Earl cap and ball info

RiverRat9533 · February-26-13 14:02

Has anyone been able to shoot the Earl cap and ball over a chrono yet? I have been real interested in what the longer barrel did with the 777 powder.

Dinadan · February-26-13 19:02

RiverRat - welcome to the forum. Maybe no one has done a chrono test! I am not a black powder shooter myself, so I have no insights. Here is link to a good discussion about BP out of the Earl - no ballistics though.

http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/670/24814.html

TwoGunJayne · February-27-13 13:02

Don't use CCI caps, they usually fragment and you lose your gas seal. Also, misfires galore! I thought something was wrong: it was the caps. Remington works great, but not the rifle-type.
I have experienced no problems at all with a full load of 777 when using the proper Remington caps, no fragged caps, worked great by comparison with CCIs. The CCIs were fragging almost every shot.They're too hot for a NAA C&B.
You'll really want a spare cylinder.
Pack along a can of caps in case you misfire, just to reprime and restrike even if you're not going to load in the field. It's the easiest way to unload a misfired chamber.
A pound of black seems to last forever in the C&B Earl.
Don't load your C&B Earl and let it sit for weeks, you'll get reduced velocity and greater chance of misfire due to moisture. I prefer to load and fire every day or every other day.
The NAA flap holster for it is really nice, I love mine.
You'll have the occasional misfire, hangfire, and fragged cap. It comes with the territory. I blow high pressure air through the cap nipples when cleaning to get more consistent ignition. Wear your eye protection.
Love that stainless for BP use! The cap nipples aren't stainless, go ahead and order a spare set.

RiverRat9533 · February-27-13 16:02

Thanks for the welcome, was on here years ago, on the old forum when I first got my companion. Learned about the Remington number 11 caps back then, was about to throw the companion in the trash until I sat down and read the user manual. Darn good information in them things if you bother to read them.
Besides the obvious that the longer barrel of the Earl would make it more accurate for plinking, I was just curious how the 777 3f and 4f did having the extra length. In the Companion and Super Companions it always seemed powder was still burning after it came out of the barrel and they never lived up to the full potential.
I have spent the last week arguing with the local gun shops that 777 does come in 4f, trying to get someone too order a can with the next shipment. I guess that means I have already decided to add an Earl to the collection.

TwoGunJayne, if you wouldn't mind digging it out, I would love to see the numbers

TwoGunJayne · February-28-13 09:02

Sure thing, I'll chrono it Friday afternoon. I guess I'll also break out my 4" mini-master with lr and mag so we have an idea where we stand. A little 4" side-by-side action?

The only powders I have for the C&B Earl are Pyrodex FFFg and 777 FFFg. Nobody around here carries true black (goex and whatnot) or even percussion caps anymore. I bought out the last stock from the last store in my area that carried them. I have to mail order all this stuff now. Unfortunately, the local black powder world around me has shifted to modern inline 209 ignition, but even worse it's becoming mostly stuff like single shot designs before 1890 and modern smokeless metallic cartridges. They are changing hunting laws in the states and ruining traditional black powder/primitive season. I saw some jack wagon with a scoped H&R single-shot .45-70 and a rangefinder out for primitive. I said, "that CAN'T be legal!" It was, though... laws are changing. It makes me wonder if it's worth pulling out my bow at all anymore.

Anyway, updates Friday afternoon after I pop some percussion caps. Pics will be forthcoming. Until then, I'll accept guesses as to the velocity with a full load of 777. My guess: 700-800 feet per second. We'll see.

Side question: Anyone else CC'ed their C&B Earl?

