Brand New NAA-MS22 does not work

lohman446 · July-12-12 10:07

Red there is no question there is a balance act. A notch in trigger travel is rather different than a revolver that fails to function. Obviously the later is representative of faulty QC measures. It might be in the standards or it might have been one of those that slipped by.

frazierdave · July-12-12 11:07

I have friends who buy guns and don't fire them for YEARS. The warranties would surely be up by the time they would notice any problems.

Not me, I buy to use, no collectables or "safe queens", just hard working well used firearms!

I have noticed firearm manufacturing standards dropping for example I just bought a Ruger 10/22 Takedown. Compared to my old Ruger 10/22 the finish is HORRIBLE, bolt, chamber, recoil spring guide rod, all rough and unfinished looking, but it does function...

lohman446 · July-12-12 11:07

I wonder if part of the problem has to do with how we buy firearms. Most people would never purchase a vehicle without test driving it yet VERY FEW gun dealers allow potential customers to fire a new gun they are considering.

I am lucky enough to have a dealer who will let me fire any gun I am thinking about buying. Granted I have yet to not buy one after firing but still

redhawk4 · July-12-12 11:07

Since the huge increase in demand that came about when Obama started to run for office there is no doubt that as production was increased, quality fell at many manufacturers. Ruger is one in particular that I've noticed a number of inferior quality items from when perusing the local gun stores, so I can certainly believe the quality of the 10/22 Takedowns being inferior to that found on models from the more distant past.



   It's amazing how many people hat are not really collectors who still buy guns bring them home and never fire them. If I buy a gun, I can't wait to fire it, I have to discipline my self to go via my house to clean and lube it properly before trying it out. That's why I was out in a foot of snow in the mountains shooting my recently purchased NIB SKS last winter. I buy my guns with a purpose in my, should that need arise, I don't see that as a good time to be finding out if they work. Most new things seem to break almost immediately, if there is a fault, once past this point it seems you have to just wear them out which with guns seems to take longer than I can afford the time or ammo for.



   Anything can always break at any time in theory, but I'll put my trust in a used and well maintained piece of equipment any time over a new and untested piece.



   I don't know about not being able to "test drive" a gun when you buy it, but I do find it strange that usually you don't even get to see the actual gun you are getting until you've pretty much bought it, you look at a display model and then they go out back and appear with the one you are getting in a box, when the transaction is pretty near complete.

frazierdave · July-12-12 15:07

I am a firm believer in try before you buy when it comes to firearms. I go to a firing range with a very large variety of rental guns, Oak Tree Gun Club in So Cal, and I try out guns I like before considering them for purchase. For example:I wanted a Sig Equinox, but after shooting one, I decided it was not for me...

   Unfortunately, they do not rent NAA minis there, but I have read so many good reviews I figured it was ok.

   Again, I do not understand how someone can buy a gun and not ever shoot it. I know a guy who bought a defensive shotgun, had it 10 YEARS, but never fired it!! Now he just bought a Glock 19 and is currently hiding it from his wife.

   I asked him, how is he supposed to defend his family if he has never even shot the guns?

   His answer: "I've shot guns before".

   Ok Fine...good luck with that...

redhawk4 · July-12-12 17:07

"I've shot guns before"

That's like thinking you can go for a World Boxing title because you had a fight in Kindergarten

lohman446 · July-13-12 04:07

My point is not to fire a similiar gun to the one you are thinking about but to actually fire the one you are looking at before you buy it. Just because I have driven a Silverado before does not mean I would be expected to buy a new one without driving it first.

grayelky · July-13-12 07:07

You would be amazed at how many people have that attitude. I see it at least a couple of times a month.

frazierdave · July-13-12 10:07

Lohman, You are lucky! If your local shop lets you do that you are an exception to the rule!!

I believe that trying out a gun at the range is sufficient as a general test of the firearms fit and function and has been a perfect way for me to determine a firearms suitability, but NAA Mini Quality Control varies drasticaly which I notice has been pointed out numerous times on this message board.

I would never have been allowed to take this gun home before I bought it, bring it to the range, fire 150 rounds through it, then return it to the shop, and I work there part time and am friends with the owner!!

ArmedPatriot · July-13-12 10:07

To the OP.



   Try wire brushing the front of the cylinder after 10 15 shots or so.



   My wifes Taurus 22 gets bound up after 18 rounds or so because of the buildup on the front of the cylinder. The gap is WAY too narrow between the cylinder and the forcing cone and so any buildup makes it pretty tight.

   I was going to get it fixed but some guys seem to like it that way and offered to buy the gun from us so we just deal with it. I take a wire brush with me when we shoot it at the range and it fixes the problem every time.

