You concealed carry mini fans are a unique bunch

[bearcatter]

Several have mentioned how just the sight of a gun will make many bad guys run. One problem with the minis being so small: will the bad guy believe it's a gun? Or laugh? Seriously! You may have to pop off one round just to convince him he should run. Bad guys aren't known for staying current on gun models.....

[cbl51]

Several have mentioned how just the sight of a gun will make many bad guys run. One problem with the minis being so small: will the bad guy believe it's a gun? Or laugh? Seriously! You may have to pop off one round just to convince him he should run. Bad guys aren't known for staying current on gun models.....

So far, that's exactly what has happened two out of three times in the past thirty plus years I've carried a mini. One guy got instant religion. religion like in frantic pleading "Oh God man, I was just messin wit ya, I swear to God I was just messin wit ya." as he dropped the Buck knife he'd been brandishing a moment before. The other guy never swore anything, just screamed the Spanish word for extrement and ran out the restroom so fast he collided with his buddy standing lookout in the doorway. I guess he didn't want my truck as bd as he thought.

The third guy was at night trying to stalk my campsite in a remote spot, so I fired a warning shot. Man, you wouldn't believe the muzzle blast and noise on a nice quiet night in the woods.

It seems as soon as a gun is present, they leave quickly. That's fine with me, I don't want arrest anyone and am under no illusion of cleaning up the world. I just want to be left alone. A mini works well for that. And I think that's always been the draw with the derringer type of pocket gun. It kins of sends a message of "Yeah, you can get me, but you're going to die doing it." Most street punks won't have the guts to stick to it when you give them the option of running away or get shot. No lawyers fees that way either for you. No death, no grand jury.

Can you imagine if George Zimmerman had sued a mini? Instead of the 9mm that blew right up though Travon Martin's body and campout the top, he'd have had a serious bullet wound and muzzle blast burn where Zimmerman had shoved it against him as a 'get off me move'.  Martin may well have survived with some good emergency surgery, and there would never have been a trail and riots and lawyers fees for Zimmerman that he'll never live long enough to pay off.

There could be a lot said for using too much gun.

[JRobyn]

That's probably the best thing about this forum.  The testosterone-fueled debates don't apply when everyone is carrying a tiny .22.

A lot of us are so old that testosterone is a distant memory.

I'm getting my "T" with a patch now!

[SteveZ-FL]

Several have mentioned how just the sight of a gun will make many bad guys run. One problem with the minis being so small: will the bad guy believe it's a gun? Or laugh? Seriously! You may have to pop off one round just to convince him he should run. Bad guys aren't known for staying current on gun models.....

Doesn't matter what the BG believes.  The goal is self defense.  If the BG decides to turn tail at the sight of the handgun, the aggression is over and self defense has been accomplished.  If the BG continues the aggression despite the handgun being drawn, forcing the handgun owner to fire directly at the BG, that firing hopefully  should end the aggression and self defense has been accomplished. 

The "warning shot" - personally, I don't believe in it.  That "shot in the air" doesn't evaporate and eventually lands somewhere ... in someone or something.  The shooter is responsible for all shots - hits and misses.  It doesn't matter if the shooter's goal was an intentional miss to put psychological fear into the BG; if there is any collateral damage or harm caused by the intentional miss, the shooter is liable - civil and criminal liability. 

Most urban areas have "unlawful discharge of firearm" as a crime.  Governmental "Monday morning quarterbacks" will query why the shooter thought a "warning shot" was proper and won't be impressed that the shooter thought it was a good idea to fire a round in such a manner that the shooter had no idea where the bullet would end up.

[Canoeal]

I do not believe in 'warning shots, or even warnings. If you have to pull your gun to stop a BG, pull and shoot. Just that fast, as fast as you can say 'pull and shoot'.

[Uncle_Lee]

I do not believe in 'warning shots, or even warnings. If you have to pull your gun to stop a BG, pull and shoot. Just that fast, as fast as you can say 'pull and shoot'.

That is the way Dad taught me.
If you have to pull it shoot or you may loose it.

Dad also taught me to never use anything in a fight that you wouldn't want ran up you because someday you will run up against him...
That is why I carry a minis.

[seaotter]

This doesn't involve a mini, but it does pertain to the discussion. A few years ago, I found myself in a sketchy situation where three fine young gentlemen surrounded me and asked me what I had in my pack. I started pulling things out to show them, and to hold their attention. When I pulled out the extra mag for my 380, they finally got around to noticing my right hand in my front right jeans pocket.  No threat, no warning, no problem. Their interest in me diminished, and they collectively decided that there was someplace else they needed to be. Rather quickly, evidently.

And after my heart rate returned to normal, and I ascertained that I probably wasn't going to have a heart attack just then, I made the same decision.

Kind of a boring story, because nothing actually happened. But when it comes to situations like that, I don't mind at all.

[cbl51]

I guess I'll be the sole dissenter. I don't mind a warning shot under the right circumstances. In crowded urban conditions, like a parking lot of a restaurant at night, no. Out in the middle of nowhere and I'm alone with no cavalry coming over the hill, maybe. If they, the would be bad guys seem to be wavering, I don't think there's any harm in a final persuasion to send them on thier way. With nothing but empty forest or bleak desert around, a little noise ain't going to hurt anything.