RiverRat9533 · February-28-13 14:02

TwoGunJayne,
Looking forward to seeing what numbers you post. Will be really interesting to see how it compares to the others.
I am not a muzzle velocity junkie, and used to cringe every time I would read about someone running smokeless through their Super Companions trying to go supersonic. If I am not mistaken, Both the Companion and Super Companions actually called for 4f in the manuals due to the shortnes of the barrels to get the most powder burn in such a short distance. Under the FAQ's it says if you cannot find 4f, you can run 3f, but don't go any larger. Maybe your Earl has a different diet due to the longer barrel.
Great trick about rolling out the 3f if one can't find any 4f. Where is it that you are ordering your powder from, these local gunshop owners are not helpful like they used to be before the ammo and gun craze. They are just to busy to give a *** about one guy asking for a can of powder.

TwoGunJayne · February-28-13 15:02

Where to get the powder: I got pretty well stocked up some time ago, I think I got it from Cabela's. I just checked and they don't carry 3f or 4f powder anymore, ditto for cheaperthandirt.com. A quick check says Gander Mountain has fffg and MidwayUSA has the 4f. There's also powderinc, the Goex distributor, if you wanted straight black.

One of my bottles of "Pyrodex P" 3f is inherited and likely over 25 years old. Last I checked, it fired the Earl, put a hole in a can. Cool, dry place, right?

I think the worst in a fixed barrel that using too slow of a BP in a C&B would be is a sort of "poof" noise instead of a bang and you'll find the bullet on the ground between you and the target. With a revolver and it's cylinder gap, the bullet may get stuck in the barrel. I'm talking FFg and larger, "cannon powder" is slower burning due to the larger grain size. This is how my .17 toy cannon is with 2f and even with 3f it can't dent a steel can. It's really strange how my C&B Earl with 3f really throws a can very well, while a .22 mag mini simply blasts straight through. You wouldn't think it'd have less of a visible effect. Since I pretty much just shoot cans with the Earl, I've always used the 3f.

If you wanted "The One True Black," check out powderinc.com, they have all speeds Fg-FFFFg. I haven't bought from them personally as I run BP substitutes, not straight black.

I think I'll chrono 5 shots with fffg and 5 slightly crushed-up just to show how much (or little) difference there is once you have a 4" barrel. I'm not going to dust it. I know better than to "hot rod," if I go too far, the fragging caps will be my #1 warning sign.

Too bad I don't have the mini companions to test side-by-side. Oh well, that's another day.

RiverRat9533 · February-28-13 17:02

My Companion has been a great little gun for years, and when I used to live in Northern Virginia it would ride long in a pocket when the wife and I would venture into DC. Back in those days the only people allowed to own or carry firearms in the District of Columbia were Police. there was always at least one shooting a night reported on the news, crazy numbers for a city that no one can own a firearm. I figured the little Companion was something I was willing to risk the punishment over if there didn't happen to be a nice friendly LEO standing next to me and my wife when someone in the non gun owning city started shooting at us.
Back then I used the Freedom Arms manual as my guide. Not that I am condoning doing such a thing, and for anyone reading this don't even think about it in a Super Companion, it holds more than double the powder and isn't any stronger in cylinder walls, pin and other parts. While the little Companion wouldn't be my first choice for a backup, it did fit that situation. Interestingly, after I moved south, I realized that I had left it loaded from the last trip into DC, close to a year. Changed out the caps and all four loaded cylinders went bang, though not with the same enthusiasm as with fresh powder.
I think I will await your test results with the 3f and home made 4f before I place an order online and pay hazmat fees. If you end up noticing better ignition, accuracy, velocity I might place the order, if there is little difference I may as well buy some triple seven in 3f from one of these local experts that say there is no such thing as 4f

doc_stadig · February-28-13 19:02

RiverRat
I remember, vaguely that thread you mentioned in another posting in this thread, if I remember correctly, one of the "regulars" posted a picture of his hand and the blown out cylinder, but I don't remember who it was that had posted the picture, but the graphic visual of that Super-Companion cylinder bulged with razor sharp edges covinced me better than anything I could ever explain with words. I wish that the admin folks had saved that picture and had it automatically post when anyone mentioned Super-Companion and smokeless in the same post!!!!!

