Hello, new member, and questions about Guardians

[User7]

Hello to all!  I came across this forum a few weeks ago and have been lurking it.  I've been mulling around the idea of buying a Bersa Thunder CC for a while.  I currently have Ruger sp101's in the glove box in two cars, a GP100 on the night stand.  My job involves a fair amount of driving time, so didn't give much thought to actual concealed carry.  I then remembered that NAA made a little semi auto and started looking it up again over the last couple of weeks as the Bersa just seems to have too many safeties for my taste and I would like something in steel and while I don't like da triggers, I've been working with the revolvers for a couple of years.

And yesterday I did something stupid in the drive through - I rolled down the passenger window when a woman gussied up walked up with a big cardboard box and tried to show me her wares while I was trying to order food at the same time - declined the smart watch and then the flash light she handed me "do you know what this is?" - and whilst grabbing my bag of food I heard "burrsnippsnippburr" and she said "that's what this does" - I didn't jump because I've owned a stun gun in the past and know what one sounds like and that it hurts but won't knock you out and maybe due to slow reflexes and being faced towards the drive through attendent and my focus on my chicken sandwiches, but it made me wonder about having a gun on my person instead of in the glove box.  If I had reached over towards the glove box I would have been in range of her zapping me before I got the gun available.  Or maybe she would have zapped me and grabbed the gun while I was reaching for it.

Lesson learned - quit being so friendly and don't roll down the window for strangers.  And have the gun on your person instead of across the vehicle.

Anywho,

I'm thinking a Guardian might meet my needs for a simple gun that I would have no excuse for ever leaving home no matter the clothing or weather.  I'd like some opinions on drawbacks, the good bad and ugly, ect...

.32 acp enough as far as power goes? 

.32 NAA seems to run around 70 cents a round and only Hornady makes it...

How nasty is 380 out of this as far as recoil goes?  Seems to have decent ammo selection online.

For camparison to what I've used in the past, I had a Bond Arms Snake Slayer .410 as a gun that could fit in a pocket - unpleasant recoil and never did get used to the trigger, but the one and only time I fired it outside wo hearing protection left me with ringing in my ears for two days - sold it as I figured if I ever needed to shoot it in the house or even while in the car I would be deaf forever.  Was very well made though. 

A long time ago had a Kahr pm9 - very unpleasant recoil.  Traded it in on a CZ75 and fired many thousands of rounds through that and got to be a decent shot.

Any advice and insight re the Guardian would be welcome.  (Situational awareness, yes, I've started to lose that as I no longer work in a mental hospital, but if it makes anyone feel better I always carry a auto knife in my breast pocket so I was not totally unarmed)

[User7]

And I forgot to ask one of the biggest questions I was thinking of - for those who use an extended 10 rnd magazine, does it help while shooting and does it still keep the gun small enough to carry in a pocket?

[Ruger]

Hey User7 . . . WELCOME to the forum!  Don't be shy, keep those questions, opinions, and stories comin'.  We appreciate them all!

As to your questions, I cant answer them for the Guardian, but I will say that any hole where it doesn't belong is not good, whether we are talking about the wall, floor, your foot, or the bad guy.  Carry what you feel is reliable and comfortable for you.  I would also not consider your hearing or recoil issues when selecting your carry options.  Those are range issues, not self defense issues.  I figure I will probably not have my ear protection on when confronted with the situation where I need to reveal my firearm, or notice the recoil at that moment.  I love my 38sp LCR: it is not a fun range gun, but I would pull it out in a second if needed and have no issues using it to defend myself.

[bearcatter]

I'm the new owner of a Guardian 32, having only had it a couple of weeks. I did a lot of research first, and the 32 is perfect for me. All stainless, no plastic except the grips and mag bottoms. Extremely pocketable, and light, but not so light to let recoil get out of hand.