   Just brush the front of the cylinder after every 10-15 rounds and see if that helps.

lohman446 · July-13-12 10:07

Part of it is that they have a range under the store (walk down the stairs, turn right) so it never actually leaves the building. If it were to leave the building paperwork would have to be done. I still see it as extremely lucky though.

ArmedPatriot · July-13-12 10:07

"I wonder if part of the problem has to do with how we buy firearms. Most people would never purchase a vehicle without test driving it yet VERY FEW gun dealers allow potential customers to fire a new gun they are considering"

   =================================================



   DEfinitely agree here.

   There are list of guns I wouldnt have bought if Id been allowed to shoot them first.

   A S&W 22 pistol comes to mind. That piece of junk was a better hammer than a gun.

dracothered · July-13-12 13:07

There are very few things we can test out before we buy them. As far as a gun goes you may be able to test the same model at a range, but not the one you intend to buy at the gun dealers shop unless they have a range there. But even if they have a range I doubt they will let you test the one you want.

Here is why I say that, they look at it from the point of view if you shoot it and then say no it is now more or less a used fire arm. How would you feel if you bought a pistol that you wanted for a collection that you don't intend to shoot and you find out it has been shot many times after it left the factory?

redhawk4 · July-13-12 14:07

If dealers offered this as a matter of course they would open up a can of worms for themselves. They'd have all sorts of people wanting to "try" with no intention of buying and pretty soon most of their stock would be "used" and they'd have to employ several full time gun cleaners.

I think what is unique about a gun compared to most products is that once you've bought it you're pretty much stuck with it. If when you finally get your hands on it doesn't work properly or is cosmetically damaged, you can't easily take it back and get another, or a refund like you can with pretty much anything else. Could this fact alone allow gun manufacturers to be a little more careless in their QC than a manufacturer supplying someone like Walmart with lawnmowers, where if there's a bad product, they could all get returned, the customers reimbursed and the manufacturer ends up with a lot of used merchandise spread around the country and no money?

louiethelump · July-13-12 15:07

packer:

what s&w 22 did you have trouble with?

bud · July-13-12 15:07

Redhawk4,

Very good point! That is what I was thinking.

frazierdave · July-13-12 19:07

At least I am not as unhappy with my gun as this guy is with his gun! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhg9MNXelwg&feature=plcp">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhg9MNXelwg&feature=plcp

gunr · July-13-12 20:07

Frazier,

   This problem has come up in the past a few times. I was one of the "victims" However after some fooling around, I found what seemed to be the problem. There was not enough relief on the back, lower part of the cylinder opening. This usually occurs after about 3 rounds have been fired, and the first one is now entering this area.



   Please note: This may NOT be the problem with your particular gun.



   The problem was taken care of, and I can vouch for the excellent customer service given by NAA.



   If I were you I would order the L.R. cylinder NOW so you can get it without sending the gun back later for fitting.

   Gunr

ArmedPatriot · July-13-12 20:07

"packer:



   what s&w 22 did you have trouble with?"

   ===============================================

   It was some target model back in the 90's.

   Every piece of metal on it that could be punched out of sheet metal was.

   Seems like it had an aluminum frame.

   Its been far too long to remember a model number.

   I thought seeing the S&W logo on it meant quality. Not exactly true.

bleak_window · July-14-12 07:07

I have done much better buying used guns.

It's easy to see how quality standards have slipped when a 60 year old gun shot thousands of times is tighter than a new one right off the dealer's shelf

frazierdave · July-16-12 12:07

UPDATE monday 7/16:

I called Customer serice, spoke with a very pleasant woman who informed me that they received the gun and it was with the technicians now. They are planning to replace the old cylinder, "maybe work on a couple of other things", and will include a Complimentary Conversion Cylinder!! It should be finished by the end of the week she said, I am becoming a fan...

pioneer · July-16-12 13:07

This also serves as a reminder that just because someone works in a gun store and knows how to run a cash register or card scanner, doesn't mean they know diddly about guns.



   It's not just NAA, I've had stinkers from S&W, Colt, and others, and neither is it just guns. Anybody ever buy a new car that was a P.O.S.? TV, or refrigerator?



   I've worked in manufacturing and know that no matter how diligent the QC folks are, a faulty unit will sometimes make it through. Calm down, it's nothing personal, but at least give them a chance to make it right before you bash & trash them.

backporch22 · July-16-12 15:07

FRAZIER NOT SO MAD NOW I BET.

soldierboy · July-17-12 20:07

Interesting about NIB guns not working great right off the bat -- doesn't seem to have much to do with the cost either.



   A while back, I bought a Kimber Ultra (the short-barrel model) for over $900. Even after pouring a few hundred rounds thru it to break it in, it's still kinda cranky about malfunctions (no, no limp-wristing!).



