Ammo question

jkharvey00 · February-22-13 09:02

I have the NAA 22LR mini. Can I shoot shorts out of my 22LR revolver?

bud · February-22-13 10:02

Only if you can find them to buy.

Dinadan · February-22-13 11:02

jkharvey00 - Shorts and Longs are fine in a Long Rifle revolver. Also the Aguila Colibri and Super Colibri. I often shoot shorts in my LR and Magnum Minis (with the LR cylinder in the Magnums, of course) because they are not as loud as LR.

dbgUSMC · February-22-13 11:02

That's a good question and I was wondering if I could shot LR from my sidewinder when I get it with the magnum cylinder? I bought the sidewinder that only comes with the magnum cylinder. Or do I need to purchase the LR cylinder in order to do so?

cedarview kid · February-22-13 11:02

NO. Shooting .22LR rounds from a .22Magnum cylinder is not recommended. The casings are of a different diameter. While you may be able to get them to fire, it may not be safe to do so. The casings may split and that's probably not safe for the shooter. That's why cylinders are available for both calibers. Although the bullets that each fires is compatible, such that the same barrel can be used, the casings are different and require cylinders that match each type of round.

Don't do it. Get a conversion cylinder, if you can.

Bluelitenin · February-22-13 11:02

I beleive the reason for the different cylinders is that with LR rounds in a magnum frame the extra lenght of the cylinder is actually an extension of the barrel. Theoredically if you shoot LR in a magnum cylinder there is a larger gap between the cylinders bore and the diameter of the projectile and therefore the bullet may not be perfectly lined up with the barrel and actually hit the end of the barrel when coming out of the end of the cylinder. This is why they also want you to send inthe gun to be fitted with the cylinder, instead of just selling it to you for you to install. they want to make sure it is perfectly lined up.

cedarview kid · February-22-13 11:02

Well, that would mean you couldn't shoot .22 Long or .22 Short in a .22 LR cylinder, and that's considered fine.

Try inserting a .22 Mangum round into a .22LR chamber. It doesn't fit. But you CAN insert a .22 LR round into a .22 Magnum chamber. A .22 Magnum shell casing has a larger diameter than a .22 LR round, so they are not compatible.

dbgUSMC · February-22-13 16:02

Roger that I won't try firing a .22 LR from the magnum cylinder then.

Another question I have now that we are talking about both cylinders. I bought the sidewinder that just has the magnum cylinder. My question is what do I need to do to get the LR one also? Can I just order a cylinder only for the sidewinder, or do I have to ship the gun back to the dealer and have them custom fit one for me?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Mandodoc · February-22-13 17:02

From what I understand, any additional cylinder purchases must be done by sending the firearm to the factory, the timing must be set between the cylinder and the rest of the frame.

bbgun · February-22-13 17:02

I did the same thing. You have to send the gun and cylinder back to get the other cylinder.

cedarview kid · February-22-13 19:02

Yup. And that's assuming the NAA factory has extra .22LR cylinder to sell that isn't married to an existing Sidewinder. So I'm afraid that's a question that only NAA is going to be able to answer.

dbgUSMC · February-22-13 19:02

Ok, cool I guess I will just have to get in touch with NAA and find out if they even have them available then. Thanks guys!

grayelky · February-24-13 22:02

jkharvey00-
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

dbgUSMC and Bluelitenin-

If it were simply a matter of case length, there would not be an issue. The problem with the .22LR/.22 Mag is not a matter of the LR being shorter.

The LR was developed with a heeled bullet. This means the portion of the bullet inside the case is smaller in diameter than the portion outside of the case. The case and the external portion of the bullet are the same diameter. Look closely down the chamber of a .22 lr, and you not see a change in diameter from one end to the other, as everything is the same size (diameter). Now examine a .22 mag chamber. If you look close, you will see a small decrease in diameter nearer to the barrel. This is as far as the case reaches. The diameter is reduced, to help support the bullet and keep it aligned as it makes its way to the barrel. (This is easier to see in a .44 Mag or .45 Colt chamber.) It is this slight difference in diameter that creates the need for 2 different cylinders. As naa_collector pointed out:

QuoteTry inserting a .22 Magnum round into a .22LR chamber. It doesn't fit. But you CAN insert a .22 LR round into a .22 Magnum chamber. A .22 Magnum shell casing has a larger diameter than a .22 LR round, so they are not compatible.

If you fire a .22 LR round in a .22 Mag chamber, the difference is enough so the LR case is not supported by the magnum chamber. One of the reasons brass is used is its ability to expand, or "stretch". This expansion allows the brass to seal the chamber and prevent any of the gases from blowing back towards the shooter. The .22 Lr case is too small to create this seal and will typically rupture. This breaks the seal and will allow gases from the burning powder to blow back into your face, potentially creating a serious problem. No, it is not enough to damage your gun, but it can be enough to damage your eyes or your face.