Doc

RiverRat9533 · February-28-13 19:02

Doc,

Well said. It was a bit of a crazy following with even crazier so called testing techniques, add smokeless, pull the trigger, count fingers, add more smokeless and repeat. I posted on here years ago on the old forum that it didn't seem like the best idea to mess around with and was told that the manual said it was ok and the gun was plenty strong enough. F
First, the manual never said it for any NAA cap and ball, it was the freedom arms version which was basically a NAA companion. The Super Companion, and now Earl are two completely different setups, and the ffffg, although harder to find should be interesting to see compared to the more readily available 3f. ( even if the 4f is home made) the longer barrel on the Earl has me real excited for the test.
Will know shortly if I hunt up some ffffg or settle for the fffg. Oh, who am I kidding, NAA was right about the Remington 11caps, they are surely recommending the 4f for a reason

TwoGunJayne · March-01-13 11:03

I agree with what you just said, Rat. The C&B is a different frame and system all together than a .22 magnum mini. To assume that it can handle that kind of pressure has no logical basis. I was considering loading the Earl with low-pressure cowboy-action-shooting "Trail Boss" powder and needed no further research than the label on the bottle: "NOT a black powder substitute, not for use in black powder firearms. Do NOT load in a firearm designed for black powder." Oh well, there went that idea. I guess I wasn't the first to think of it. Even though the overall pressure has trouble exceeding 8,000 psi, the pressure curve itself is obviously totally different than BP.

So anyway, I didn't forget you guys. I've got my chrono, guns, coffee, and camera. TIME TO GO SHOOTING!!!

I'll update with pics and chrono info in a couple of hours.

TwoGunJayne · March-01-13 13:03

Range Report: All velocities are in feet per second, energy is in foot pounds.

Okay, first let's get a baseline.

.22 Walther Falcon/Hatsan 125 pellet rifle, 21 grain H&N Barracuda round nose pellet:
Note that this takes small game (raccoon-sized and smaller) just fine. I've never shot anything larger with it because I don't feel that it is ethical. I got 830 feet per second, then the muzzle velocity started dropping. Time to oil the mechanism. This works out to be 32 foot pounds of energy. I love this pellet rifle.

Mini Master, 4":
32 grain CCI Stinger jhp. 928, 922, 928, 996, one error. This works out to be 60 to 70 foot pounds of energy. This is supposedly one of the best .22 lr rounds out there for small guns.
45 grain Hornady Critical Defense FTX (expanding). 997, 1030, 1068, 1079, 1 error. This is 99 to 116 foot pounds of energy.
This sounds pretty respectable. This new Hornady round should be valid for coyotes and such all day, perhaps even more! The muzzle energy from a 4" barrel isn't that far off from a 3" .380 acp!

...and finally the Companion Cap and Ball Earl 4", firing the standard 30 grain NAA belted round nose bullet.
Hodgon 777 FFFg bp substitute: 694, 549, 655, 547, 1 error. I didn't fill the scoop level each time and loaded kind of in a hurry. I was excited. Anyway, this works out to 20-32 foot pounds depending on how carefully you load. A load of 777 FFFg should be able to take varmints!!!

Homemade 4f, when you grind up 777, the powder becomes a lighter gray color and sticks to a paper plate. With a piece of paper folded in a v-shape, tilt the plate to drop the larger chunks to one side and scrape the dust off of the plate. You could try loading with straight dust, but I chose to mix with the larger particles. I started getting errors on my chrono and had to reload a couple times to get the info. This is the information we really wanted anyway. With careful loading, the average velocity was about 860 fps plus or minus 50 fps due to inconsistent grinding and mixing. So in other words, we've got quite a bit of a performance jump! This works out to be 44 to 55 foot pounds of energy, or a bit less than DOUBLE! However, the caps were more likely to back out a touch and try to tie up the revolver than with straight 777 FFFg. Recoil was slightly more, but not bad in the slightest. It was a little louder.

I was really surprised at the huge performance boost. When carefully loaded with 777 FFFg, it's enough for critters. If I were to tote this "for real," I'd load with properly made and likely more consistent 4f. Surprisingly large animals have been taken with 30-60 foot pounds of energy. Shot placement is key.

