Winchester Super-X 22LR

[ex-mousekateer]

I didn't see anything on it here, so I don't know if it's just my experience or if Winchester "whitebox" Super-X 22LR is a no-no for NAA's?  I picked up a 555-rnd box of it at Walmart last week, to have another flavor of ammo to feed the gun and see what it prefers.

To my surprise, the Winchester ammo doesn't fit the LR cylinder.  It's bad enough, it would probably require a hammer to ram it in...and then hold your breath that it doesn't blow up in your face when fired.  I did find this thread, indicating it's not an unheard of problem with Winchester bulk:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542714

I knew Walmart wouldn't take it back, but wanted to see what they thought at the sporting goods counter, anyway.  The guy that was in was surprisingly a big 22 aficionado and took great interest in the topic.  I brought in the LR cylinder (to which he also took great interest) to demonstrate the problem, and he was stumped, having shot lots of Winchester in his guns.  He opened another box on the shelf, and it had the same problem.

So, I gave the box to a friend, since it wasn't going to do me any good.  He tried it out in one of his rifles and it was a snug but not gritty fit.  He had a non-bulk box of Super-X that he had never opened (and the bullets were all corroded upon opening), so he checked that and it was nearly the same problem as the whitebox, just not as extreme.  He also had some non-Super-X Winchester that dropped in the LR cylinder perfectly, just as my CCI ammo does.  Same for some Remington ammo he had.

So, long story short, a) NAA cylinders are probably tighter tolerances than many bolt action 22's, and b) Winchester Super-X should be avoided no matter what you're shooting it in.  Has anyone had better luck with it?

[PaducahMichael]

I have not found ANY Winchester that will fit the cylinder of my Ruger Bearcat Shopkeeper. All are too tight.

No other .22lr has been a problem for that gun.

[ex-mousekateer]

Yuck, that's even worse than I suspected.  Good thing Winchester PDX-1 isn't available anywhere...I won't be tempted to try any more of their ammo.

I'm surprised NAA doesn't have Winchester on their short list of brands to avoid, along with PMC and Armscor.

[redhawk4]

I have a box of Winchester 22 LR Super X Power Points that are in the clear plastic box, which I know I've fired some of in my Ranger II and which in checking go perfectly into the cylinder. I have had those a few years now so they are not a recent purchase.  I also have a box of Winchester White box 22 LR 36 gr HP, 333 rounds per box that I marked as purchased in December 2013 that I dug out recently that had somehow got tucked out of sight in my ammo collection, that fit perfectly in my Ranger II cylinder having just tried them. So I'm confused as to why there are problems, unless Winchester have changed the dimensions of their ammo. It seems if they won't fit in the NAA's then they should pose problems in any firearm chambered in 22.

If you suspect a problem contact Winchester, I know stores won't take ammo back, but I've heard of the manufacturers helping out customers if there is an issue.

[ex-mousekateer]

Yeah, the guy at the store suggested I contact Winchester.  I was hoping Walmart would see it as enough of a safety issue to call it up the supply chain themselves.

The non-bulk box of Super-X my friend had sounds like the same as your clear plastic box.  Those ones felt like they would drop in with a bit of force, unlike the bulk ones that had enough resistance to probably do damage.  BTW, it's the serrations around the bullet that are what snags.  The rounds don't drop in far enough to see if the case fits.  Whatever the purpose of those serrations is, I'm guessing Winchester has poor quality control on that element and some batches are being made too wide, with even the good batches pushing the limit.

Now, another question would be, have the Ranger II cylinder holes been machined a bit larger than the Black Widow's?  Could that perhaps explain the accuracy issues some people have been struggling with on the RII platform?

[redhawk4]

It sounds like a QC issue on the bullets, if that's what's hanging up. If the bullets are plated perhaps that coating could be too thick, or they just weren't molded right. Potentially it could create an over pressure situation in a gun that will chamber them as they will be too tight going into the barrel. I'd just call Winchester, you might even get some extra free stuff

[ex-mousekateer]

That sounds plausible.

I messaged Winchester through their website.  I didn't see a phone number listed, and since I don't have the box of ammo anymore to see if there's a number on there...  Their contact form is limited to 255 characters (WTH, this isn't twitter), so unless they follow up with me, I wasn't able to pass along much useful info.