I chose .32 over a .380 Guardian because:  The 32 is about a 1/4 inch less in length, 1/2 inch less tall, and 1/8th inch thinner. It's 5 ounces lighter, loaded. Ballistically, you don't gain that much with .380 except a lot more recoil. I compare the 32's recoil to my snub SP101 shooting 125 gr 38s. The .380 would be more like an S&W Airweight shooting 158 gr .38+P. No thanks.

Another recoil issue is recovery, getting the gun back on target. The .32, having less recoil, will have less muzzle flip, letting you get back on target faster. Let's face it, with either caliber, it may take 2-3 rounds to get the bad guy on the ground. One price you pay for easy concealability.

The fit and finish are excellent, and it's been fed 50 rounds of Aguila and Remington FMJ, without a hiccup. .32ACP ammo is harder to find than .380, but locally I can get Aguila, Remington, and Winchester. FMJ is recommended by most, because HP doesn't expand much if at all, and greatly reduces penetration. One local big box had bore brushes, but I had to get patch jags online. I knew picking .32 would be a minor headache, but not bad. I'm all done with that, with 500 rounds of ammo and a dozen brushes on hand.

The only real complaint I've read is the trigger pull, that if a figure is given, it's usually ten pounds. NAA gave it a slightly heavy pull to reduce the chance of an accidental discharge in your pocket. Ouch!.....I don't have a problem with that. It gradually stacks to the 10 lb right before the release.

I think the Guardian is the best pocket gun on the market. No regrets at all.

[Warthog]

First let me Welcome USER7 to the forum...

I have a Guardian in 32 acp, it is a great weapon and can do the job.  You need to get yourself to the range and practice with it, that will make it easier for you too.  I put hardwood grips on mine and a Pearce magazine extension due to having large hands, makes it easier for me to hold.  However it does make the gun wider and a bit harder to conceal, if that is something you worry about.  I like my Guardian a lot, it is a nice gun and accurate shooting.  The round is a good self defense round too.

The longer magazine will not let you keep it in a pocket though so you will have to stick to the 6 round magazine

[RogueTS1]

I have the .380 Guardian User7. While I believe the .32 will deliver the goods I am much more prone to the .380 acp. As you stated ammo is much more available and the recoil is nothing. The Princess has shot it and states the trigger pull and the recoil, "are nothing." She does not have Gorilla hands/grip and would let us know if it was otherwise. She hates most revolvers because of the double action trigger pull.

Mine has been customized by the NAA Custom Shop with better sights and it is my understanding that they do a bit of trigger/action work at the same time so this may account for my buttery smooth and not too heavy trigger pull. If you do not need a lightweight pocket pistol I believe the Guardian of either variety will fill your needs.

PS: welcome to the asylum.

[User7]

Thanks for all the replies - lots of good info. 

Ruger - I'm hoping to never have another story concerning safety/self defense in my life but I will say that I was kind of anti-gun until about age 21 or 22, pulled out of my apartment complex and pulled up behind a car with no tags at a traffic light.  The guy in that car raised up a pistol in his hand, waved it around and then took off.  Before cell phones were common, no tag to report anyway.  I had done absolutely nothing to provoke him.  Wouldn't have been able to do anything about it if he'd started shooting.  I think I bought my first pistol within the month.

bearcatter - thanks, I've been reading your posts.  "The .380 would be more like an S&W Airweight shooting 158 gr .38+P. No thanks."  Fired that out of a friends airweight - did not finish the cylinder.  Have you ever ordered ammo online?  I'm partial to it since the local shops seem to jack up the price.

Warty - thanks for the info on the extended magazines.  I've got sausage fingers so I was curious about them as the more purchase I can get on something the better.  With the Pearce, are you able to get at least your middle and ring finger on it?  (if you tell me you can get some of your pinky on it I'll be very happy)

Rogue - I think I'd prefer .380 if it was tolerable to practice with a good bit but been reading otherwise by a decent number of folks.  Are you able to get at least two fingers on the grip?  Would you be willing to shoot a hundred rounds through it in a shooting session?  And I am glad the princess does not have gorilla hands.   