...and as the Box o' Truth guy would say: Shooting stuff is fun.

doc_stadig · March-01-13 13:03

Twogun,
Thanks for the eval, I feel that you've taken the BP Earl from a "toy" to a respectable handgun. With 4f, I really think you could increase the stats even further. True black ignites at much lower temperatures from what I've been led to believe and that should result in more complete explosion.

Doc

TwoGunJayne · March-01-13 13:03

Thanks, Doc!

Admins, I think we have another FAQ here. Anyone else with other questions or thoughts? Be right back, I'm going to step out and shoot the BP Earl some more!

RogueTS1 · March-01-13 13:03

Well done and thorough report TwoGun. Thank you for the time spent.

TwoGunJayne · March-01-13 13:03

You're welcome, it was my pleasure, guys.

RiverRat9533 · March-01-13 16:03

TwoGunJayne,
Great review, thanks for taking the time to do the testing. Looks like NAA might just have been onto something when they recommended the ffffg in the manuals. I was expecting a difference, but was a bit surprised to see how much of a difference. I think you are right that running straight 777 in 4f would give more consistent numbers, but your little trick of homemade was excellent for testing purposes. I imagine that in the Earl with straight 4f, running consistent mid 800's to and even 900 depending on the load, a scoop with a little room to the lip, or even with the lip without ramrodding the crap out of it, would be realistically achievable. All that without risking being nicknamed "Lefty" by hotrodding the Earl past the intended safe limits.
No doubt, the new four inch barrel takes the Companion series into respectable performance levels. Gotta gotta gotta get one of these on order!
As a side note, it looks like in the pictures that the frame is slightly different than the Super Companion. Is the beefed up look to the frame because of rear sights?
Did you try pinching the caps a little before putting them on the nipples? I found this to be very useful when I wasn't following the Freedom Arms manual and wasn't putting something not recommended by NAA in my Companion.

Actually, last weekend pinching the caps worked very well keeping them seated.

Time for me to either start arguing with the local shops again or suck it up and order 777 ffffg online.

I have a Beeman RX, originally with a .20 barrel that would go super sonic. Useless as a varmint gun because it would ice pick the heck out of something and it would wander off not knowing it was dead. Ordered a .22 barrel, loaded heavy's and it worked much better, up to raccoon size like yours. Love the heck out of it, my only complaint is those gas pistons make for one heavy air gun, more like magnum hunting rifle. In all the years of owning it, I have only been let down by it one time. A rabid possum came staggering into the yard and I went to dispatch to poor creature. It was at that zombie straight line sideways walk stage, and when I shot it, it was so far gone that it wouldn't drop. Even with multiple shots in the skull, it's rotted brain was only functioning on that small reptilian part, and it just kept that zombie lope. Finally had to take a pole, length of rope, and make one of those gator snagging devices. The pole kept me at a safe distance from possible contamination and I learned that even zombie possum do require air.

RiverRat9533 · March-01-13 17:03

NAA is out of stock on the Earl and all other variants of the Companion according to the website.

TwoGunJayne · March-04-13 11:03

Rat: I've tried pinching the caps to use rifle percussion on the C&B Earl, but was very unhappy. Remington pistol caps or nothing, it seems.

I hear ya on those rabid zombie bullet-sponge critters. They don't seem to know how hard they were just hit and go about whatever irrational thing they were doing. A normal animal would run away after a bunch of yelling and getting hit with a few thrown objects, particularly after loud bangs start happening. I had a close call with a rabid dog a couple years back that pretty much mirrors your story. It decided to keep me captive in my own home when I was trying to go to work one morning. After about an hour and a half, I tried yelling, rocks, empty bottles, pellet rifle, etc... I had to go get a bigger shooter... twice. I thought I had missed all of those times. Nope. It was almost like out of a horror movie or something. I'd rather not find out first hand what rabies treatment feels like, as I've heard enough about it from first hand recipients.

