Rough machine marks in barrel of Pug and BW?

[OV-1D]

  Patience is a virtue as they say . It will work out just fine but everything in our fine country is topsy turvey right now , you just gotta hang tight . Every industry is in turmoil with few exceptions ,very few .

[Gunznknives]

  Patience is a virtue as they say . It will work out just fine but everything in our fine country is topsy turvey right now , you just gotta hang tight . Every industry is in turmoil with few exceptions ,very few .

With all due respect, I should have been advised honestly on the time frame BEFORE sending in the gun. Then I could have decided for myself whether I had enough patience. I would have declined or at least put it off with the time frame I was given. I didn't create this problem. I was simply sold defective guns and I take responsibility for not noticing at the point of sale. Beyond that, I expect reasonably good customer service. It's as simple as that. Nothing more. If you're answering the phone on the main line, then you are the face of the company and should act accordingly.

I feel that I should have been treated better when inquiring as a paying customer. I won't share names or show email correspondence because those people aren't here to defend themselves and offer their side of the story. Sorry, but right now my frustration is high and my pride of ownership is low. Why? Because I not only have one, but TWO defective guns from the same company bought within a week of each other. I feel as if I'm in no man's land because I don't have much recourse. I can't get a refund from where I bought the guns, and I am at the mercy of the manufacturer who can't, or are not willing to give me straight answers. So, for the time being, I'm not only out the money but also the gun. I'm just the customer. Sure, It's been a rough year, people have bad days, but my patience is thin these days. Again, I really want to like these guns. I bought two of them. And yes, every company has problems but it's how accurately and efficiently they get handled is what impresses me, or turns me off of the company all together. We shall see.

To be fair, it's just not NAA. Customer service in general has declined in almost every industry I've dealt with in consumer goods in the last decade. Anything from guns to groceries and everything in between. These people are being paid to provide a service. No one is forcing them to do it. But instead, it's if they think they can do it without the customer. Like we don't matter and their job would exist without us. It never used to be that way. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

Sorry for the rant, I don't mean to offend anyone else who's had great experiences..

Steve

[Gunznknives]

Gunznknives - I would not get too exercised over what the person answering the phones said. There is a distinct possibility that things will go much faster than she implied. And if not ... then get frustrated!

Well....turns out that you're completely right!  However, I would never have known it based on my initial inquiry. Nevertheless, I may have jumped the "gun" a little bit.

This is where I'll eat some crow..  First, let me say that I never meant to bash NAA as a company. I apologize if it came across that way as it was never my intention. I simply wanted to isolate my perception of the incident of how I was treated on my initial customer service phone call. That's it. And yes, it still bothers me. I'm willing to give that person the benefit of the doubt however. I truly believe it's not a typical interaction one would get in their dealings with this company. We're all human and I may have overreacted out of pure frustration. I sincerely regret not giving the situation more time to play out. For that I am sorry.

Anyway, I'd like to set the record straight. Matt, the Engineering Manager, called me directly on the phone a little bit ago to update me on my warranty claim. Upon his inspection, he agreed that the gun was not a piece that NAA would typically let out in that condition. To make a short story of it, he expects I'll have a new gun shipped out by mid to end of next week.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Matt initially and in hindsight, I should have just dealt with him directly. He had assured me that he would handle this personally and indeed he is doing just that. I just figured customer service would be the appropriate place to follow up. In most cases, that would probably be true.

Matt is a true professional and I take him at his word. I fully trust that he is working diligently to resolve my issue. I can't tell you how much I appreciate his personal attention.

I also want to thank everyone who hung with me here on this thread and/or responded. The reason I joined the forum is because of people like you. I think for now I'll table this discussion.

Thanks again for your patience and understanding.

Regards
Steve

[OV-1D]

  Steve my man I just bet GOD forgives you . 

[Uncle_Lee]

I sure am glad I didn't get in on this one. 

[heyjoe]

Customer service in general has declined in almost every industry I've dealt with in consumer goods in the last decade. Anything from guns to groceries and everything in between. These people are being paid to provide a service. No one is forcing them to do it. But instead, it's if they think they can do it without the customer. Like we don't matter and their job would exist without us. It never used to be that way. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

Sorry for the rant, I don't mean to offend anyone else who's had great experiences..

Steve
[/quote]

I agree with you 100% on this. Customer service has become abysmal. Now many stores expect you to do their job. Self checkout, bag yourself, no one to ask where something is without waiting in line.  Bad attitudes ,etc 

[OV-1D]

  All at the cheapest rates the employer can get away with of course . Then again all the profits settle at the tops , especially for CEO's .