[docglock]

... I didn't see a phone number listed

See if these work for you:  (800) 945-5237 or (801) 876-3440

[ex-mousekateer]

See if these work for you:  (800) 945-5237 or (801) 876-3440

Thanks.  I'll give them a chance to reply first, but I'll hold onto those numbers.

[JRobyn]

I've got a few 50 rnd boxes of Win Super-X that were probably manufactured in 2016/2017.  They appear to be nicely made and fit fine.

[MR_22]

I don't love the white-box Winchester .22 bulk ammo. If it shoots in your revolver or cycles in your gun, sure, use it. It just hasn't been really reliable in my guns. Unless you get misfires, it should probably be OK in your NAA revolvers.

Since .22LR ammo prices have spiked, about all I shoot anymore is CCI. If you've got to pay higher prices, why not just get the better stuff?

[ex-mousekateer]

I've got a few 50 rnd boxes of Win Super-X that were probably manufactured in 2016/2017.  They appear to be nicely made and fit fine.

I don't know if that's better or worse...  I think I'd rather have a consistently poor fit on certain guns than inconsistent sizing by batch, being something you can't return.

I don't love the white-box Winchester .22 bulk ammo. If it shoots in your revolver or cycles in your gun, sure, use it. It just hasn't been really reliable in my guns. Unless you get misfires, it should probably be OK in your NAA revolvers.

Since .22LR ammo prices have spiked, about all I shoot anymore is CCI. If you've got to pay higher prices, why not just get the better stuff?

I have three varieties of CCI (2 LR's, 1 CCI/Speer Gold Dot) and all fit perfectly.  The CCI on special is cheaper than Walmart's Winchester bulk price, so there's no reason to try the Winchester other than to see if it works better.  Since CCI is #1 in 22 cal according to most people, there's even less reason to give Winchester a second look.

[Canoeal]

I too buy good stuff. CCI hp+v, Gold Dots and Hornady FTX... I shoot what I carry, but sometimes if I plan on a long session, I shoot the CCI.

[OV-1D]

  Between $5 bucks and $8 bucks I'll buy the $5 bucks especially 22 ammo . With 22's the difference is so very minimal , except the prices . With Mousey he got a bad box of ammo big deal , move on and file the ridges down and fire away . I'll buy and shoot anything American but NO FORIEGN AMMO , primers are always in question not alone powder .

[ex-mousekateer]

I got a speedy reply from Winchester.  They want me to send the ammo back for inspection (pre-paid return label and a check written to cover the purchase price), so now I need to get it back from my friend...

With Mousey he got a bad box of ammo big deal

3 out of 3 boxes of the same stuff were bad, 2 from the same [new] batch, one from who knows how long ago.

[OV-1D]

  That is SO STRANGE , really . Never , ever had any problems remotely close to what you've explained . 

[ex-mousekateer]

  That is SO STRANGE , really . Never , ever had any problems remotely close to what you've explained . 

The best attempt at an explanation I can come up with, and it's just a wild guess, is that they have regional plants and whichever one supplies this area, is machining the bullets too big.

The .22 fan dude at the store couldn't make sense of it, and my buddy has military experience and lots of trigger time, so it can't be explained away by something stupid on my part.  One of them would have caught it.

And to the other point, I ain't filing down 555 bullets that cost more that ammo that doesn't need any attention! 

[OV-1D]

  Just one at a time Mousey , just one at a time . Ha ,ha ,ha ,ha.

[ex-mousekateer]

  Just one at a time Mousey , just one at a time . Ha ,ha ,ha ,ha.

I mean, that is one way to keep shooting costs low.  By the time you've emptied one cylinder and spent 25 cents on ammo, you're ready to call it a day!

[cfsharry]

CCI has always been my go to brand for LR. Like Canoeal I practice with what I carry. Gold Dots in magnum.

[ex-mousekateer]

Winchester sent a check for a bit more than the purchase price, and a letter saying that their QC team is looking into the problem.

[redhawk4]

I'd just call Winchester, you might even get some extra free stuff

Looks like I was right, even if the check was only for slightly more, that's still free stuff - called money

[ex-mousekateer]

Looks like I was right, even if the check was only for slightly more, that's still free stuff - called money

Yep.  I'm satisfied with the resolution.  The over-refund somewhat compensates for the hassle of having to drive 30-40 minutes round trip to the nearest UPS (their only return option) location that can accept ammo.  I'll be curious to hear what they determine.