   But a bit earlier I got a new XD-45, which I consider one of the ugliest guns on the planet, for a bit less than half of the Kimber. But - no obvious break-in required, it eats anything, is much more accurate than I am any more, and I have to set up malfunctions to practice clearing them, because it has never done one on its own! Super gun, even if it isn't a showpiece!



   I've heard much good about NAA, and Frazier's most recent experience helps validate my expectations. I ordered out the EarlyBird Sidewinder, and am really looking forward to getting it. If it does turn out to have a bug or two, I trust they will make it right.



   BTW, I picked up a slightly used 22M recently (obviously a former safe-queen but works fine), has serial# E076xxx, can anybody tell me when the gun was made or what model name it has?



   The (old) Soldierboy

ArmedPatriot · July-19-12 06:07

"It's not just NAA, I've had stinkers from S&W, Colt, and others, and neither is it just guns. Anybody ever buy a new car that was a P.O.S.? TV, or refrigerator? "

   =====================================================

   The wife and I switched over to flat panel monitors some time ago. I had one for 5 years so I was really confident in the technology so I decided to get a new TV.

   Got it 10 months ago and its already having trouble firing up.

   Ive got every sort of guarantee on it that money could by, including use a credit card that added more protection when I bought it...and its getting pretty clear Im going to have to use it sooner or later.



   With my TV its not a big deal. My life isnt on the line.

   If I have to pull my gun, its a whole different ball game.

   The TV can go down and it just means I dont get to watch reruns of Seinfeld for a few days.

   My gun not working right might mean I get taken down and my wife gets raped and murdered.



   These gun companies need to get their •••• together and put out products that work EVERY time or get out of the business entirely.

lashlarue · July-21-12 09:07

There is no such company.Ruger has barrels shearing off.The S&W Sigma is the poorest excuse for a firearm I have ever seen.40 cal. glock kabooms are a common occurance.both my NAA's have never failed in minimal usage.10 rounds each...

lohman446 · July-21-12 09:07

Ehhh.



   The internet makes uncommon occurances seem common. Some of the people I know shoot A LOT and some of them at pretty crowded public ranges.



   Noone I have talked to has personally witnessed or talked with anyone in person who has personally witnessed a Glock kaboom. A lot of people have heard of them on the internet but if they were as common as it is made to sound you would think someone would have personally seen one.



   The Sigma did what it was supposed to do. Personally I think it one of the better value firearms out there. The trigger is not great but it goes bang every time and makes a good gun for people who are not always shooting them (which I think is the majority of firearms owners)

Uncle_Lee · July-23-12 10:07

"Interesting about NIB guns not working great right off the bat -- doesn't seem to have much to do with the cost either.



   A while back, I bought a Kimber Ultra (the short-barrel model) for over $900. Even after pouring a few hundred rounds thru it to break it in, it's still kinda cranky about malfunctions (no, no limp-wristing!).



   But a bit earlier I got a new XD-45, which I consider one of the ugliest guns on the planet, for a bit less than half of the Kimber. But - no obvious break-in required, it eats anything, is much more accurate than I am any more, and I have to set up malfunctions to practice clearing them, because it has never done one on its own! Super gun, even if it isn't a showpiece!



   I've heard much good about NAA, and Frazier's most recent experience helps validate my expectations. I ordered out the EarlyBird Sidewinder, and am really looking forward to getting it. If it does turn out to have a bug or two, I trust they will make it right.



   BTW, I picked up a slightly used 22M recently (obviously a former safe-queen but works fine), has serial# E076xxx, can anybody tell me when the gun was made or what model name it has? "



   The model of your mini is NAA-22M.



   On your expensive hand guns having problems, some just have a longer break-in period. Some times years and years.

   Now if it didn't cost much, one would call it a Piece of ****.

   But as we all know, you get what you pay for.

   I read that every once in a while and chuckle at the ignorance of the person writing it.



   It is not how much one pays for a gun or what it looks like that counts.

   It IS if it goes bang EVERY time we want it to.

frazierdave · July-23-12 12:07

Re Update 7/23/12:

   surprise, surprise, surprise...FeEx came a-knockin!!! MY GUN IS BACK!!!

   Installed:

   LR Barrel 1 1/8

   Cylinder, Magnum

   Magnum Hand Aft

   Main Spring



   We'll see, it's off to the range...

harkamsu · July-23-12 15:07

I don't believe in break in periods. A gun should work out of the box with only having to be cleaned of all the cosmoline.



   I had a 9mm gun of the CZ75 variety that would have a failure of some kind at least once or twice out of every 100 rounds. I tried all different kinds of ammo, even some 9mm NATO, and eventually my meticulous reloads. I put just shy under 10,000 rounds through it over the course of a year. (I actually shoot my firearms). It still failed routinely, once or twice every 100 rounds after that high round count. I got rid of it.



