Fully-adjustable sights for NAA's smaller guns

[Cary Gunn]

Gents,

I wonder how many forum members join me in the belief that the NAA company is missing a market-niche opportunity in not providing small, fully-adjustable sights for it's "mid-sized" revolvers.

The 1 5/8-inch barreled Mini-revolver, the 2-inch Black Widow, and the 2 1/2-inch Sheriff and Ranger II are all capable of producing "rabbit-head" sized groups at ranges of 10 yards and greater.  Thus, they would all qualify as useful ultra-lite trails guns, if only the tight groups they are capable of producing could be placed precisely at point-of-aim.

Of the four revolvers mentioned above, only the Black Widow has adjustable sights, and those sights are adjustable only for windage.  To be truly useful as a pocketable trail/kit gun, sight elevation adjustment is also needed. 

While the Mini-Master revolver has fully adjustable sights, I believe that gun's 4-inch barrel and high-sitting, snag-prone sights take it out the convenient "pocket-gun" category.

I'd like to see smaller, yet fully-adjustable sights available on NAA's smaller "mid-sized" revolver offerings.

Am I alone in that wish?

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

p.s. Yes, I realize the silliness of referring to any of NAA's tiny products as "mid-sized."  I use the term only subjectively, in relation to NAA's overall revolver line.

[Canoeal]

Adjustable sights on minis has already been the subject of other threads. I for one think they are overrated as mine wouldn't stay adjusted.
I took the adjustable sights off my BW, and after a little tinkering now have sights that shoot to POA. at7 yds. As proof I offer two photos:

[jdiddy]

I would love to see S&W style adjustables on a few models

[RogueTS1]

I would love to have the option to place XS Big Dot sights, such as on the Pug, on all my Minis. I would not hesitate in choosing them as an option when purchasing my Minis. 

[theysayimnotme]

If you want a target pistol, buy a target pistol. The minis are for up close & personal use. That said the NAA mini could be made a bit more useful if it had the hammer design of the Freedom Arms revolvers. There is a useful groove in the topstrap & it isn't blocked by the hammer. That of course is offset by the design of the front sight which has fallen off of a good many of them.

[Cary Gunn]

The NAA revolver line is certainly purchased by the bulk of us for nothing more than "up close and personal," as forum member "theysayimnotme" has stated.

But the little guns are capable of so much more than that, if the owner wishes to put in the time and practice needed to realize the tiny guns' accuracy potential.

Surely, many people think of the Black Widow as a barely capable "belly gun" at card-table distances.  And, if that's all you want to use it for, fine.  You're wrong, though, if you believe the little revolver is not useful for much, much more than that.

I know my Black Widow is capable of two-hand, standing, 25-yard, five-shot bullet groups of less than 6 inches.  I've filed target photos on this forum that show that capability.

In other words, my Black Widow will group in the head of a standard defense silhouette at 25 yards, and will produce "rabbit head" sized groups at half that distance.  And, I know there are people on this forum who shoot the little guns better than I do.

To take full advantage of that accuracy potential, fully adjustable sights are needed to place groups at point-of-aim. A revolver that places its groups 3 inches the side and 5 inches below a bullseye is not an "accurate" gun, even if it repeatedly groups its bullets in a 2-inch circle. It must be capable of placing its groups at point-of-aim.

That's why I'd like to see more the NAA revolvers fitted with fully adjustable sights.  That way, if a guy wants an ultra-lite, immanently pocketable trail companion to pot sitting rabbits and squirrels at 15 yards or so, he can have it -- if only the guns were fitted with decent sights.

I'd certainly pay extra for guns so equipped. 

Those who look at the NAA line as nothing more than "last-ditch, card-table defenders" could still purchase the fixed-sighted versions of the revolvers and live happily ever after.

We could easily have it both ways, and nobody would lose.  And NAA, as a company, could broaden their products' appeal, and sell more stuff.

At least, that's the way I view it.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[theysayimnotme]

I was referring in particular to the 1 1/8" & 1  5/8" revolvers. Note my comment about the Freedom Arms revolvers topstrap sight.
The design of those revolvers, in particular the hammer, make a rear sight very problematic. I believe there are laser sights that can serve that purpose.

[Rick_Jorgenson]

"The 1 5/8-inch barreled Mini-revolver, the 2-inch Black Widow, and the 2 1/2-inch Sheriff and Ranger II "
"Of the four revolvers mentioned above, only the Black Widow has adjustable sights, and those sights are adjustable only for windage.  To be truly useful as a pocketable trail/kit gun, sight elevation adjustment is also needed. "
-- Cary Gunn --

If I'm reading this correct I believe you are incorrect about the not being a height adjustment for the NAA Adjustable Sights. Please keep in mind I am no expert but do have some knowledge of the 4 different sets of sights that I have run across for the Black Widow & Mini Master.
Forgive me if I missed something... I'm not trying to start a rumble!    This is my experience with these sights...

The actual "Adjustable Sights" for the Black Widow do adjust for Height and Horizontal (The rear sight for height, both front and rear sights will adjust left & right.) I have had many customers mistake the "standard" sights as the "Adjustable Sights" because they have an hex nut holding them on (those do not allow for height adjustment) the "Adjustable Sights" rear sight is 2 piece.

Adjustable sights on minis has already been the subject of other threads. I for one think they are overrated as mine wouldn't stay adjusted.
I took the adjustable sights off my BW, and after a little tinkering now have sights that shoot to POA. at7 yds. As proof I offer two photos:

I too feel the "NAA Adjustable Sights" are more of a PITA than worth dealing with. The NAA guns have their place and limitations. They are small, light and easy to conceal if you care to.