IF you were to find yourself in a truly life and death situation with no .22 magnum ammo, a .22 magnum weapon and only .22 LR ammo, then, AND ONLY then, would it perhaps be worth the risk to fire LR ammo in a magnum chamber.

bbgun · February-24-13 23:02

grayelky, I wish you had told us that last year. I got my 2BTs, went to the range and by mistake, shot about 20 LRs out of each one before I discovered it. Scary. But nothing happened, by the grace of God. Thanks for all your knowledge. Give us a weekly lesson or tidbit once in a while on you knowledge of guns and ammo. Thanks. Maybe you will save us some grief!

cedarview kid · February-25-13 11:02

Quote from: bbgun on February-24-13 23:02
grayelky, I wish you had told us that last year. I got my 2BTs, went to the range and by mistake, shot about 20 LRs out of each one before I discovered it. Scary. But nothing happened, by the grace of God. Thanks for all your knowledge. Give us a weekly lesson or tidbit once in a while on you knowledge of guns and ammo. Thanks. Maybe you will save us some grief!

Grayelky gives good advice. I also know what you're saying can work, but this knowledge certainly did not come intentionally. A long while back, I accidentally shot some .22LR from a .22 Magnum H&R revolver. I was even impressed with the accuracy, before I noticed my stupid mistake. You should NEVER EVER shoot a round for which your gun is not designed, but some mistakes are more dangerous than others.

(BTW, when I say NEVER EVER, there are cases when it seems you're violating this rule, like shooting .22 Short in a .22LR chamber, or a .38-Special in a .357-Magnum chamber. But these examples ARE OK, because those rounds are compatible BY DESIGN. You just need to know which rounds are compatible, as NOT MANY of them are. Be VERY careful if the caliber markings on your shell casing don't match the markings on your gun. This can also be confusing when different markings mean the same thing, like 9mm Kurz is the same thing as .380ACP and 9mm short, or that 9mm Parabellum and 9x19 are the same designation for "standard" 9mm here in the U.S., or that .32ACP is the same thing as 7.65 Browning. Please correct me if I'm wrong with any of these, because these alternate names DO get confusing.)

Bluelitenin · February-25-13 19:02

Thanks Gray, knowledge is King..... I am always interested in learning.... even when it means
I was wrong.

grayelky · February-25-13 20:02

To all- Thank you for your kind words. As you may have noticed, there is a reason I have not been called , "A man of few words".

naa_collector makes some good points. 9mm is an excellent example. Be very careful walking into any ammo-selling establishment and asking for 9mm. You may know you want the 9mm our military uses, but you could end up with 9X17 (.380, 9mm Kurtz), 9X18 (9mm Makarov), 9X19 - what you really wanted (9 para, 9 Parabellum, 9mm Luger [edited/added], 9 mm NATO) 9X21 (don't remember other names), 9X23 or a rifle round or 2. If you ask for .45, and the WalMart got in some .45 GAP, you are stuck with it. They have a strict "no return" policy. Same thing goes if you walk out with .45 Colt instead of .45 ACP.

blue-
It is not so much a matter of you being "wrong" as it is you have not had the chance to learn let. I am less than a month away from being 62, yet I can vividly remember when I was young and had not yet learned. One day, you will be the one explaining to a younger board member, so he/she will also understand.

Uncle_Lee · February-26-13 05:02

"One day, you will be the one explaining to a younger board member, so he/she will also understand."

Younger only in experience.
In years that person may be older than you but never had the chance to learn.

glenn · February-26-13 06:02

I just ask the ADMIN to put this whole thread in a FAQ
I think it's one of the best threads I've seen .. as to these mini's & which ammo to be sure to use !!!
Thanks everyone that contributed !!!

glenn · February-26-13 06:02

Also ...
It almost brings a tear to my eye .. that I didn't hear one single ... "Why you stupid idiotic moron ... anyone knows you can't shoot LR in a MAG chamber."
Thanks Gentlemen ... makes me proud to be a member here !

Uncle_Lee · February-26-13 06:02

No one knows everything.

Me?
I don't know what I don't know.
I won't know it until I do it wrong and someone corrects me.....
Please do it nicely.

dbgUSMC · February-26-13 07:02

I can gladly admit when I don't know something. Thanks for the help guys!

lohman446 · February-26-13 08:02

We can really complicate this discussion by considering the oddity of the Medusa revolver. It is designed to fire 25 different cartridges (357 Mag, 9MM, 380, 9X18, .38. etc.) One source says it will fire 104 different ones

http://1withabullet.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/range-report-shooting-the-medusa-revolver/

heyjoe · February-26-13 21:02

i knew someone who had a medusa. im sure he still does. now that would be a forensic nightmare.

TwoGunJayne · February-27-13 09:02

A .22 mag casing has been modified as a chamber adaptor to fire .22 lr in a .22 mag gun.

To me, it sounds like a bad idea born of desperation... or someone who didn't want to spend the money on either proper .22 mag ammo or a conversion cylinder.

Chamber adaptors are nothing really new. The US military experimented with them for a while when they were transitioning from .30-06 to 7.62/.308. They found it was a bad idea on semiautos.

Not that I would do it, but you have to buff out the inside of the .22 mag casing or swedge it into the chamber so the .22 lr slips freely and the chamber adaptor stays in place. It'd have to be a real end-of-world scenario before I'd even consider this hack.

Summary: Get a .22 mag conversion cylinder for every mini you have that supports it. Chamber adaptors are unreliable.