NAA kit gun?

jdiddy · November-20-19 13:11

I was looking at different kit gun options to accompany a 357 or 44 revolver when on hiking/backpacking trips. Something that was lightweight but shootable for putting small game in the pot when I got the chance opportunity. My question is this: is one of the longer barreled models suitable for this task? What sort of accuracy at squirrel/rabbit distance can someone get with practice? Which model would you choose for this task? Thanks!!!!

smokeless joe · November-20-19 13:11

I'm not speaking from actual experience but I would assume that one of the 4" barrel models would be your best choice for accuracy.

grayelky · November-20-19 15:11

My favorite plinking mini is my 3" Earl. I have hit a nickel, dime and a quarter at about 30' with it. It would do for a trail gun. I would suggest you look into a Mini Master with both cylinders. I would get the fixed sighted version and shoot the day. lights out of it until I was comfortable I could hit what I wanted at the range you feel will be likely. Why not adjustable sights? Easy. I just don't care for the appearance, and over the years, I have very rarely adjusted the sights on any of my handguns.

If you are not familiar with the Mini Master, it is a 4" Black Widow.

Dinadan · November-20-19 16:11

I have not shot the four inch Minis. I find the three inch Earl to be quite accurate, as is the Black Widow. One of those would be my choice Mini for a game gun. However, if I were choosing a handgun for putting small game in the pot then I would take a Ruger Bearcat. Others may have a different experience, but in my hands the Bearcat is just more accurate than any of my Minis. Of course it weighs more than a Mini, but I would still choose the Bearcat.

MtGoat · November-20-19 16:11

The S&W 317 Kit guns are a 8 shot, light weight option as well.
They weigh in at a whooping 11.7 oz.
The down side is that they do not have the 22 mag option available with the mini's.

The Earl weights in at 8.3 oz, the Black Widow at 8.9 oz.
You can buy both of the NAA's for one S&W and have $ left for ammunition.

Pat

bearcatter · November-20-19 17:11

I have two stainless Bearcats, and really like them. They weigh 24 ounces, pretty light but no match for a mini. They are also about $600 street price new. One plus is that they are available with adjustable sights.

jdiddy · November-20-19 17:11

Thanks for the input everyone!! How are the sights on the Earl? It seems like the Black Widow sights or the Mini Master adjustable sights would be preferable. Shooting my 1 1/8 standard magnum accurately is quite a pain and a lot of it has to do with the sights.

Wumbey Goomba · November-20-19 17:11

Chiappa Badger

grumpyoleman · November-20-19 18:11

It is all a compromise, size vs accuracy. I would go with the 4 in earl with both cylinders. 12 foot minute of snake. Sights are a matter of practice.

Boisesteve · November-20-19 19:11

jdiddy,
I agree with gray above, both the Earl and MiniMaster would be excellent choices. My hiking companion when I'm in the foothills and near backcountry is a 4" Earl, and mine is completely as good as gray says his is, plus it's very light and I just don't notice its weight on my belt. Five rounds of 22mag in the Earl, plus the can of go-away that's next to it on the belt.
When I head back deeper into the mountains I carry 'Big Medicine', my 6 1/2" .357 Blackhawk loaded with Buffalo Bore or HSM 180gr. "Bear Load". It is of course much bigger and it's much more significant weight can't be ignored.
Below, my day hiking rig. I've posted about the holster before; it's a one-of-a-kind made for my Earl by Ben Wetzel at Idaho Leather the year before he passed. Cordura outer, suede inside.
Be well all, Steve in Boise

jdiddy · November-20-19 20:11

Quote from: Boisesteve on November-20-19 19:11
jdiddy,
I agree with gray above, both the Earl and MiniMaster would be excellent choices. My hiking companion when I'm in the foothills and near backcountry is a 4" Earl, and mine is completely as good as gray says his is, plus it's very light and I just don't notice its weight on my belt. Five rounds of 22mag in the Earl, plus the can of go-away that's next to it on the belt.
When I head back deeper into the mountains I carry 'Big Medicine', my 6 1/2" .357 Blackhawk loaded with Buffalo Bore or HSM 180gr. "Bear Load". It is of course much bigger and it's much more significant weight can't be ignored.
Below, my day hiking rig. I've posted about the holster before; it's a one-of-a-kind made for my Earl by Ben Wetzel at Idaho Leather the year before he passed. Cordura outer, suede inside.
Be well all, Steve in Boise

I really love your setup. How do you feel about the bead sight vs the adjustable or novak style? I definitely am after a light firearm because it will be accompanied by a .357 or maybe even a .44 on the belt. Especially on hike-in hunting trips in black bear country. I don't want to carry two full size and weight handguns.

