.22 Magnum VS 380 ACP

[louiethelump]

When the 380 was being pushed a few (probably more than a few now...) years ago, they made the comparison that the 380 with the best and fastest ammo was "almost equal" to round nose lead 38 special ammo (and no one was still using that) fired from a 2" snub in "stopping power" based on wound size and penetration.  (I think it was Skeeter Skelton who wrote the article comparing a 4" barrel 380 Walther PP with the current ammo to a S&W model 60 snubnose 38)

   

   Nothing new here.

   

   You cannot really compare a 40 grain 22 bullet to a 90 grain 35 cal bullet any more than you can compare that 90 grain 35 cal bullet to a 158 grain 35 cal bullet for penetration, unless you take that 40 grain 22 bullet up to rifle velocity.

   

   The question (to me anyway) is not if the 22 mag is comparable to a 380; but if it is "enough" for its intended purpose.  Some of us forget what the NAA mini gun is for.  I know this happens when I see people wanting "speed loaders" and a fast reload out of the mini revolver.  The 22 cal mini is intended as a last ditch weapon for close range and to be somewhat better than a pocket knife or a set of keys, with maximum portability so you have it with you.  If you have the room or the ability, take the 380.  If you have a little more space take the 38 or 357 snub, and if you have lots of room, take the 9mm or 45 auto or a full size combat revolver and reloads.

   

   Just opinion from the perspective of what I see as common sense.

[bud]

Sounds like good advice.

[bflying]

The last time I shot my Jello Snack Paks, both the .22 and the .380 Auto penetrated all the way, so pretty sure I'm good to go either way.  Gelatin penetration test complete.

[gadget]

Louie, that's the BEST argument I have ever seen to stop the caliber wars (not going to happen). It will make me much more comfortable with my future gun purchases. Thanks.

[RogueTS1]

Louie states it well. Take your primary as your fighting gun. Take your NAA as your "oh sh#*" gun when bad guy takes you by surprise and asks for your wallet. You take out your "wallet" and give him a bit of its contents right in the face or center mass.

[lohman446]

One caveat Rogue - your primary concealed gun is the "oh crap" gun.  These (even our beloved .45s and .357s) are not GOOD fighting weapons.  They are what we settle for because carrying a 12 gauge is frowned on and inconvenient.

[bflying]

The Judge would be a slightly more convenient way to carry a scatter gun than a 12 ga., barely.  But all the talk about the takedown power of bigger guns would bring me full circle back to the mini.  Even for my .380 (and even more so for larger), I have to plan my attire around and plan on a certain level of discomfort.  But the mini can go anywhere, always, with no advanced planning.  I'd rather have the balistics of that little .22 than the high probability of not having anything because it wouldn't have been comforable that day.

[bflying]

The Judge would be a slightly more convenient way to carry a scatter gun than a 12 ga., barely.  But all the talk about the takedown power of bigger guns would bring me full circle back to the mini.  Even for my .380 (and even more so for larger), I have to plan my attire around and plan on a certain level of discomfort.  But the mini can go anywhere, always, with no advanced planning.  I'd rather have the balistics of that little .22 than the high probability of not having anything because it wouldn't have been comforable that day.

[RogueTS1]

I agree; nobody in their right mind would take a pistol to a gunfight. Usually they are going to reach for their long gun of choice.... but in the context of the statement.... the NAA is what you reach into your pocket for while claiming to be pulling out your wallet/money when your primary is not the best option because said bad guy has surprised you.

   

   I believe the saying your handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle/shotgun says it well.

[redhawk4]

Maybe it's because I'm 6' 4" so my jeans pockets are bigger or something, but I pocket carry my Guardian 380 everyday and never experience any discomfort, if  I need to check it's there, I have to check with my hand, I honestly can't tell if it's in my pocket or not. The only time I go smaller is my Beretta 950 or my BT when I wear a suit, the Guardian is a little heavy and moves around too much with looser and light a weight pants compared to jeans.

[lazareth_minnelli]

What you decide to carry for SD is a very personal choice. Whatever feels comfortable and adequate to YOU is what you should go with imo.

   

   I carry my LCP in the same right front pocket I used to carry my NAA mini mag. Fits just fine, had no problems with the transition with weight and size. Works for me.

   

   I chose to go with 7 rounds of semi-auto 380 vs. 5 rounds of single shot 22mag. Carried my 22mag for many years. I still like it, usually carry it while doing yard work. My 2cents.

[chopprs]

Lazareth, your opinion is actually what I teach people!

   Nothing is more prudent in self defense than being familiar and comfortable with what you put in your hand, how you put it there and where you pull it from. The most common question I get is, "What is the best gun for me to buy for self defense?"

   I hate this question as it is usually a long and unanswered discussion.....

   An inexperienced shooter really has to spend the time and find out what they feel is an adequate caliber as compared to a comfortable carry. I have been carrying for what seems to be a thousand years and if I had a nickel for every time that I told myself that I have finally found the perfect carry gun I would have .....well, maybe twenty bucks at least! LOL

[lazareth_minnelli]

Your words ring true. So many choices for SD out there. That can make choosing one quite tough for the indecisive (and the decisive too really). haha

[chopprs]

.....the answer is to buy one of each!