I used to hate double action triggers but have gotten used to them after I switched from autos to revolvers so I think I'd get used to the trigger quickly.  I like stainless steel better than blued due to the humid climate I live in.  I doubt the local firing range has one to rent and shoot - they cater more towards the tactical folks and the university kids.

While driving around today from patient to patient, I was paying attention to what I wear.  Scrub top, cargo pants as most scrub pants I can't stand wearing since they're unisex at best.  I even wear cargo pants/shorts in when I'm not working.  The cargo pockets are decent size and velcro topped - I bet I could put a guardian in a pocket holster and put it in the cargo pocket and have it accessible from my thigh instead of trying to figure out how to draw around the seatbelt around my waist or buying a driving holster or some other rig.

And joining the forum and having the captcha thing has reminded me to get an eye exam.  Thanks to everybody, got to get to doing some paperwork before the boss gets mad at me again.

[grayelky]

First, Welcome!

I do not own a Guardian, however, if I were considering one, I would lean towards the 32 NAA cartridge. It is basically a 1200 FPS 32 ACP. It will take a little more practice to be able to control it, but, I feel it would be worth the effort. My second choice would be the 32 ACP, for most of the reasons already put forth by bearcatter and Warty. The .32 is easier to shoot accurately and easier to control. In the reported police investigated shootings, it always performs better than its numbers predict it will, usually being on a par with the .380 ACP.

The 10 round mag would be a good choice as a back-up magazine in the event more ammo is needed, but would likely become unwieldy quickly when trying to carry it concealed.

[bill_deshivs]

I own a .32 Guardian. I carry a Keltec P32.
The Guardian is well made, but it's too heavy to pocket carry, in my opinion.
The Keltec recoils less, as it is a locked breech gun, and it weighs about half what the Guardian weighs.
The Keltec holds more ammunition. It's slightly larger than the NAA, but much thinner.

[Kevin55]

I live in California, so they have made the decision process much easier...
Only about 5% of all handguns available in the USA are available here. 

The Seecamp website has nice comparison chart of the small guns. 

If you search for reviews, for a really small pistol, the 380 round is often described uncontrollable and uncomfortable to shoot.

I wish NAA had a polymer frame model.  Of course it probably wouldn't be available in CA.

[User7]

I'm still on probation so have no idea when this response will show up...

grayelky - I really like the concept of the 32 NAA but since I don't reload because I don't have much free time and the current rounds available run around 70 cents a round, got to narrow it down between 32acp and 380.

bill_deshivs - I'm not one to argue with what someone else likes.  I'm just partial to stainless steel.

Kevin - you have to move.  CA would be the best place if there were many less people and bizzaro legislation. 

[billmeek]

I'm still on probation so have no idea when this response will show up...

Stick with it.  You'll get past the probation delay. 

[bearcatter]

bearcatter - thanks, I've been reading your posts.  "The .380 would be more like an S&W Airweight shooting 158 gr .38+P. No thanks."  Fired that out of a friends airweight - did not finish the cylinder.  Have you ever ordered ammo online?  I'm partial to it since the local shops seem to jack up the price.................the captcha thing has reminded me to get an eye exam. 

Locally I'm lucky to have one good and one not so good big box. Sportsman's Warehouse has Aguila .32ACP for $17.99, and Remington for $19.99, both 71 gr FMJ. Gander has the same Remington for $23.99. I'd like Federal if I could get it, it's always been my go-to ammo. But I have no complaint with those. The Aguila seems a touch hotter than Remington.

Now that my Gander has re-opened, it still can't beat Sportsman's. But, I've found PMC at a LGS for $32.99, ouch. Three other LGSs I haven't bothered to check. I've never bought ammo online, always been able to get enough at prices below online with shipping.

Those Captchas are a pain, but doesn't take long to dream up enough posts to stop it....

[RogueTS1]

Rogue - I think I'd prefer .380 if it was tolerable to practice with a good bit but been reading otherwise by a decent number of folks.  Are you able to get at least two fingers on the grip?  Would you be willing to shoot a hundred rounds through it in a shooting session?  And I am glad the princess does not have gorilla hands. 