Canoeal · November-20-19 23:11

I'll stick with the CA Target Pathfinder as a kit gun, but the BW will still be in the pocket.

Oh, and I personally would forget the adjustable sights on the BW and Mini Master...Never right when you would need them.

top dog · November-21-19 06:11

JDIDDY,
If it is a 22 for a kit gun,then I would suggest the Black Widow or a Charter Pathfinder in 2 or 4 " bbl. Of course,there would be nothing wrong with a Mini Master.

If you are looking for a 357,then my choice would be the Ruger SP-101 3 inch.

Bottom line is what you are most comfortable with.

Top Dog

Boisesteve · November-21-19 14:11

J,
The bead sight on the Earl is just fine. With the rear groove in the frame it makes a decent flash sight picture and is as accurate as I can expect. It is not a micrometer sight target pistol.
The big Ruger of course has an adjustable sight and is super accurate. With both revolvers, I am the limiting factor.
Hope this helps, Steve in Boise

Dinadan · November-21-19 16:11

Quote from: Boisesteve on November-21-19 14:11
J,
The bead sight on the Earl is just fine. With the rear groove in the frame it makes a decent flash sight picture and is as accurate as I can expect. It is not a micrometer sight target pistol.
The big Ruger of course has an adjustable sight and is super accurate. With both revolvers, I am the limiting factor.
Hope this helps, Steve in Boise

I agree that the Earl sight works very well. Simple, small, and accurate. I hve never cared for adjustable sights on any handgun. Basically, my eyes and hands are the limiting factor for accuracy.

Canoeal · November-21-19 17:11

My CA 4' Target Pathfinder has adjustable sights that work. I replaced the adjustable sights on my BW with fixed because they kept coming loose.

Cary Gunn · November-21-19 18:11

Howdy jdiddy,

If by "trail gun" you're meaning a conveniently packable handgun for a day's hike in the timber, with it's use primarily as a snake-killer, plinker and occasional bunny- or squirrel-buster, I'd nominate the Black Widow with a Long Rifle cylinder.

With my BW, I'm able to hold 5-shot groups of 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 12 to 15 yards. Thus, I consider the tiny revolver a legitimate close-range "skillet filler," as I can maintain "rabbit head" accuracy at the afore-mentioned distance. The BW's semi-adjustable sights (adjustable for windage, but not elevation) are an advantage here that most of the other mini-revolvers lack.

With CCI, most Winchester and most Remington Long Rifle ammo, my BW has allowed me to drift-adjust windage to place my shot groups dead-on at 12 yards. Luckily, elevation with LR ammo has been spot-on, a fortunate occurrence since the sights are not elevation-adjustable.

Unfortunately, my BW's .22 Magnum cylinder places it's groups a couple inches higher than point-of-aim, and there's no way to correct for that. I restrict my magnum cylinder to occasional personal-protection carry, which would be a very close-range affair where a couple inches difference would be likely meaningless.

Were decent adjustable sights available on the longer-barreled "Sheriff" or "Earl" mini-revolvers, they might be my ultimate choice for an extremely lightweight trail gun . Sadly, their sights are wholly non-adjustable. Thus, getting them to place their groups precisely to point-of-aim at any particular distance would strictly be a "luck-of-the-draw" thing.

Of course, the Mini Master, with its' fully adjustable sights would be a good consideration, but its' increased size and bulk mean, at least for me, that it's no longer a true "pocket gun." For belt-holster carry, though, it certainly merits consideration.

Something like the "old-school" Smith and Wesson Mod. 34 Kit Gun with 4-inch barrel would be even better for belt carry, if the slightly increased weight and bulk could be tolerated.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

jdiddy · November-21-19 20:11

Thanks for the responses everyone!! The main reason I am so concerned about weight is that the 22 gun will be accompanied by a larger bore handgun weighing near 40 ounces and a hunting rifle as well as all of my camping supppies. That weight adds up fast. I would not mind the S&W kit gun at all, but cost seems to be a prohibiting factor, with it selling for around 700 dollars.

Edit: by S&W kit gun I was referring to the 317 model

Canoeal · November-21-19 21:11

Take a look at the CA pathfinders...

https://charterfirearms.com/collections/pathfinder

jdiddy · November-21-19 21:11

Quote from: Canoeal on November-21-19 21:11
Take a look at the CA pathfinders...

https://charterfirearms.com/collections/pathfinder

Those read as 24 ounces on the website, a full 12 ounces heavier that the S&w kit gun and even more so than the NAAs. For 25 ounces I could have a Ruger Mark IV Lite.