[blitzkrieger]

Recently purchaced a Beretta 85 .380 for carry outside the home. Though it is a bit large for carry, I still have no problem keeping it concealed. It feels most comfortable in my hand and I am very proficient with it. At home I always have my NAA .22lr on me. Sometimes out in public I have both.

   Many folks downplay the .380 as an adequate sd round but many of those same folks also laugh at the thought of a .22 for sd. But as the old saying goes, something is better than nothing and I am completely comfortable with the something I have.

[hoppycop]

I hope you folks don't mind a newbie's .02 throw in here.  All of you have posted very accurate and valid thoughts on the question "What to carry for a good SD weapon?" The most important ingredient in being successful with whatever you carry is practice.  One additional factor I have brought into the consideration process in the "pocket carry" topic is revolver v/s auto loader...  If you carry a pocket pistol without a pocket holster, then consider how much pocket lint could factor into the operation of your SD pistol.  For this reason I personally choose to carry a revolver, and the use of a pocket holster to help keep unwanted debris out of the action. I'm just offering food for thought. As to the question of .22 mag v/s .380 ACP...  To me, stopping power equates to two thing: 1st - shot placement; and 2nd - projectile penetration.  Considering the whole topic here, I lean toward the .22 magnum with the heaviest hollow point ammo I can find.  Thanks folks!

[lohman446]

Lazereth you have a good point.  I would rather see an attacker unfamiliar with a gun attacking me than one familiar with and practiced in using a wooden stick (or knife, or gun).  

   

   One of the people I practiced with kenpo in a class in self defense I helped with a couple times "proved" that a gun was not enough with new students by allowing them to have the gun and proving they could be easily disarmed.  I asked once or twice if I could have the gun for the demonstration and he declined...    

   

   If I am going to be attacked the person untrained and unfamiliar with a gun is not as dangerous as an opponent who is trained and familiar.  In fact he might be helping me out by bringing a gun I might ultimately use in the fight.

[lazareth_minnelli]

Anyone not carrying their pocket pistol in a holster, be it revolver or semi-auto, would need to rethink that anyway. Good point but I think its pretty common practice to have the pistol holstered, no matter the carry style or the type of pistol.

   

   My LCP stays clean and protected using my Desantis Nemesis pocket holster. No problems.

   

   Any unholstered pistol in the pocket would be more susceptible to debris/damage which could cause a malfunction at that critical time of need.

   Agreed, a semi-auto might be a little more prone to a jam if the slide were covered in crud. That said, a revolver also has moving parts that could become clogged/damaged, causing the cylinder to freeze up when trying to cycle. Neither are immune.

   

   And let's not forget accidental discharge. Without a holster that possibility becomes a real danger. Not a safe practice.

   

   A good inspection/cleaning/lubricating routine should also be adhered to with whatever the weapon of choice may be. I do it because my life, the lives of my family, friends, and even innocent people I don't know may depend on it someday...

[lazareth_minnelli]

Lohman446 you posted that while I was typing. haha I completely agree with your assessment.

[heyjoe]

Lohman is correct. i have done that exercize numerous times over the years and it still holds. if you have a gun pointed at me within arms reach, i can deflect your arm before you can pull the trigger thereby missing me. the next step after deflection is to take it away from you.

[lohman446]

When we did the exercise the next step was breaking the shoulder, wrist, or nose depending on direction of deflection.  In hindsight though many of the people I practiced with were very violent people that just hid it well.

[heyjoe]

im not a violent person. i would much rather avoid trouble if possible. i do know how to handle myself if i have to though.

[lazareth_minnelli]

Made me think of that scene in Napoleon Dynamite- Break the wrist and walk away. Break the wrist and walk away. hahaha

[chopprs]

.....the point is to not let anyone get that close to you Joe!  

   When in a strange place I always "try" to stay a distance from everyone. That way no one can stab me and if I see a gun I have a better chance of shooting first......

[heyjoe]

not so easy to do downstate Chopprs. there are people everywhere.

[Uncle_Lee]

I think there are some people with some VERY dirty pockets.

   

   Turn your pockets wrong side out and shake them after you leave your sand box.

   That will keep your gun clean.

[flowder]

Lol....no wonder mom wanted my pockets clean!

[2cooltoolz]

I feel pretty comfortable day to day with my Black Widow/22 Maxi Mags or Speer Gold Dots.  A bit more so with my LCP loaded with WWWB flat nose and even more so with my Kahr PM9 with Gold Dots.  Depends on attire.  I always pocket carry.

   

   I sold both my Seecamp .32s.  I'd rather have the 2" BW.

   

   But that's another thread...

[ArmedPatriot]

Woman Uses .22 Pistol to Shoot & Kill Invader  

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJte6Sic44">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJte6Sic44