BW Mag vs. BW LR - how much difference for SD?

[pete_on_the_coast]

OK, guys with experience, please chime in:

How much "better"  for self defense carry is a BW .22WMR vs. a BW with .22 LR?  I know that I can buy both cylinders, but at this stage I am interested in one or the other.

With such a short barrel, is there a .LR cartridge (CCI stinger, for example) that makes the difference in energy/stopping power negligible? Or, even with a standard LR cartridge, is the difference all that great?

I ask this in part because while I've found some .22 LR locally in recent months, I have found ZERO .22 WMR.  I really don't want to buy a carry gun that I can't find ammo for.  Other factors are: noise and recoil created by the magnum, wear and tear on the gun itself, etc.

Opinions much appreciated.

[OV-1D]

  My opinion which is what it is L.R. is just as good as the other . Stopping power ...........well it's more like "HECK HE'S GOT A GUN" that changes things type of idea . Hollow points might be a tad better for making a bigger hole but still as for actual stopping power it's going to be physiological manly , sure it's going to hurt but placement at close range is going to be the game changer . Shoot cheaply I always say and of course responsibly , make them count , ha ha . Heavy leathers on perk use Mag's . 

[RogueTS1]

For SD I say go with the Mags. Hornady Critical Defense. Use the LR for practice.

[cfsharry]

If you look at the numbers from a two inch barrel, velocity/muzzle energy, you pick up about 12% in the magnum over the 40 gr., high velocity .22 LR. 
For that 12% you get way more noise, recoil and cost. Do I think the magnum is worth it? I do not.
Others here will disagree. I think they like recoil and noise.

[adp3]

If you are buying the BW to shoot a bunch get it in .22LR or .22LR/.22Mag.  If you are buying it for carry and occasional practice stick with the .22 magnum.  Check out ammoseek.com for .22 Magnum ammo.  The prices are not down to pre-panic levels but the site provides a list of dealers with ammo in stock and displays box and per round prices. 

Best Regards,
ADP3

[Jim1392]

As far as ammo is concerned. PSA has had Gold Dots. Academy has had Choot EMS 22 WMR with free shipping on and off all week. So they are out there online. In the stores not so much. Also I have seen only about a $20.00 difference in the price of the BW from the plain Magnum and Magnum with 22LR converstion. I think it's a $20.00 well spent.

[Dinadan]

I have tried shooting some magnum and LR ammo into things like books and boards. Out of a Mini a CCI Maximag or Gold Dot will penetrate a bit further than a CCI Velocitor or Minimag. Based on my experience I would say that you are unlikely to get much if any expansion out of any round unless you do shoot something really hard like a book at almost point blank range. So does the extra bit of penetration matter? It could in some scenarios.

For myself, sometimes I load Mags, sometimes LR. In the past couple of years I have tended to carry LR more and Mags less. I should mention that I carry shorter barreled Minis, Sidewinder and so forth, so I would get even less boost out of mags than you will out of a Black Widow.

Like OV-ID implies, If you stop an attacker with a Mini, it will be due to disabling him with bullet placement or just scaring him; .22 mags are not going to knock him backwards.

Cfsharry makes good points about the 12% added velocity of mags versus flash and bang. I petty much agree with his assessment of the relative merits of LR versus Mags even though I still carry Mags at times. Note the two tables from NAA's ballistics page. Two of my favorite ammos out of a Black Widow.

[grayelky]

I will concede the difference in performance between a LR and magnum from a sub 2" barrel is not much. I am quite willing to bet a large sum of money, that should you ever be faced with a situation where your life is threatened, you will wishing you had the magnum stead of the LR. The 12% will seem like a whole lot more then than it does now. It would probably very easy to sell you a cheap $150 Chinese 12 ga for $1000. Should you live through the ordeal, you will realize a 25 ounce 1911 is really not that heavy.

[RogueTS1]

I will concede the difference in performance between a LR and magnum from a sub 2" barrel is not much. I am quite willing to bet a large sum of money, that should you ever be faced with a situation where your life is threatened, you will wishing you had the magnum stead of the LR. The 12% will seem like a whole lot more then than it does now. It would probably very easy to sell you a cheap $150 Chinese 12 ga for $1000. Should you live through the ordeal, you will realize a 25 ounce 1911 is really not that heavy.

The old saying, "When one carries a gun, it can never be too small but when one needs to use a gun in self defense, it can never be too big" rings true. Hence we look for some sort of middle ground.

[NOTL21]

Considering most rounds will miss the target in a threat situation (read Ferguson)...the more flash and bang without ceding firearm control is probably a plus.

[Kevin55]

If I could buy a BW (not for sale in CA)  I would want both cylinders.   Twice the chances of finding ammo.
The 22mag is going to be a major noise maker.   Which could be good if the first shot misses.