I agree with you 100% on supersonic pellet rifles and their lack of accuracy. There's just something about a skirted pellet trying to break the sound barrier that ruins it past 10 feet. Heavier pellets are also more consistent in velocity over the chronograph, and even seem to make the mechanism quieter. The only problem with heavies is trying to adjust for drop over distance. There is "too much of a good thing" with springer rifles and heavy pellets, though. The amount of energy isn't the same as you'd think it would be for a heavy versus light out of a springer as they don't accelerate the heaviest of the heavies as well as the 10-25 grain pellets. You need an air-pneumatic to push superheavies like Eun Jin or Skenco Big Boy Seniors.

I imagine the same would hold true for the C&B Companions and Earls if you somehow could have a heavier cylindrical non-hollow-base bullet, as they are barrel-limited as the springers are acceleration distance limited. Springers and Companions seems very closely related when you look at the numbers. I saw cylindricals for pellet rifles and thought of the same concept for the Companion/Earl, but then realized after some research and experimentation that it was probably just too heavy and you'd lose overall energy.

Even so, I'm going to try to take some critters now with the C&B Earl, the numbers support that it should be ethical and experimentation would likely show that it is effective.

TwoGunJayne · March-05-13 16:03

I'm back and this time... WITH HOLLOWPOINTS!

I had what some call a "moment of clarity." I was at my loading bench, fiddling with the C&B Earl. I had just shot my pellet rifle, placing the tin of pellets next to the Earl. Realizing that they were 1/3rd lighter than the standard bullet and pure soft lead, I decided to try loading those pellets into the Earl as regular bullets, "backwards" as a hollowpoint and filling the cavity with a glob of T&C Bore Butter as usual. Good stuff, that Bore Butter... every BP shooter should know about it. It makes cleaning the barrel take 3 seconds with one pass of a Hoppe's Bore Snake. Those things are awesome, too.

Anyway, I set up the chrono and fired my shots. At first, I thought the numbers were the same as before but after inspection and calculations they were slightly higher....

H&N Barracuda 21 grain pellet, regular load of FFFg 777 powder: The muzzle energy is the same as the 30 grain NAA bullets! I didn't expect that, either. I also suspect that they'll get very close to supersonic when stoked with a proper load of 4f black. I'm going to try some lighter weight pellets tomorrow along with some accuracy tests. I imagine it won't make much difference at 10 feet. If they hit a critter "hollowpoint first," overpenetration simply couldn't happen.

So if the world falls apart and you run out of NAA bullets for your Companion, try some very heavy .22 pellet rifle pellets!

Side note: I got a dillo near the garden where I had set up the chrono, those guys can do a lot of damage to your hard work. They are an invasive species and a pest. The C&B Earl works, by the way. Confirmed: NOT A TOY! How lucky can you get?

Any other thoughts or suggestions for me to try and chrono?

RiverRat9533 · March-05-13 20:03

Always considered all the companions more than toys, especially when loaded correctly.

Will be interested if the pellets fly true being loaded backwards, aerodynamically I would think they would try to flip some point during mid flight

Spoke with NAA, looks like the companion series including the Earl will be available April.

leafhopper · March-06-13 00:03

I have the Super Companion (.22 mag) and I have used airgun pellets with just the cap and no powder. Works great for target practice at 10 to 15 feet. Pokes a hole in paper just fine.

I'll have to try grinding 3f and see if I can get it to some consistancy in grain size. Sounds like a good plan, anyway. 4f is really hard to get, even on-line...everyone is out or not even listing it anymore.

Dave

TwoGunJayne · March-06-13 08:03

Grinding to make 4f is surprisingly easy, just use a paper plate and a flat-bottomed glass bowl, the light gray stuff that sticks to the plate is what you want. The larger grains will fall to the side while the dust can be harvested with a piece of paper. Just a few taps on the plate causes the larger grains to move in a big way. Work in small quantities, of course. A mortar and pestle would also work as well.