   Break in is a myth IMO.



   I was so fed up with that gun, that I sold it and bought an HK45. No failures yet. I'm nearly through 4000 rounds and have only had it roughly 6 months. The last 1500-2000ish rounds were my reloads. I keep a meticulous log of every trip to the range which includes round count fired, total round count, and failures if any.



   IF break in were real, I don't want to have to rely on having to shoot a hand gun long enough until the break in period is over, because you can't really tell when it's over. 1-2% failure rate is not what I would call reliable by any means.

louiethelump · July-23-12 16:07

you can not believe that you need to change the oil in your car as well, but that does not mean you don't. It just means you don't believe it.

Buy and shoot revolvers.

harkamsu · July-23-12 16:07

Cars to guns is like comparing apples to zucchini.



   No informed consumer would argue that you need to change your oil on a regular basis, just like you need to change tires and brakes.



   If you think your guns need break in, more power to you. I don't.



   As far as revolvers are concerned, I have been eying a Redhawk Alaskan in .454 casull as of late, as well as a SW PC 8 shot .357, either the 327 or 627.

chopprs · July-23-12 17:07

Harkamsu, I am sorry to inform you but you are incorrect in your assumption. ALL mechanical devices have a break in period as the parts wear together and become "happy" with eachother. As the quality and price go up this period may become shorter depending on the machine but I can assure you that you will be hard pressed to find a firearm manufacturer that will guarantee a firearm flawless and completely free from FTFs right out of the box. I have seen as little as 50 rounds for a recommended break in but never zero. Believe what you want but the laws of physics will endlessly argue with your "opinion".....continually proving you wrong, over and over.



   I myself have owned at least a hundred firearms in my life that I purchased brand new. Just about every one of them had a minor issue or three as indicated by the manufacturer during the recommended break in period then moving on to function flawlessly after the recommended amount of break in useage.

   To put it plainly, just because you had one cheeze-wiz gun does not mean that they all are!

gunfixer · July-23-12 19:07

It seems likely that this was an ammo problem and perhaps it got a tad dirty after 150-ish rounds..?



   Anyway, C.S. at NAA is and has always been top notch, they WILL take care of your woes if the cleaning and new ammo batch does not..



   So now.. About the New Sub-MOA rifle my buddy and I bought together many moons ago..



   Immediately after going and picking up my buddies new F-250 4x4, we went & close/ rough zeroed the Custom M-70 on paper then went to dazzle ourselves in a dry and freshly cut field..



   Fired 6 rounds @ dirt clods some 200-ish yards away and could NOT tell WHERE in the HECK we were hittin.; NO dust clouds ANYWHERE even in the general AREA of where we were shooting.. None at ALL..!!! Then.. we noticed the scope was barely looking over the far side of his new truck bed...



   Could've sworn THAT was a bad gun too... Ugh.. ;) Lol.!

frazierdave · July-23-12 19:07

RANGE REPORT:

   Ok, I took NAA Mini Revolver to the range, fired that thing until it was "Hot as a Pistol", about 100 rounds of .22LR, then I switched to the magnum cylinder, another 75-100 rounds, rapid fire (as much as possible with this gun..) until the cylinder was too hot to touch. I know this is above and beyond normal use, but I now wanted to see how it performed, guns are made to shoot. Well, I am happy to report that there was not one single hiccup, the gun now operates flawlessly as I expected it to when I first bought it.

   All in all, NAA CS was perfect, took awhile but what the heck...I now feel that I have a reliable firearm.

   BREAK IN: I did notice that there was definitely a break in period with the new parts, it took about 50 rounds for the trigger pull, cylinder pin removal/install, and just the general action and feel of the gun to smooth out.

   FIREPOWER: I was at a pistol range with metal targets and a falling plate rack (speed plates) and I have to say, I was very impressed with the way the NAA .22 Magnum was able to knock the plates down! It's tough to make them fall with a 22/45 sometimes let alone the mini revolver!! The other metal targets including cowboy action targets are placed from 5-25 yards, no problem hitting any of them.



   FINAL OPINION:

   Nice little pistol, especially with the holster grips. More accurate than people think, and the way it worked on the speed plates, good last resort CCW gun. I was able to rapid fire the litle thing with a 2 handed grip.

   NAA made good on the guarantee, but I just wish it was this good out of the box. I pity the fool who buys one and doesn't make sure it functions properly...



   SIDE NOTE: My current CCW Favorites are my Glock 26 and Springfield XD9 Service Model. I must have put at least 10,000 rounds through them since I have owned them. NOT ONE PROBLEM. ZERO BREAK IN NEEDED. Just saying....