Using the Pearce grips I can get all three fingers on the grip of my Guardian .380 acp. I have normally sized hands. Using the NAA extended base plates I can get two fingers on the grip and the pinky rests just under the extension. (all about the shape of the curved plate, not the size.) Pearce is way better shaped.

I often hear people stating that the .380 cartridge is a bear to shoot out of any of these little autos; (LCP, Guardian, Keltec, Beretta etc etc etc). I just have never seen it. They are nothing to shoot. They are quite mild to me and once again; I/we are not gorillas. I would shoot 100 rounds in a session without problem. I believe the last time the LCP vs the Guardian outing at the range we brought 100 round case for each and shot them all without problem or tired hands.

If you prefer .380 acp then I would suggest grabbing the .380 and using it.

[billmeek]

I have one of the Ruger LCP II pistols.  For me, it's not a problem to shoot.  There is more snap rather than recoil compared to my bigger and heavier 9mm guns. It's a combination of the light weight and limited grip on the LCP II.  One thing that helped was to add a Talon Grip to provide a better hold. 

Even without the Talon, I could control the .380 well. But it's not a range toy and will wear me out a lot quicker than most of my other firearms.

[User7]

I guess what I'm going to have to do is check around this weekend at gunstores and see if there are any in stock and how they feel in my hands, if I can find one.  (I'd like to at least do that before having one ordered and buying blind) 

If I could get all three fingers on the grip with the Pearce's might make me lean towards the .380. 

[User7]

And though I hadn't thought of it before I started reading up on the Black Widow this evening - I'm not going to rule that one out either.

[User7]

Went by five stores this morning - no Guardians.

Two had okay selection of minis but no black widow. 

One store (the only one that staff bothered to spend any time with me) did have a .22 with both cylinders and I considered it except it had porting and I just don't know if I could get used to one finger on the grip.  That store did offer to order a black widow with both cylinders and it would be $305 before tax.  Reasonable price? 

At least I got to handle the mini and I think I'd be comfortable with the larger rubber grips on the black widow.  NAA seems to be as well built as the Bond I used to have.  Just wish there'd been a guardian around to compare it to.   

[billmeek]

That store did offer to order a black widow with both cylinders and it would be $305 before tax.  Reasonable price? 

I'd say that's a reasonable price.  You can order it online for $265 online plus $15 shipping to an FFL dealer.  But then (locally) I'd have to pay $25 FFL dealer fee and $10 background check putting the final price at $315 (bypassing TN tax).  But I'd rather buy locally if I can get a decent deal.

[Canoeal]

ones I see for $265 do not have the conversion, $305 seems OK for a conversion model...

[theysayimnotme]

I'm still on probation so have no idea when this response will show up...

grayelky - I really like the concept of the 32 NAA but since I don't reload because I don't have much free time and the current rounds available run around 70 cents a round, got to narrow it down between 32acp and 380.

bill_deshivs - I'm not one to argue with what someone else likes.  I'm just partial to stainless steel.

Kevin - you have to move.  CA would be the best place if there were many less people and bizzaro legislation.

How is it going to help the problems we have in the Demokratik People's Republik of Kalifornia if the rest of the gun owners move out? We need more to move IN.
I have both a .32 ACP Guardian & a Black Widow & I tend to believe the Black Widow would be better for concealed carry. The Guardian is heavy for it's size & would likely print more. I would like to have one of the plastic .380s but this is the DPRK & they are not available unless you could find one on consignment which is how I got my Black Widow. I also think the 1 5/8" magnum would be a reasonable choice but again they are not available here.

