?????????????

[chup]

When is NAA going to build a Mini Revolver in the 32 Auto or 32 NAA caliber? Is it that costly or hard to do. I'm not trying to be a smart ••• I am just asking.

[louiethelump]

Welcome to the forum!

   

   A few of us have been asking for this for YEARS, to no avail.

   

   I and others have suggested the 32acp as it is small enough to still fit 5 in the cylinder without it getting too big.  The 32 NAA is 380 diameter, and to make a 5 shot cylinder it will be J frame size and won't be a mini.

   

   We have gotten no answer from NAA as to why no 32acp and no explanation whatsoever if they are even looking at the idea.

   

   They attempted a 32 H&R but it became cumbersome and they put it aside.

   

   

   That is the best I can tell you.

   

   Louie

[grayelky]

First, WELCOME!

   

   In addition to what Louie said, the 32 NAA is a bottle necked case. These have never worked consistently well in any revolver by any maker, to my knowledge. There are some individual guns that work okay, but none will work consistently across the model line. NAA made some .17 HMR guns for a short while, and like others, ended the idea not too long after it started for the above reasons. I personally think the chances of seeing another bottle necked case from them is none existent.

[gunfixer]

Maybe .30 carbine for the "Magnum" frame.!! Lol

   (Apparently some of you think I'm serious..?!?)

   

   I think the .32acp would be cool too..  

   (Yes.. THIS time I'm serious..)

[blitzkrieger]

Or a 3 shot .357 though I could not imagine the torture to ones hand/wrist firing .38 or .357 out of something so small.

   nor the beef up in frame girth to accomodate such a round and that goes for 30 carbine as well.

[Uncle_Lee]

32 acp mini, Please!

   I'll take a pair.

   Thank You Very Much,

   

   

   

[louiethelump]

Or a two shot 454!!!

   

   Yea,,, and a single shot for the 50 cal browning machine gun in a pocket pistol!  yea, that is the ticket....

   

   

   Or a 45acp guardian in the same size as the 32 frame.....  yea, yea, that is it!

   

   Every time this discussion starts folks move immediately into fantasy land...........

   

   No wonder NAA does not take us seriously

[gunr]

Louie,

   The .50 would work well!

   You don't even need the gun to shoot it (too cumbersome) Just "throw" the .50 at your assailant! It's heavy enough to do some real damage if you have a good throwing arm!

[heyjoe]

the 3 shot .357 mini would be perfect to get three quick pinpoint accurate shots against a moving perp in body armor in a panicked,crowded tear gassed movie theater while hes shooting at you with a shotgun.

[gunr]

If he's shooting at you with a shotgun, what part of you would be left to shoot back?

[Uncle_Lee]

I AM SERIOUS!!!!!

   32 acp mini

[wild bill]

Yes, i am serious also.  Want 2 of them.

[louiethelump]

I will take AT LEAST two............

[blitzkrieger]

I was joking about the 3 shot .357

[bleak_window]

I think you .32ACP mini guys would be disappointed at the expense of the thing, if could even be built, and the likely real-world performance that might equal the Magnum Black Widow on a good day.

[Uncle_Lee]

I want two 32 acp minis.

   Not because of ballistics.

   Not because of size.

   Not restricted by cost.

   I want a pair of 32 acp minis because that's what I want.

   

   I feel that that is justification enough.

   

[louiethelump]

Bleak:

   

   Please advise why you feel it may not be able to be built.

   

   A centerfire frame already exists in the black powder version, of course it would have to be a new frame with a slightly larger cylinder window, but it could also be a shorter frame as the 32acp is a bit shorter than the 22 magnum.  So, with a barrel of similar profile to the Black Widow, the gun would be slightly shorter, and would produce 850 FPS or more with standard 71 grain (nearly double the 40 grain bullet weight of the 22 magnum) loads and over 1000 fps with the high performance 60 grain loads (150% the weight of the 22 magnum bullet) and all bullets would START OUT at the diameter that we try to get the 22 magnum to expand TO.

