Ranger II Hows everyones doin

[Canoeal]

Copper on flint while not the easiest can be made to spark...Just a thought. That and the heat of a bullet laying in the grass may be able to smolder...It is not rocket science. That and any still burning powder could be a cause a fire...Like shooting rifle rounds in a Mini ...

[Bigbird48]

Goat Read this
http://wildfiretoday.com/2013/12/05/researchers-study-ignition-of-wildfires-by-rifle-bullets

Last week we had a fire about 5 miles from me, started by a truck dragging a chain, burnt up about 10 acres and shut down the interstate for 5 hours. I live at the very edge of the Tonto Natl. Forest

Target Shooting a Major Cause of Arizona Forest Fires
Ray Stern | August 1, 2013 | 4:00am
Gary Hanna's cruising through the desert wildlands east of Phoenix in his white SUV, hunting for shooters.

On this warm early morning in late June, the forest ranger is one of several state and federal officials patrolling the southern Tonto National Forest on the lookout for one of the most frequent causes of wildfires — people shooting guns. It's the reason behind as many as 31 Tonto fires since 2009, authorities say.

I have always been curious about this.
Lead and copper don't spark when hitting steel targets (typically).
Is it just crazy people shooting tracers or steel core ammunition or how does a fire start without a spark?
Is a shot bullet laying in the grass hot enough to start the grass on fire?

I can understand the dragging chains (the steel can produce sparks when hit against the proper type of rocks).
Lead and copper typically don't produce sparks.

They seem to have evidence of shooters starting fires but what is the root cause....not just shooting but the mechanics of how they started?

Pat

[LHB]

When I was in college, my friends and I started several grass fires in the fall at the local club, shooting surplus Russian crap that the lacquer coloring had been removed from when it was cleaned.   I have never owned a Russian or Com-Block gun, to my knowledge, but my friends did, because they could get the ammo for a penny a round.  It was stuff that Israel had captured from Egypt, and you never knew what would happen when you pulled the trigger.   A few would miss-fire, some would hang fire, and if it fired, you didn't know if it was a ball round, red tracer (which started a few fires), smoke tracer, AP, or what really started fires when it the steel plate target, was AP incendiary. 

[RogueTS1]

BigBird; how does this ban thing work in relation to private property?

[redhawk4]

We tend to think in terms of bullets starting  by sparks, but that isn't necessarily the case. If we can remember basic physics, we know that energy is maintained in a collision. So if a rifle bullet travelling at very high speed, with a lot of energy, hits a solid target which doesn't absorb the energy and essentially stops it, where does that energy go? Some will go to the noise of the impact, some to whatever the bullet does afterwards like ricocheting and so on, but alot of that energy will be dissipated in the form of heat, this could make the bullet hot enough to start a fire if it lands on something that will ignite easily.

While there is no doubt fires could start like this, the ones I've heard of starting by shooting have been due to what they were shooting at, things like those exploding targets and so on, one was caused locally when someone shot at the overhead power lines. I do believe that in our current political climate, some fires are blamed on people shooting, when that's not how they started, but those who oppose the 2A will use anything to make gun owners look bad.

[Bigbird48]

I'm not really sure how it works on private property, but I'm sure you would pay the piper big time if you started a fire and it spread to other private or public lands.You know everyone can have their own theories on if shooting will start a fire, theres no doubt that it does. Its been provin and doesn't matter what ammo what gun or anything else. When you see a 100,000 acres of forest burned up, or a phone call at 1am telling you to get out the fires coming your way (happened to me last year)and you look outside and see the whole side of the Mtn up in flames, you don't care what started it, but you want to know that in the future everything possible is being done so it doesn't happen again. So we have sever restrictions right now. No smoking outside, no shooting, no cooking with charcoal or any open flame device.All our highway signs are  warning about the fire danger and telling truckers to check make sure they aren't dragging chains. We've had no rain in the last 7 or 8 months and its dry very dry. Yesterday I road over 50 miles off road up thru the mountains  yesterday 7/4,very rugger terrain. Saw results of last years Goodwin fire and I ran into 3 Forest rangers on the trip all looking for shooters and illegal campers.  They stop at every campsite and tape off the fire pits with orange tape, and every trail they put up cones and closed signs. Up at Crown King there were a dozen fire trucks all parked out in the front ready to go and all the crews sitting out on the deck of the gen store eating Ice Cream, praying they didn't get the call.For those that don't know Crown King is a small town 7000 ft elev access only buy rugged dirt roads thru the mtn pass's. Check it out on google earth , look at the terrain and while your at it pray for RAIN!!

BigBird; how does this ban thing work in relation to private property?

[Canoeal]

Prayin' for rain...Elijah did that, and it worked! Prayers.

[MtGoat]

Goat Read this
http://wildfiretoday.com/2013/12/05/researchers-study-ignition-of-wildfires-by-rifle-bullets/

Last week we had a fire about 5 miles from me, started by a truck dragging a chain, burnt up about 10 acres and shut down the interstate for 5 hours. I live at the very edge of the Tonto Natl. Forest

Target Shooting a Major Cause of Arizona Forest Fires
Ray Stern | August 1, 2013 | 4:00am
Gary Hanna's cruising through the desert wildlands east of Phoenix in his white SUV, hunting for shooters.

On this warm early morning in late June, the forest ranger is one of several state and federal officials patrolling the southern Tonto National Forest on the lookout for one of the most frequent causes of wildfires — people shooting guns. It's the reason behind as many as 31 Tonto fires since 2009, authorities say.