[User7]

Last post of the day since I've got to get back to paperwork so hopefully can have an entire Sunday off without having to think about work.  I'm really leaning towards the Black Widow, for now.  Obviously I'm going to want to sample some of each and end up with a ridiculous pocket gun obsession, but I can think of worse things to spend disposable income on. 

theysayimnotme - They'll let you have a bw but not the reg magnum and have the NAA .32 but not a keltec or whatever?  And home prices are how much in SF or SD?  I feel for you guys but am not optimistic things will change for the better out there.  Got enough carpet baggers moving down here trying to change things but enough irritated rednecks to keep change at a snails pace.  You need to pray for another dustbowl that will draw in some Okies.

Both Canoeal and billmeek, thank you.

Canoeal, I think I've seen a few posts on the board that you have a bw.  I don't remember off hand if you have a lr or mag or both, but what would you pick out of these options (I have ordered from this company in the past and is my favorite for online ordering) for plinking/target practice or carry?  Or other recommendations are good as well.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-lr-ammo?sort=round_low

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-magnum-ammo?sort=round_low

Looks like .22mag has come down in price a good bit from a few years ago and .22lr  is easier to find again.  If anyone else would like to throw their thoughts in, that's good too. 

[billmeek]

ones I see for $265 do not have the conversion, $305 seems OK for a conversion model...

$265 + $15 shipping:

https://www.gunsmidwest.com/naa-blk-widow-22-22m-2-fs-5sh.html

But by the time you add in the local FFL transfer fee/background check, it's in the range of the $305 local price and I'd rather support my neighborhood gun shop.

[Uncle_Lee]

I think that you will be happy with the BW to carry.
I carried a Sidewinder for a while but I like the feel of the BW better.
You can always change the grips on the smaller minis to a larger rubber ones or the Cvang grips (which I use on all my carry minis).

[oughtsix]

I live in California, so they have made the decision process much easier...
Only about 5% of all handguns available in the USA are available here. 

The Seecamp website has nice comparison chart of the small guns. 

If you search for reviews, for a really small pistol, the 380 round is often described uncontrollable and uncomfortable to shoot.

I wish NAA had a polymer frame model.  Of course it probably wouldn't be available in CA.

I have owned a Guardian .32 ever since they came out, 20 years or so.  Fantastic pistole and it was the only pistole like it (at an affordable price, seecamp) at the time.  I carried it for years and will never sell it.  For me it is too heavey for a pocket gun.

My everyday carry in the winter is an LCP.  My everyday carry in the summer is a NAA .22 mag 1 5/8.  When I go to "the big city" I will carry my Kahr CM9 or XDS .45 acp.  As much as I love my Guardian, and will never sell it, it does collect dust in the safe next to the .25 acp CZ it replaced.

I have never felt comfortable having my car gun in the glove compartment or arm rest.  I like my car gun more accessable... which is not nearly as easy as it should be.

[Canoeal]

Last post of the day since I've got to get back to paperwork so hopefully can have an entire Sunday off without having to think about work.  I'm really leaning towards the Black Widow, for now.  Obviously I'm going to want to sample some of each and end up with a ridiculous pocket gun obsession, but I can think of worse things to spend disposable income on. 

theysayimnotme - They'll let you have a bw but not the reg magnum and have the NAA .32 but not a keltec or whatever?  And home prices are how much in SF or SD?  I feel for you guys but am not optimistic things will change for the better out there.  Got enough carpet baggers moving down here trying to change things but enough irritated rednecks to keep change at a snails pace.  You need to pray for another dustbowl that will draw in some Okies.

Both Canoeal and billmeek, thank you.

Canoeal, I think I've seen a few posts on the board that you have a bw.  I don't remember off hand if you have a lr or mag or both, but what would you pick out of these options (I have ordered from this company in the past and is my favorite for online ordering) for plinking/target practice or carry?  Or other recommendations are good as well.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-lr-ammo?sort=round_low

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-magnum-ammo?sort=round_low

Looks like .22mag has come down in price a good bit from a few years ago and .22lr  is easier to find again.  If anyone else would like to throw their thoughts in, that's good too.