If you're going to buy a larger magnum frame, why not get the magnum cylinder?
I bought the .22lr frame as only 1-1/8" barrel minis can be sold in California.

A police officer on a motorcycle board I frequent claims he has seen too many people shot with .22's and have little effect to consider one for self defense.    I'd rather have a .22lr than nothing.   He has the luxury of carrying a 9mm.

If you look at my profile, I have posts where I researched the ballistics.
22lr and 22mag are close with REALLY short barrels.
22lr ammo choice is the biggest factor.
22mag, the longer the barrel, the better performance.


This article is about the recent shootings and other police actions. 
However, is shows lots people getting shot, Tasered, or sprayed with little effect.   Interesting take on self defense.
http://www.breachbangclear.com/ferguson-idiot-cops-and-experts-who-know-nothing-at-all/?utm_content=buffer9a925&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[stripey]

I think there is a bit more than 12% difference between 22WRM and 22LR.  If you go to NAA's product pages you can access their balistic test data to find (for example)

CCI Maxi-Mag +V 30gr @ 1300 FPS (mean of test data) = 113 ft-lbs muzzle energy
CCI Stinger 32gr @ 1010 FPS (mean of test data) = 73 ft-lbs muzzle energy

The 22 mag has 30% more velocity and 55% more energy

I believe the newest Speer GD ammo is even a tiny bit better than the CCI+V 40gr @ 1150 fps: 117 ft-lbs

I'd carry the Gold Dots

[theysayimnotme]

If I could buy a BW (not for sale in CA)  I would want both cylinders.   Twice the chances of finding ammo.
The 22mag is going to be a major noise maker.   Which could be good if the first shot misses.

If you're going to buy a larger magnum frame, why not get the magnum cylinder?
I bought the .22lr frame as only 1-1/8" barrel minis can be sold in California.

A police officer on a motorcycle board I frequent claims he has seen too many people shot with .22's and have little effect to consider one for self defense.    I'd rather have a .22lr than nothing.   He has the luxury of carrying a 9mm.

If you look at my profile, I have posts where I researched the ballistics.
22lr and 22mag are close with REALLY short barrels.
22lr ammo choice is the biggest factor.
22mag, the longer the barrel, the better performance.


This article is about the recent shootings and other police actions. 
However, is shows lots people getting shot, Tasered, or sprayed with little effect.   Interesting take on self defense.
http://www.breachbangclear.com/ferguson-idiot-cops-and-experts-who-know-nothing-at-all/?utm_content=buffer9a925&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

You can buy a Black Widow in the DPRK IF you can find a current owner willing to sell. I bought mine that way on consignment. You can also buy other NAA minis that meet the single action exemption (overall length). They don't have to be on the approved list.

I don't see the purpose of using ultra light & high velocity rounds. The barrel is too short to burn most of the powder & they shed that extra velocity very quickly. I prefer heavier bullets that burn more of the powder & retain their velocity better.

[PRM]

I ask this in part because while I've found some .22 LR locally in recent months, I have found ZERO .22 WMR.

I say the OPs decision was made when he started the thread.  A BW loaded with 22LR is a sight more useful than one without bullets.

[ksblazer]

From the tests I have done the Mag will penetrate a little more. It may help against heavier clothing and such. So it is my choice for personal defense in a mini revolver. The magnums extra recoil, while a little more noticable. Dosen't seem to bother me. The magnum is much louder. Makes it seem like you have a bigger caliber than you do.

As mentioned I'd opt for the combo so you can shoot them both. Since you can't find any magnum ammo locally and don't want to order on line. It may be best to just get the LR.

Around here I have just the oposite problem. .22 is still hard to find and you overpay when you do. $5 for a box of 50rds and it's just plain plinking lead round nose stuff. Luckly I had a decent stash of .22 before the frenzy happened. .22 mag ammo has been a little easier to find and seems to stay on the store shelves for a couple of weeks. Prices have jumped up like the .22 LR has either.

I had an NAA .22 mini revolver with the 1 1/8th barrel. I just didn't care for the smaller grip and found the magnum grips fit me much better. So after that I aquired the NAA 1 5/8th combo and now use it for concealed carry. Just picked up a .22 mag Pug. So the 1 5/8th combo may be getting less carry time, when I get a holster for the Pug.

[bleak_window]

Magnums by a wide margin.  They are just more destructive in real-world testing.  Everyone at a recent shoot was impressed when my BW blew apart the "indestructible" target all the centerfire shooters were using.

[vepr223]

My BW magnum gets light primer strikes with 2 types of Winchester ammo. Anyone else have one that's ammo sensitive?

[boots]

I carry a BW every day and it is loaded with Hornday CD.  I will take every bit of  extra energy I can get. For SD the cost of 22mag is not an issue. In barrel lengths less than 2" the difference does become less.