   

   Not sure where you see HUGE increase in cost.  Maybe you could share some of your insight with the rest of us instead of just being so negative about the idea.

   

   Enlighten me PLEASE

[Uncle_Lee]

Ah, Bleak doesn't want one/can't afford one, so he/she just wants to pee on other people's parade.

[theysayimnotme]

I've wanted one & was badly disappointed when they went to the .32 mag & then the Rube Goldberg design they tried.

   KISS simply upsize the mini design. With the centerfire cartridge the firing pin should not block a groove in the topstrap & the .32 ACP has a slight rim that should suffice for head spacing.

   In the end however it really doesn't matter for me since I live in the PDRK & couldn't buy one anyway.

[RogueTS1]

Theysay; you could always move to the free world..........

[heyjoe]

if these masss shootings keep up, eventually none of the country will be free. the tide of public opinion is very fickle and very easily swayed

[keith44]

headspace on acp cartridges is always the case mouth, just as bottlenecked cartridges always headspace off the shoulder

   

   .32acp in a revolver... I like the idea and if priced right I would buy one.  As for the expense well I've seen million dollar prototype weapons in private collections that will never be produced due to design failures.  Most are trying to cram too much cartridge into too small of a pistol.  AMT backup sized 10mm not gonna see one.  A Luger chambered in .45 acp, one still exists, but the pistol design would not take that kind of beating.  

   

   Take a look at the metal that the barrel fits into on a mini, you would have to likely double the frame thickness.  So now it would have to compete with the .32 Guardian.  Does not sound like a good business plan to me.

[Uncle_Lee]

I know where they could sell two of them.

[louiethelump]

Keith44:

   

   If you are going to state facts here, please be sure that they are facts.

   

   The 25acp, 32acp, 38acp, and 38 Super (really just a +P 38acp as the case is the same) ALL headspace on the rim, and all three are semi-rimmed cartridges.  When the 38 Super became popular for use in combat shooting within the last 10-15 years, custom barrels have been made to headspace on the case mouth, but that does not make it always by any means, and prior to that anomaly, ALL of the guns that use those rounds have, and continue to be made today, to headspace on the rim.  This headspacing on the rim, in the case of the 38 Super, has been claimed as the case for the rather hum drum accuracy of the 1911 in 38 Super.  I had a SIG 220 in 38 Super years ago, and it headspaced on the rim and did not shoot all that well either, and this may well be the reason.

   

   If you will read some of the history of the various acp rounds, you will find the information and I am not asking or expecting you to take my word for it.

   

   I shoot quite a bit of 32 acp in my Ruger SP101s chambered for 327 Federal (I have 3 of them) and in my Gp100 in the same chambering, and my Single Six single actions in 32 H&R.  It headspaces on the rim and works just fine.  In my Charter Arms 32 S&W Long, I will get some misfires with 32acp in double action but not with single action.

[dwstiles]

for a semi-rimless case to headspace on the rim you pretty much have to set the gun up for pretty much one batch of cases since the MFG variations on the mini-rim size and thickness can vary too much for a small ultra light critical function pistol.    I addition I suspect that on those little frames with minimal grip (unless you bulk them up with oversize grips) would be almost unmanageable with anything much more than a SW 32 short. managability is a function of grip size and configuration as well as mass relative to recoil dynamics.   I suspect that trying to shoot a 25 NAA and certainly a 32 NAA in one would be a "shoot one round, pick it up off the ground, aim, cock, fire, Pick it up off the ground, aim. cock, fire  .  .  .  .  . deal.  even in the Guardian the 32 NAA is a bit snappy,   not at all difficult to mange once you get used to it,  but it ain't your grandaddy's vest pocket 25 or32 for sure.

[bill_deshivs]

They made tiny .32 acp revolvers 100 years ago. I'm sure it could be done today.