I have the BW in 22 mag only. My recommendation for carry ammo is Gold Dot first, Hornady FTX 45 grain second, and as a backup or target ammo CCI maxi Mag HP+V 30 grains. Mine did not like CCI Maxi Mag 40 grain, as it keyholed. Remington accutip, and the polymer tipped CCI and Hornadys work OK too. I chose the three I did, because they work best in my gun..YMMV...
Armscor was added to the list of bad ammo by NAA...

[theysayimnotme]

theysayimnotme - They'll let you have a bw but not the reg magnum and have the NAA .32 but not a keltec or whatever?  And home prices are how much in SF or SD?  I feel for you guys but am not optimistic things will change for the better out there.  Got enough carpet baggers moving down here trying to change things but enough irritated rednecks to keep change at a snails pace.  You need to pray for another dustbowl that will draw in some Okies.

It's not what they will let us have but what we can buy. NAA has paid for the  1 1/8" Mag & L.R to be on the approved list but not the others. We can only buy them if we can find one that is already legally owned & buy from the owner in a private party purchase. Dealers can sell them on consignment but not from their own stock. That's how I got my Black Widow & my second Guardian. (I have since sold my first, on consignment of course.) Even after paying 20%  & including the Kalifornia junk fees I wound up with more than I paid for the second one & it was melted & stippled on the front of the grip. I will never understand why the price was so low unless the dealer told the seller they had ruined the gun by having it melted. I did see the picture of her driver's license & maybe she was just pissed at her husband.

There's nothing wrong with Kalifornia that a good earthquake dropping a large part of the left coast into the Pacific Ocean can't cure.

[User7]

theysayimnotme, 

Well, sat on the idea a couple of days and ordered the BW with the extra cylinder today.  Hopefully will be here early next week.  If I like the booger I'm sure I'll end up ordering more weapons.  Also a reminder to self to renew my carry permit.

[Canoeal]

Enjoy!

[Uncle_Lee]

I think you will be happy with this one (and the next, and the next, etc, etc).

[User7]

The Black Widow came in early - picked it up yesterday.  I like the way it feels in my hand - I can get both the middle and ring finger on the grip and it's tacky enough that my pinky can of rub the bottom without sliding around.  The construction seems very good - at least as good as the Bond I used to have and I really like the trigger compared to it (no weird angle to "switch").

I have to wait until the end of next week for my ammo order to come in.  Ordered about 300 rounds of .22 mag Speer GD and 1800 .22lr rounds of "Swamp People" cci mini mags.  Part of that due to Canoeal's recommendation and part of that due to shootingthebull's youtube tests.  I think that's enough ammo to last me for a minute...

I let the woman play with it briefly with the cylinder out (at least according to the faq it's safe to dry fire that way) - her exact words were "that's like a mini revolver!".   

So now I'm wanting one for her if she wants it and is interested in getting her cc permit.  I can see myself wanting another one or something similar as can't really do quick reloads.  I can see getting a couple of Henry survival rifles to keep in the cars.  Got to pace myself though, closing on a house next week.

[billmeek]

Congratulations on the new Black Widow.  You must be even more patient than I am as I'd be out buying a box (or likely more) to "get me by" until my bigger order of ammo arrived.

[User7]

billmeek,

Yep, I'm patient.  It actually arrived at the shop a lot quicker than I was promised so had already placed my online ammo order.  Ammo did come in today - I have managed to load the weapon without shooting my finger off and figured out the safety notch which I'm pleased about.  On Saturday I should be able to get to the range and see how it goes.  I've got a bad feeling as I'm starting to read posts about the Rangers and Sidewinders and am already thinking about faster reloading and I haven't even shot the BW yet.  Must maintain monetary discipline...

[User7]

I also had forgotten to mention in a previous post another thing I really like about the BW are the sights - I was expecting micro dots I would barely be able to make out but they're nice and big even for someone with marginal vision like myself.

[billmeek]

Must maintain monetary discipline...

That one made me laugh as I bought my first 2 NAA pistols about one week apart.  I want a Black Widow next, but am planning on holding off until they are available with the XS Big Dot night sights like I have on the Pug. We'll have to see how that plan pans out.