I think that since I filled the "hollowpoint" with bore butter and the pellets are roundnose instead of flat point, the pellets are less likely to flip. I shot about a 2" group in the dirt bank at 10 feet through the chrono, but I wasn't really aiming. I'll try again this afternoon with a paper target to check for keyholing. Also, the butter probably increased the weight to maybe 23-25 grains. Grease filled hollowpoints expand quicker than empty onees, by the way. In theory, it sounds like just the ticket for short range varmint blasting with proper shot placement. I'm going to start smearing around the sides of the skirt with the butter as well.

For now, we know it takes critters at least! The dillo ran about 15 feet before lying down. The shot was center of mass, quartering away.

If you are on the fence on whether or not to get a C&B Earl, just get one! They are a whole lot of fun.

RiverRat9533 · March-06-13 11:03

Called NAA, they expect to have the Earls back in stock beginning of April, just in time to turn the purchase into a birthday present. Gotta love when timing works out. Everyone is sold out of the triple seven in 3f here, so it gives me time to make my weekly calls and snatch some up in time.

I have a bunch of different pellets for the beeman rx, many are heavy weights due to the power that gas ram creates. Never tried them in my companion due to hearing the skirts would come apart. I need to go check straightshooters and see if they carry .22 for the pnuematics, those would be solid.
JSB Exact Monster are 25 grain, but looks like it has a small skirt. Might order a tin

TwoGunJayne · March-06-13 11:03

I was worried about the skirts blowing apart, as well.

I just looked up the JSB pellets you mention. The weight is about right, those should work since the Barracudas did. Check this JSB tin out:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/JSB_Match_Diabolo_Test_Sampler_22_Cal_Round_Nose_Pointed_4_Pellet_Types_240ct/959
It's a 4-pellet selection in one tin.

The H&N was a touch loose in the cylinder, they slipped in with finger pressure. I hit them with the loading press anway. I was glad I did, as they seated quite a bit further into the cylinder. I imagine this also helped "crimp" the skirt a bit wider.

The H&N Barracuda was originally designed for the new super power springers because at the time they were squashing and ripping the skirts of the older pellet types. A pneumatic has a mostly constant acceleration for the entire length of the barrel, while a springer does most of the acceleration in a tiny bit of the barrel. Strong springers need stronger pellets as a result. Due to the acceleration properties, pneumatics can handle the heavier pellets well, upwards of 30 grains while a strong springer just loses energy and they are less effective. Pneumatics can handle the heaviest of the heavy: A solid cylindrical pellet. The Air Force Airguns "Condor" 3,000 psi model can be used for hog hunting with them. I wouldn't try that with just any .22 pellet gun. The jury is still out whether or not the pressure curve of a C&B Earl is like the springer (all at once) or the pneumatic (gently all the way down the barrel.)

I "loaded them backwards" so the gun gasses don't get to spread the pellet skirt and to try out a "hollowpoint." If I loaded them with the skirt towards the powder, this would leave an undesired airspace. It could also permit an overload of powder as they seat fairly far down into the cylinder. Not that I'm actually suggesting to do that, of course.

Also, check this out: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Field_Target_Trophy_22_Cal_14_66_Grains_Round_Nose_500ct/913
It's "oversized" pellets, 5.55 versus 5.5 that most pellets run. I'd think they might be a bit more snug and possibly yield higher velocity due to better backpressure, coupled with the fact that they're about half the weight of the stock NAA bullet. I suspect they'd go supersonic with 4f, but then again this thread has been full of surprises and learning for me. Perhaps they aren't heavy enough to get proper ignition?

Yeah, I guess I'm a bit of a .22 fanatic. Pneumatic air, springers, and powder? It's all the same to me. They all work. It will be paper targets this afternoon, I'll side-by-side pellet loadings (which I'm starting to love) versus the official NAA bullet (which I have zero problems with.) I don't expect much difference at 10 feet, but I'm primarily checking for keyholing.

