I offer pictures of both, shot into water jugs...Gold Dot first...

[pennsy]

You need a new scale, then. Your HP cavity is much larger than the cavity on 36 gr. .22 LR. It would have to weigh less than 40 gr..
I doubt any hollow point will expand from the mini revolver barrels under 3".

Hornady CD and Gold Dots expand out of a 2" barreled BW. As proof, I offer pictures of both, shot into water jugs...Gold Dot first...

That is fine and dandy but if it only inflicts a surface wound , what good is expansion. Up to and including .380, expansion in probably not a good thing in short barrels. Starting in 9mm, different story.

[billmeek]

That is fine and dandy but if it only inflicts a surface wound , what good is expansion. Up to and including .380, expansion in probably not a good thing in short barrels. Starting in 9mm, different story.

You might want to look at this video about the NAA Black Widow and Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel (22Mag):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o

[MR_22]

I've seen various commercial products over the years that do this, like this one:

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/diy-extreme-hollow-point-maker-kit?a=891185

[pennsy]

That is fine and dandy but if it only inflicts a surface wound , what good is expansion. Up to and including .380, expansion in probably not a good thing in short barrels. Starting in 9mm, different story.

You might want to look at this video about the NAA Black Widow and Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel (22Mag):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o

That is impressive performance I must say.

[billmeek]

MR_22,

That's one I haven't seen before.  I looked at the Paco Kelly Acu'rzr and wasn't enthused with striking it with a mallet.  I don't see how to get consistent results with it.  The D Rock looked interesting and could be used with an Arbor press if you buy the adapter plate.  But unfortunately they aren't available anymore.

[billmeek]

pennsy,

That video along with some other information I found online is the reason I use Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel in my Pug.  I think it'd be great if we could come up with a solution close to that performance in a 22LR round out of the NAAs.

[bill_deshivs]

I understand now that you are swaging the hole, not drilling it.

[riadat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aRHyGS8b8

Hornady critical defense with the plug removed.

BTW, that is what I carry in 22 magnum.

[billmeek]

riadat,

Interesting results. I'd like to see the Hornady Critical Defense 22 Magnum with the tips removed compared directly to the Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel through the same test medium. 

[Canoeal]

You need a new scale, then. Your HP cavity is much larger than the cavity on 36 gr. .22 LR. It would have to weigh less than 40 gr..
I doubt any hollow point will expand from the mini revolver barrels under 3".

Hornady CD and Gold Dots expand out of a 2" barreled BW. As proof, I offer pictures of both, shot into water jugs...Gold Dot first...

That is fine and dandy but if it only inflicts a surface wound , what good is expansion. Up to and including .380, expansion in probably not a good thing in short barrels. Starting in 9mm, different story.

Gold dots in the 12" penetration range, Hornady has been rated anywhere from 11" to 15".the tnt is the only one that expanded and lost penetration, but that is a pest round for a rifle...

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/daniel-zimmerman/shootingthebull410-naa-black-widow/

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/daniel-zimmerman/shootingthebull410/

[pennsy]

I'm sticking with solids in 1 1/8" 22lr until someone can show me 12-18 inches penetration tests. The gold dot 22 mag was going about 1100 fps out of a 2" barrel in that STB video. That seems what is needed .

[Warthog]

I will stick with Gold Dot short barrel Mags for the magnums and plain ole solid copper plated rounds for the LR and Shorts.

[billmeek]

The gold dot 22 mag was going about 1100 fps out of a 2" barrel in that STB video.

In case you didn't see it, I gathered some basic ballistic data on a few different rounds out of the Pug:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=17318.msg165900#msg165900

If you look at the average velocities from the Speer Gold Dot Short barrel (22 Mag 40 grain) and the Aguila Interceptor (22LR 40 grain), they are not that far apart with the Interceptors having the slight speed advantage.  I suspect that opening the Interceptor up to a large hollow point will have some change to the BC (ballistic coefficient) which may slow down the bullet. 
 

[riadat]

I'm sticking with solids in 1 1/8" 22lr until someone can show me 12-18 inches penetration tests. The gold dot 22 mag was going about 1100 fps out of a 2" barrel in that STB video. That seems what is needed .

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/naa-22lr-mini-revolver-ammo-quest-results/

Best results were 36 grain cci mini mag.

40 grain solid lacked in cci

[pennsy]

Next order will include the 36 gr CCI. Until then 40 gr is all I have. Shot placement is # 1. Need to practice more with the new boot grip .

[billmeek]

I've been making some EPS tip CCI Standard Velocity for range practice.  The image below is a 100 rounds I kicked out pretty quickly using the hand press and resizing die.  The closest 10 rounds I used a plain old paper towel to wipe the excess waxy lube away before taking a quick picture.  Yes, I see the front left round has some down on the bullet.  It's already been removed. <grin>

Why wipe off the lube on the tip?  It's probably pretty silly time-wise... if I didn't do it while watching a movie.  But I really just down't want the flakes of lube dropping down into my freshly cleaned magazines.