Canoeal · November-22-19 10:11

The S&W 317 is a 3" barrel in 22 lr only. I prefer my CA as it is a 4" barrel and in 22 mag, same as my BW. As always, you get what you pay for. Lighter is usually more expensive especially in my business. Charter does have the UL versions in a 2" barrel at 12 oz, at less than the price of a S&W, some places they can be found near half.

KEN AR · November-22-19 19:11

For a Kit gun if you are looking for light weight I'd do the Mini Master. Get accuracy and a longer sight radius for not much more weight than the Black Widow.

Uncle_Lee · November-23-19 04:11

I keep looking at the "small of the back" holster for the Mini Master and really drooling.

red14 · November-23-19 07:11

Quote from: jdiddy on November-20-19 20:11
Quote from: Boisesteve on November-20-19 19:11
jdiddy,
I agree with gray above, both the Earl and MiniMaster would be excellent choices. My hiking companion when I'm in the foothills and near backcountry is a 4" Earl, and mine is completely as good as gray says his is, plus it's very light and I just don't notice its weight on my belt. Five rounds of 22mag in the Earl, plus the can of go-away that's next to it on the belt.
When I head back deeper into the mountains I carry 'Big Medicine', my 6 1/2" .357 Blackhawk loaded with Buffalo Bore or HSM 180gr. "Bear Load". It is of course much bigger and it's much more significant weight can't be ignored.
Below, my day hiking rig. I've posted about the holster before; it's a one-of-a-kind made for my Earl by Ben Wetzel at Idaho Leather the year before he passed. Cordura outer, suede inside.
Be well all, Steve in Boise

I really love your setup. How do you feel about the bead sight vs the adjustable or novak style? I definitely am after a light firearm because it will be accompanied by a .357 or maybe even a .44 on the belt. Especially on hike-in hunting trips in black bear country. I don't want to carry two full size and weight handguns.

My 3'' Earl is very accurate, especially with the oversized grips.

Cary Gunn · November-23-19 13:11

Dang me if I don't agree with "KEN AZ" and "Uncle Lee."

Their 4" and 6" Mini-Masters sure look like fine, lightweight trail/kit guns, if a belt holster is the preferred means of carry.

Neither revolver really qualifies as a "pocket gun," but that doesn't matter a bit if you're carrying in a belt holster.

Happy trails, and straight shootin',

-- Cary Gunn --

seaotter · December-09-19 09:12

If you are already carrying a larger firearm, I would consider the Black Widow. It is light enough, accurate enough, and with the right 22 wmr, powerful enough. In fact that's a good descriptor of the BW: it's enough of a firearm for most purposes.

Rick_Jorgenson · December-10-19 06:12

Quote from: uncle_lee on November-23-19 04:11
I keep looking at the "small of the back" holster for the Mini Master and really drooling.

I have done small of back Holsters for the Black Widow also Uncle_Lee

There are some photos posted here on another thread but, pour another cup of coffee, here it is again.

You should hear all the "experts" at gun shows talk about S.O.B. carry. 1/2 of them have a story about "a guy they knew" fell backwards and the gun broke his back and now he's in a wheelchair. That "guy" must have known half of everyone in the world! lol!!

Uncle_Lee · December-10-19 06:12

"You will shoot your eye out" with that BB gun.
I heard that a lot also.

RogueTS1 · December-11-19 14:12

"You'll break your back Rick!"

jstert · December-20-19 05:12

wouldn't the 2.5" sheriff be the best compromise in barrel length?

Canoeal · December-20-19 15:12

Quote from: jstert on December-20-19 05:12
wouldn't the 2.5" sheriff be the best compromise in barrel length?

Evidently wrong choice of cylinder pin...

Rick_Jorgenson · December-20-19 23:12

Quote from: RogueTS1 on December-11-19 14:12
"You'll break your back Rick!"

Well... that means half of the "gun experts" you talk to will know someone that knows me! lol!!

franco22 · December-21-19 09:12

I had a Charter Arms Pathfinder in 22 magnum that was a decent little gun. I traded into a S&W 351c so the Pathfinder found a new home. I've been looking at the Mini Master for awhile and will probably end up with one down the line.

jstert · December-27-19 07:12

Quote from: Canoeal on December-20-19 15:12
Quote from: jstert on December-20-19 05:12
wouldn't the 2.5" sheriff be the best compromise in barrel length?

Evidently wrong choice of cylinder pin...

please school me on the sheriff model. i'm new here, but loving my 22lr bugout1 with cv grips.

Canoeal · December-27-19 19:12

If you are using a BO and are good with it the Sheriff has the same pin. At a 2.5" barrel length of the Sheriff it is just a little long for me to be comfortable in my pocket. Otherwise I would own one.

Try this and look at specs.

https://northamericanarms.com/product-category/firearms/1860-magnums-the-sheriff-earl-hogleg/sheriff/