Don't forget that you can grind up the super-common 2F rifle powder just as well, since you may be grinding anyway if you can't score some 4f. I had problems even finding the 3F.
-----------------
Update: No shooting this afternoon. There was some construction and it just didn't happen. I was sad. Tomorrow is another day. On the plus side Rat gave me the suggestion of trying to shoot #4 buckshot and unintentionally gave me the idea of shooting birdshot loads through the C&B Earl. This will get me through the week, gentlemen. I am happy. Unfortunately, it's too cold for snake hunting just yet.

RiverRat9533 · March-06-13 19:03

Yep, I am the bad influence here

doc_stadig · March-07-13 11:03

Several years ago there was a company named Forster that manufactured a tool that was called Tap-O-Cap, they've stopped manufacturing the tool, and apparently are not making any plans to manufacture again, http://forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/files/Tap-O-Cap_TC1000-001.pdf here is the manual for it, keep your eyes peeled for one of them, it uses roll caps, like the ones we put into our cap guns, back before we were too stupid to realize that we would be harmed by killing the bad guys with our cap guns, as it's ignition, I bought one several years ago, and I've found that if you put 2 caps into the cap made with scrap strips of aluminum cans. They work great in the mini's I've got. Do a search on Tap-O-Cap, and you can learn more about the tool. If you are careful with the can you can get probably 2-400 caps from a single soda can, the biggest time spent with making them is getting the little cutout caps to stay inside the aluminum caps. They actually work just as good, at least on my mini's as the recommended Remington caps.
Every once in a while, I'll try to find another for sale, but as yet, I've not been able to find one. It seems that the black powder community has decided that total dependence on one part of the industry is okay. I guess that's the same reason I've re-associated myself to my flintlock rifles, independence was always a thought in my life since I first read the Declaration of Independence back in US history in high school.

Doc

TwoGunJayne · March-07-13 11:03

Love the post, Doc. I'd heard about the Tap-o-cap before, but could never find one of the darn things to buy last time I looked. I guess I could try making one on a lathe, but could never find blueprints for the thing. It's definitely on-topic for this thread.

Also: I've found my box of #4 buck and will be trying that as projectiles this afternoon, weather permitting along with a paper test of the pellet loads. I wonder if the cylinder can take two over the powder? I was going to try just a single ball over regular 3F first, to be cautious with chamber pressure.

Good times, I've actually very excited about this. Also, thanks everyone for the contributions to this thread so far. This looks like one of those "good ones." Just need to order a bottle of #12 shot now...

Maybe NAA needs to make a flintlock mini? That'd be awesome!

RiverRat9533 · March-07-13 11:03

Doc,
No doubt they had to stop manufacturing when the American public became so stupid that matches needed instructions and coffee needed hot warning signs.
Awesome tool, just to many stupid people to stay in business making it, lol

TwoGunJayne · March-07-13 16:03

As posted in the other thread specifically about #4 buck out of a NAA Companion, here's the scoop for consistency and completeness.

Hornady #4 buckshot roundball over a regular load of Update:
Raw data #4 buck (approx 20 grains), regular load of hodgdon 777 3f powder: 877, 868, 848, 889, 828 Nice! Very consistent, compared to pellet rifle pellets!

I'm still trying to find my grain scale so I can measure how much sliced off. We're still looking at 30-35 foot pounds of energy. Using proper 4f might almost double this. I'm blown away! It's a small game load from a cheap jug of #4 buck and not-so-hard-to-find 3f!

Now to just find a tap-o-cap and I'll be one step closer to awesome!

--------------
Update: No keyholing noticed at 10 paces with H&N 20gr Barracuda pellets and 777 3f. Remember to use the loading press on them.
Update2: 1.2-1.8 grains of lead is lost when you stuff a #4 buck pellet into the cylinder. We're still looking at 29-34 fpe. This loading should kick butt with 4f, it may be close to supersonic. I'll post if I can score some 4f.