[louiethelump]

Dwstiles:

   

   We were talking about 32 acp.  I was anyway.  Anything bigger and it won't be a mini anymore. Both of the rounds you are talking about are bottle neck rounds and have proven to be a problem in revolvers.  I don't see any more precision needed for a semi rimmed than in a fully rimmed in a single action.  As I have said and will repeat, I have shot a LOT of 32 acp in various 32 revolvers, and while they have excessive headspace due to the thin rim, they shoot and extract just fine.

   

   You are right Bill, and a few 25 acp revolvers too.

   

   I see no reason for any technical problem to it, and suspect it is a concern for a lack of buyers.  And they may be right about that.  Even on this board, there are a handful of us that would like and buy the guns, but the vast majority seem to be nay sayers and come up with one reason after another why they don't think it will work.  Even when it is pointed out that it works fine in every solid frame gun it has been tried in, even though not technically chambered for the 32acp.  I would not shoot 32acp in a break top made for 32 S&W for safety reasons. It is a little higher pressure than the 32 S&W and many break tops are questionable with even those.

[keith44]

umm acp rounds are, according to SAAMI specs, supposed to head space on the case mouth.  Some do also rest a semi-rimless round at the chamber mouth, but it is never correct to do so.  That is why the variance in manufacturing with the extractor groove, and rim thickness.  Where as with straight walled rimmed cases the rim thickness and extractor groove are very consistent between manufacturers.  Yes it can be done, and has been done, but todays standards recommend the case mouth.

[keith44]

I have fired a friends .32acp Derringer (Davis) and while snappy the grips were not an issue.  Now the .32 H&R Magnum Derringer another friend brought was an entirely different story.  The weight of the Derringers were a plus with holding on to the beasts, but the .32 acp had about twice the recoil impules of my Magnum mini.  With a heavier frame maybe, and something like the BW grips.  But it would not be the same mini revolver we all like.

[louiethelump]

Umm..... there is nothing wrong with being ignorant of something, but remaining so after it is brought to your attention is unforgivable.

   

   Do your research for your own good as it makes you look silly the way it is.

   

   There are two types of ACP (acp meaning Automatic Colt Pistol) and the rimless ones (380 and 45) do and always have head spaced on the case mouth.  The rimmed ones did not and do not.  But believe as you wish.

   

   The 25acp, 32acp and 38acp ARE NOT today's cartridges.  They are old.  Read your history and learn.

[louiethelump]

Here is a little article that is very basic but gets right to the point. It appears to have been taken from "Cartridges of the World", and this would be a good book for you. A good place for you to start:

   

   .32 ACP

   From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   .32 ACP

   

   7.65 mm Browning rounds. Left: standard FMJ. Right: military FMJ with nickel coating.

   Type   Pistol

   Place of origin    United States

   Production history

   Designer   John Browning

   Manufacturer   Fabrique Nationale

   Produced   1899

   Specifications

   Case type   Semi-rimmed, straight

   Bullet diameter   .309 in (7.8 mm)

   Neck diameter   .336 in (8.5 mm)

   Base diameter   .337 in (8.6 mm)

   Rim diameter   .358 in (9.1 mm)

   Rim thickness   .045 in (1.1 mm)

   Case length   .680 in (17.3 mm)

   Overall length   .984 in (25.0 mm)

   Ballistic performance

   Bullet weight/type   Velocity   Energy

   65 gr (4.2 g) JHP   925 ft/s (282 m/s)   123 ft·lbf (167 J)

   71 gr (4.6 g) FMJ   900 ft/s (270 m/s)   128 ft·lbf (174 J)

   Test barrel length: 4 in

   Source(s): Federal Cartridge[1]

   .32 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), also known as the .32 Automatic is a pistol cartridge. It is a semi-rimmed, straight-walled cartridge developed by firearms designer John Browning, initially for use in the FN M1900 semi-automatic pistol. It was introduced in 1899 by Fabrique Nationale, and is also known as the 7.65×17mm Browning SR or 7.65 mm Browning.[2]

   Contents  [hide]  

   1 History

   2 Design

   3 Performance

   4 Synonyms

   5 Prominent firearms chambered in .32 ACP

   6 See also

   7 References

   8 External links

   [edit]History

   

   John Browning engineered a number of modern semi-automatic pistol mechanisms and cartridges. As his first pistol cartridge, the .32 ACP needed a straight wall for reliable blowback operation as well as a small rim for reliable feeding from a box magazine. The cartridge headspaces on the rim.[3] The cartridge was a success and was adopted by dozens of countries and countless governmental agencies.