I have always been curious about this.
Lead and copper don't spark when hitting steel targets (typically).
Is it just crazy people shooting tracers or steel core ammunition or how does a fire start without a spark?
Is a shot bullet laying in the grass hot enough to start the grass on fire?

I can understand the dragging chains (the steel can produce sparks when hit against the proper type of rocks).
Lead and copper typically don't produce sparks.

They seem to have evidence of shooters starting fires but what is the root cause....not just shooting but the mechanics of how they started?

Pat

I could not get the link to work but by doing a short Google search I found this:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10694-015-0518-6

A very good eye opening finding.
While they did not test 22LR or 22 Mag rounds the findings were sobering enough to just say no unless shooting in a recently burned area (as in no possibility of starting a fire due to NO fuel present) or at an open established firing range.

This is a new angle I had not considered or read about.

Thank you for the push to do more research.

Pat

[Azshooter]

I've had a ranger II (with both cylinders) on order at my LGS for 7 months now.  I finally aquiesced and bought the 22 mag only ranger they had in the case.  I figure a bird in the hand...  I'll either get a 22LR cylinder at some point or just buy the combo package once available.   No chance to shoot it yet as all the BLM around Tucson is shut down for fire danger.  Can hardly wait to shoot it, I might wear it out before it fires a shot.

[Azshooter]

I'm not really sure how it works on private property, but I'm sure you would pay the piper big time if you started a fire and it spread to other private or public lands.You know everyone can have their own theories on if shooting will start a fire, theres no doubt that it does. Its been provin and doesn't matter what ammo what gun or anything else. When you see a 100,000 acres of forest burned up, or a phone call at 1am telling you to get out the fires coming your way (happened to me last year)and you look outside and see the whole side of the Mtn up in flames, you don't care what started it, but you want to know that in the future everything possible is being done so it doesn't happen again. So we have sever restrictions right now. No smoking outside, no shooting, no cooking with charcoal or any open flame device.All our highway signs are  warning about the fire danger and telling truckers to check make sure they aren't dragging chains. We've had no rain in the last 7 or 8 months and its dry very dry. Yesterday I road over 50 miles off road up thru the mountains  yesterday 7/4,very rugger terrain. Saw results of last years Goodwin fire and I ran into 3 Forest rangers on the trip all looking for shooters and illegal campers.  They stop at every campsite and tape off the fire pits with orange tape, and every trail they put up cones and closed signs. Up at Crown King there were a dozen fire trucks all parked out in the front ready to go and all the crews sitting out on the deck of the gen store eating Ice Cream, praying they didn't get the call.For those that don't know Crown King is a small town 7000 ft elev access only buy rugged dirt roads thru the mtn pass's. Check it out on google earth , look at the terrain and while your at it pray for RAIN!!

BigBird; how does this ban thing work in relation to private property?

Had our first monsoons today down here in Tucson.   More to come.   Relief is on the way.  Hang in there.

[Bigbird48]

Oh wow thats great hope it took some of the edge of the fire danger. I just hope when it comes it isn't the heavy flood monsoon

I'm not really sure how it works on private property, but I'm sure you would pay the piper big time if you started a fire and it spread to other private or public lands.You know everyone can have their own theories on if shooting will start a fire, theres no doubt that it does. Its been provin and doesn't matter what ammo what gun or anything else. When you see a 100,000 acres of forest burned up, or a phone call at 1am telling you to get out the fires coming your way (happened to me last year)and you look outside and see the whole side of the Mtn up in flames, you don't care what started it, but you want to know that in the future everything possible is being done so it doesn't happen again. So we have sever restrictions right now. No smoking outside, no shooting, no cooking with charcoal or any open flame device.All our highway signs are  warning about the fire danger and telling truckers to check make sure they aren't dragging chains. We've had no rain in the last 7 or 8 months and its dry very dry. Yesterday I road over 50 miles off road up thru the mountains  yesterday 7/4,very rugger terrain. Saw results of last years Goodwin fire and I ran into 3 Forest rangers on the trip all looking for shooters and illegal campers.  They stop at every campsite and tape off the fire pits with orange tape, and every trail they put up cones and closed signs. Up at Crown King there were a dozen fire trucks all parked out in the front ready to go and all the crews sitting out on the deck of the gen store eating Ice Cream, praying they didn't get the call.For those that don't know Crown King is a small town 7000 ft elev access only buy rugged dirt roads thru the mtn pass's. Check it out on google earth , look at the terrain and while your at it pray for RAIN!!

BigBird; how does this ban thing work in relation to private property?

Had our first monsoons today down here in Tucson.   More to come.   Relief is on the way.  Hang in there.

[keithd]

I went in for the EB Ranger just to keep as an investment (NIB and never fired). I have been away from the forum for a while and I am wondering now if I should fire it to see if there are any problems. What's the consensus on the EB Ranger II did all have issues I believe my EB is in the low 120's I would have to double check?

[Bigbird48]

I know a lot of the EB's had some problems, can't say they all did but several here on the forum sent them back more then once.As far as shooting yours to see well thats up to you. I don't know if these will ever increase a lot in value since they are a production gun and hundreds have been made. One thing for sure I would never EDC it until I was sure it doesn't have problems. TMO

[keithd]

Thanks Bigbird48

[RogueTS1]

Both my EB Ranger II as well as my EB Sidewinder have still never made it to the range.