[Uncle_Lee]

Alright let's do it.
I hate stores.
I hate buying things.
I hate the people around me.
I hate the world.
I hate life.

Now we should feel better.

[smokeless joe]

Alright let's do it.
I hate stores.
I hate buying things.
I hate the people around me.
I hate the world.
I hate life.

Now we should feel better.

Hug 

[bearcatter]

I hate stores.
I hate buying things.
I hate the people around me.
I hate the world.
I hate life.

You too? I thought I might be the only one.

[Gunznknives]

UPDATE

So good news and bad news. First the good news. The time frame I was quoted and how long it actually took were two different things. It only took about two weeks turnaround time to get a brand new gun. In addition, NAA was generous enough to include a long rifle cylinder making it a conversion kit. That was unexpected and very much appreciated.

Now the bad news... The barrel of the replacement gun I was sent is not much better than the one I sent in. In some ways, the forcing cone chamber area is much worse. I don't know if this is a problem that can be fixed without changing vendors. Whoever they use to produce the barrels just cannot get a good product out there. As I've noted in an earlier post in this thread, most NAA minis I've examined new at gun shops have these similar barrel characteristics. For whatever reason, I'm not sure it's avoidable if you choose to purchase a current model.

Anyway, it is what it is and I've learned my lesson. I won't be sending in the Pug and I won't request any additional customer service from NAA. In all fairness, I have not shot the new gun, but I'm disappointed in the product quality that I've received. I'm sure this kind of post offends people here on the forum. Not my intention. I'm just trying to be fair and honest about my experience with NAA. Nothing more and nothing less. I think they really want to make this right. I just don't think they can..

Some pictures of the replacement gun.

[Gunznknives]

More problems with the replacement gun..

1. Barrel/cylinder gap seems way out of spec.
2. Pitting on frame by the grip and under it.
3. Keyholing with CCI Maximag 22 WMR
4. The grip is loose and wiggles..cannot be tightened.
5. Rear sight off center all the way to the right...it's the least of my problems but still



A picture is worth a thousand words

[RogueTS1]

Cannot help you with the other issues but can say that the grips almost always need shimming. Once done so they are rock solid. Very common on most SA revolvers.

[bearcatter]

One thing I like about Bearcats. The mainspring seat also supports the center of the grips. Other SA grips are easy to overtighten and warp or crack.

[Gunznknives]

I hate to say it, but I think I could have been blindfolded and randomly stuck my hand in all the parts bins required to build a Black Widow, and come up with a gun with better spec tolerances than this. Any looser tolerances and I would begin to question the safety of the firearm..

Keep in mind, this was the replacement gun and in taking all things in account, it's arguably worse than the one I sent in, which was my biggest fear. It's a shame really.

I really appreciated the expedience in which the matter was handled, however I guess I expected a gun returned to me that was gone over with more of a fine tooth comb. Is that unreasonable? I Don't think so in my opinion.

[bearcatter]

I hate that your situation justifies my choice of not buying any new guns for a while; even one right in front of me. Any maker, or vendor, is likely shorthanded, short on supply of material, and fighting a backlog of orders. This is NOT NAA's usual service. I'm sure at some point it will be made right for you, don't give up.

[Gunznknives]

I hate that your situation justifies my choice of not buying any new guns for a while; even one right in front of me. Any maker, or vendor, is likely shorthanded, short on supply of material, and fighting a backlog of orders. This is NOT NAA's usual service. I'm sure at some point it will be made right for you, don't give up.

Please don't let my experience influence any prospective purchase opportunities that YOU may encounter. If you find something good, go for it. I would be more inclined to look for models in good condition that were manufactured at least three or four years ago. If nothing else, My experience is worth documenting if it helps save even one customer a bunch of grief and aggravation. Don't stop buying the guns you like. Just be careful.

As for me, I'm over it. Sure, I'm disappointed and frustrated. Who wouldn't be? After all, I'm holding two defective brand new NAA mini revolvers and my only crime is not being careful enough checking them before purchasing, albeit some of these issues are hard for me to spot without magnification. My eyes are getting old.

All companies have problems periodically, or at least on occasion. NAA included. I'm not going to bash the company, however I have a "fool me once" philosophy, so as I mentioned before, I will not be sending any guns back to NAA anytime soon. I figure I'll just shoot the heck out of them until they break and/or need service and then go from there. If it's something I could fix myself, I'll go that route first.

Steve