   The .32 ACP cartridge was chambered in a variety of popular blowback automatic pistols of the day, including the Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless, the Savage Model 1907 Automatic Pistol, and the Browning Model 1910 Automatic Pistol. The .32 ACP was used[4][5][6] in the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand by Gavrilo Princip, and the pistol, a Browning M1910 (serial number 19074), is on display in the Army Museum of Vienna.

   Allegedly, Adolf Hitler committed suicide with his personal .32 ACP Walther PPK,[7] by pressing it against his right temple and pulling the trigger while simultaneously biting down on a cyanide capsule.

   [edit]Design

   

   The .32 ACP was designed for blowback semi-automatic pistols which lacked a breech locking mechanism. The relatively low power made it a practical blowback round. It is still used today primarily in compact, inexpensive pistols. Cartridges in .32 ACP are also sometimes used in caliber conversion sleeves, also known as supplemental chambers, for providing an alternative pistol caliber carbine function in .30-caliber hunting rifles.

   [edit]Performance

   

   The .32 ACP is compact and light, but short ranged, having marginal stopping power.[8] Weapons chambered in it are often valued for their compactness and light weight relative to larger caliber pistols, particularly for concealed carry use. It offers more velocity and energy than the .32 S&W, which was a popular round for pocket defensive revolvers at the time of the .32 ACP's development. Although of lighter bullet weight, the .32 ACP also compares favorably to the .32 S&W Long in performance.

   The .32 ACP is quite suitable for varmint hunting, although most handguns chambered for this round have little, if any, type of sights for improving accuracy.

   The .32 ACP is one of the most common calibers used in veterinary "humane killers", such as the Greener Humane Killer. The relatively low power is not a concern with a muzzle-contact shot to the skull. As a result the round has been found to be perfectly adequate for the purpose, even where fully grown horses and bulls are concerned.

   In Europe, where the round is commonly known as the 7.65 mm Browning, the .32 ACP has always been more widely accepted than it has in America, having a long history of use by civilians as well as military and police agencies.[2]

   Today the cartridge increased in popularity due to modern compact concealed carry pistols chambered for it, such as the Kel-Tec P-32, Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp LWS 32 and North American Arms Guardian .32 This increase in popularity has led many ammunition manufacturers to develop new loads for the cartridge which have better performance.

   [edit]Synonyms

   

   32 Auto (typical designation in America)

   32 Browning Auto

   7.65×17mm

   7.65×17mmSR (SR — Semi-Rimmed)

   7.65 mm Browning (typical designation in Europe)

   7.65 walther

   [edit]Prominent firearms chambered in .32 ACP

   

   Beretta 81 and 82

   Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless

   CZ-50

   ČZ vz. 27

   FÉG 37M Pistol

   FN M1900

   FN Model 1910 and 1910/22

   Kel-Tec P-32

   Mauser HSc

   Remington 51

   Sauer 38H

   Savage Model 1907

   Seecamp LWS 32

   Škorpion vz. 61 Machine pistol

   Walther PP

   Walther PPK

[louiethelump]

ummmm....  here is the link to the SAAMI PDF with the specs that you incorrectly quoted from SAAMI for handgun cartridges.  On page 29 of the PDF you will find the 32acp and by reading the drawings and using the key posted on the same page you will see the headspace dimension very clearly shows the RIM to be the headspace point and in fact the headspace IS the rim thickness itself.

   

   Please take the time to look at this.  I have done all the work for you.

   

   http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf">http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

[keith44]

no dice, my books recommend and reamers are set for case mouth head space

[bill_deshivs]

The .32 acp was DESIGNED to headspace on the rim!

[Uncle_Lee]