RiverRat9533 · March-07-13 17:03

Really impressed with those numbers. Gotta get me some #4 Buck, a person could shoot for years on that! Everywhere around here is still sold out on just about everything for shooting, including reloading supplies. I can't catch a break. Was told ,maybe next week for the 777.

TwoGunJayne, you already hit awesome, you have the item needed to shoot. All I have is habit and no fix

TwoGunJayne · March-08-13 08:03

Hey, thanks very much! I'm just glad to be here talking to good people who really seem to know some stuff. Thanks for being really cool. I appreciate it!

It's like almost every day, I get a little surprise of something neat that I didn't know about. This whole thread is a prime example.

Anyway, by my rough count, There are about 340 pellets in a pound of #4 buck. This means my 5# hornady box contains 1700 shots. This means I could shoot 5 shots a day, take holidays off, and run out in about 1 year. It looks like I have my varmint blasting covered using only #4 buck and 3f powder (the only black I have at the moment.) This is a big relief since I can't find .22 lr for love, nor money. Ever since I took that armadillo, I realized just how much weight and powder I'm over-using with a 12 gauge for pest control. I've decided now that it's pellet rifle and C&B Earl for those tasks. I'll save the 12 for medium and large game. A 1 ounce lee slug per shot is a whole lot of lead and quickly!

I've got the powder, I'm just going to run out of caps at this rate! If anybody finds a source for 4f powder or Remington #11 caps, please post a link in the Buy/Sell NAA forum so we can stock up. I found some Companions and posted a link there. We (the NAA forum readers) had them all bought out in just a couple of hours. Ballistic products #4 buck yesterday, but is currently out at time of posting. Since these sources are changing so fast, Buy/Sell would be a better place for those threads and we'll just delete them once the source runs dry.
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Side note: You should get about 4,000 shots from a pound of black out of a Companion and about 2,000 in a Super or Earl.
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Has anyone heard of "7F" powder? "Swiss Null B" is twice as fast as 2f powder, according to this article. I thought it was a great read.
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/priming-powder-timing.php
This may or may not have applications in the Companion and I'm trying to order some as we speak. Any thoughts? Someone tell me it's a bad idea.

RiverRat9533 · March-08-13 20:03

Nice to know that I can expect 2000 shots out of a pound of BP when the Earl finally comes available again. The #4 buck seems the way to go compared to the ridiculous price of the NAA bullets. I did order some more from NAA, because they have them and I can't get the shot right now. All this talk has me in the mood to shoot the Companion over the weekend!
At this point there is no rush, I have a month to find the #4 buck and 777 fffg, until then I am going to have some fun with the Companion.

RiverRat9533 · March-10-13 17:03

Was reading on the net that some kid who ordered a Super Companion online and also did some crazy things with said pea shooter, came up with a way to make snake shot round by emptying capsule medicine and filling with shot. Probably an expensive way to go about it, but darn innovative

TwoGunJayne · March-11-13 11:03

I was thinking about a regular notebook paper hole puncher to make base wads for a snakeshot load for the Companions. Those paper dots are about .22 or so. I hadn't come up with much for a shotcup yet. A gelcap sounds interesting. I was considering a folded paper sleeve from a plastic drinking straw for the shot load. It would need a base wad for sure or the powder would just blow through, and most likely an overshot card. The humble notebook paper punch might help. I have a "single punch" and a "high capacity 3-ring" puncher. That's many wads in a one throw, rapid fire-style. A manilla folder might be just the ticket for hundreds or thousands of paper wads.

I have to find the shot first.

As I can't find anywhere that has #12 shot by the pound, I found a seller that sells 12 gauge #12 shot. They were sold out at the moment, but 25 of those would equal a whole lot of snake loads. They still had the .410 5/8oz #12, but that really isn't so much lead by comparison.

After all, this wouldn't be a complete "Earl cap and ball info" thread without a snakeshot load, right?

We could load with something like "Grape Nuts" hard dry cereal or "Nerds" tiny hard candy beads for insect hunting. Heh.

Unfortunately, the chamber doesn't look like it has the space for a double-ball load. Shucks, oh well.