I don't feel they are "adequate" for me to rely on them doing a 3" group at 25 yards consistently I'll use the tool for its intended purpose; That kind of shooting is for a different gun which will have the capability of a more consistent outcome of 3" group at 25 yards quicker, with less effort and expended energy.

I would love to have the option to place XS Big Dot sights, such as on the Pug, on all my Minis. I would not hesitate in choosing them as an option when purchasing my Minis. 

The Pug Sights are very visible. I think that is what most people like about them.

"We could easily have it both ways, and nobody would lose.  And NAA, as a company, could broaden their products' appeal, and sell more stuff."
-- Cary Gunn --

Not all of NAA's Guns are designed around the ability to install a dove tail type sight front and rear.  I think it would take major redesign of all the frames making other models look odd.  The difference's of models is what appeals too many owners. 

Having a large adjustable sight (and the additional sizing of the frame to accommodate it) on top of my 3", 4", 6" Earl is not something I'm thinking will make it aesthetically appealing. Or on my .22 Short! lol!! 

There does not seem to be an easy way to install any other sights on different model NAA's
#1 The machine work would be very specialized for each frame (after market)
#2 Those "one small size fits many" sights have not been developed yet
Both would be a significant cost to probably only make a few people happy.  My thought here is no, ROI for NAA or anyone else to take up the cause.

"Necessity is the mother of invention"! Anyone that has the tooling and ability to develop very small sights........ just sayin... could be a niche market! 

Again.... this is only my take on this thread, I'm no expert but I am willing to listen and learn.

Source's...
https://northamericanarms.com/shop/uncategorized/adjustable-sight-2/
(The photo is not correct of the adjustable sights) R.J.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/windage
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/How_to_adjust_an_iron_sight
https://grammarist.com/phrase/necessity-is-the-mother-of-invention/

[bearcatter]

Once they sight in a new gun, how often does someone actually re-adjust their adjustable sights? I've found over the years that I use them just like fixed sights. I don't re-adjust; I just remember a different sight picture for a different distance. My only adjustable sight handgun now is a .22 SP101. I haven't touched the sights since it first went to the range.....

[Cary Gunn]

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the info on the Marble Company after-market sight for the Black Widow.  I was unaware such a sight existed, and I'll certainly check it out.  If it's adjustable for BOTH windage and elevation, and, if it actually "holds" its settings, it's pretty much what I'm after.

The Marble sight sits somewhat higher on the top-strap than does the issue BW sight, but it's still significantly more compact than the very high and seemingly snag-prone issue sight of the Mini-Master revolver.

I also agree with you that NAA's little revolvers may be unlikely to reliably produce 3-inch groups at 25 yards.  They are, however, certainly capable of holding 3-inches at 10 to 15 yards, which is the distance I mentioned in my earlier post.

In my countryside tromps, I sometimes stumble onto small game at ranges under 15 yards.  It is those opportunities I'd like to take advantage of with the little handgun in my jean's pocket.  The Black Widow will allow me to do that, if I can place its groups "to the sights."

And, yes, certainly there are a host of other guns better-suited for purely small-game hunting, but none of them "pack" with the incredible "disappearing ease" of the little NAA's.

My Black Widow is the only gun I own that's likely to be always with me when occasional "targets of opportunity" appear.

And, here's a question for "Canoeal," who mentioned he once had a fully-adjustable sight on his BW, but replaced it because it wouldn't reliably hold its "zero."  What was the brand of that faulty sight, Al? Was it the Marble Company sight of which Rick speaks?

Let me know about the sights, 'cause I'm still trying to "perfect" my sweet, little Black Widow.

Happy trails, again,

-- Cary Gunn --

[Canoeal]

Mine were just like the ones pictured. Came on the gun from the factory. The screw that was supposed to lock them down was two treads into an aluminum sight. They had no chance that the tiny two thread screw was going to hold when firing mag rounds. It didn't.

I sent the front sight to someone on this forum, and I still have the rear sight somewhere. Here is the thread from the original Issue:

https://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=13028.msg114758#msg114758

[Rick_Jorgenson]

Hey Rick,

"Thanks for the info on the Marble Company after-market sight for the Black Widow.  I was unaware such a sight existed, and I'll certainly check it out.  If it's adjustable for BOTH windage and elevation, and, if it actually "holds" its settings, it's pretty much what I'm after.

The Marble sight sits somewhat higher on the top-strap than does the issue BW sight, but it's still significantly more compact than the very high and seemingly snag-prone issue sight of the Mini-Master revolver."
Happy trails, again,
-- Cary Gunn --

The Marble Company sights are the same "Drift-able" & "Adjustable" sights used on both the Black Widow & Mini Master

The "regular" sights are about 5mm tall and are "drift-able" only.

The "adjustable" sights are about 8mm tall and drift-able and the rear sight has a second Allen screw allowing the top piece to slide forward and backward allowing height adjustment.

[Canoeal]

Rick- Yes you are correct; and it was that second screw that wouldn't stay put on mine. Not saying on all of them but mine, nope.

[burncycle]

Love the pug, absolutely hate the sights especially the shallow V rear.  If conventional mini-mag sights like what Rick_Jorgenson posted (especially the smaller ones in his pics) were available for the Pug they'd be perfect IMO. They don't need to be adjustable as long as they're on from the factory.