I'd rather do that than really shoot someone. Soon as you do that, there's going to be a grand jury, lawyers fees, and maybe a ruined life. If the area is safe for a warning shot, why not. Yeah, I now the 'experts' all say no, but they aren't there on the scene.  When I and the better half come back from a night time canoe paddle on the river and some dumb classic redneck has parked his car on the boat ramp, built a huge bonfire, and is so drunk he doesn't see us come in till the last minute, then brandishes the Buck sheath knife you see on the horror movies while ranting we shouldn't be sneaking up on people, and he's not afraid of anything on the river, while getting closer. One shot into the river bank mud a few yards to one side of him changed everything. It went from "I ain't afraid  of nuthin on this river" and "come on and fight me and Ill show ya" to " Holy sh-t, don't shoot me man, I didn't mean nuthin!"

Yes, I had legal cause to shoot him. He had a very large knife and was advancing on me and the better half. They cops would have been involved, I was carrying without a license because Maryland has no CCW, my life would have been screwed. But the idiot got instant enlightenment as to why it's not good to threaten people you don't know. When he sobered up and got the chance to grow up maybe he was a bit more carful in his behavior. He got to live the rest of his life, and in the years that passed maybe would look back on that night as his most stupid moment.

Sometimes a little extra warning is needed. The experts can say what they want, they weren't there.

[PaducahMichael]

Sometimes a little extra warning is needed. The experts can say what they want, they weren't there.

I read what the experts say and I try to take it to heart but I think every situation is a little different and calls for your best judgement at the time. You may be able to remember what the expert said when the time arises, but then again you may be lucky to remember which pocket you carry your gun in. I think I would do what seemed to be the most likely thing to get the bad guys on their way. I HOPE I'd never have to shoot someone but I'm pretty sure I would. Otherwise, I wouldn't carry.

[dog_soldier]

I've carried a .22 Magnum in a pocket holster since the mid 80's and the other day I was pondering the fact that I had 5 spare rounds in a nice little pouch that there's no way I'd be able to reload at more than a leisurely pace.

I need 2 or 3 more mini

[Texduk3]

I carry a mini,  therefore I am.   

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Every one laughs at mini.   Old guys,  combat vets, guys who have been in fights and lived,   punk ass kids. Then I let them fire her.  They walk away quiet.   They no longer laugh.

She is NOT the end all be all of guns. She is what she is.  A NASTY LITTLE ***!  (Girl Dog) if they wont post that.

[zburkett]

Just a few quick thoughts. (1) Small semiautomatics don't like the rimmed .22s.  If you want a tiny semiautomatic the .25 is a much more reliable choice.  They were once the standard for home defense. (2) As has been said before, "The gun with you is the best gun."  Yes, if I knew I was going into a gun fight I would not choose a mini.  I would use my cell phone and let a Deputy handle it.  (3) There are other threats out there than human.  I have been approached by both a mugger and a rabid fox.  The fox was a help of a lot scarier.  The mugger decided he didn't need the $20 he wanted once he heard the click of my knife opening.  The fox was significantly harder to dissuade.  (4) If you are stuck on a semiautomatic, for any reliable .22 semi you can get the same size in a larger caliber.  (5) I carry a mini because I really like it, it is always there and mine and me are snake head accurate at 10 feet.  (6) If you want a larger caliber, a two shot Derringer can be as big a caliber as you want.  They are not snake head accurate at ten feet.

[LHB]

I have been told that in Illinois, if you pull your CC gun, you better pull the trigger, other wise you are making an armed threat, thus assault with a deadly weapon, if the BG wants to call the police.   If I was out in the boonies like clb51 was, or where I grew up, 32 miles from the sheriffs office, I would probably fire a shot to prove that what I had was a real gun, and let the BG try to later prove that I fired a shot at him.

[cbl51]

Sometimes a little extra warning is needed. The experts can say what they want, they weren't there.

I read what the experts say and I try to take it to heart but I think every situation is a little different and calls for your best judgement at the time. You may be able to remember what the expert said when the time arises, but then again you may be lucky to remember which pocket you carry your gun in. I think I would do what seemed to be the most likely thing to get the bad guys on their way. I HOPE I'd never have to shoot someone but I'm pretty sure I would. Otherwise, I wouldn't carry.

The problem with too many of the so called experts is, they are journalists working for a publication, and sometimes have never fired a single shot in anger. They may have military credentials, but that is no guarantee that they know what they are talking about. When you spend your whole military career as a training officer or in supply, what makes them an expert on how to handle a thug on a dark night?

Like you say, Michael, they ain't there and every situation has its variables. Every time you have to do what you think you have to do.

Too many guru's with too little real world experience.

[cbl51]

I have been told that in Illinois, if you pull your CC gun, you better pull the trigger, other wise you are making an armed threat, thus assault with a deadly weapon, if the BG wants to call the police.   If I was out in the boonies like clb51 was, or where I grew up, 32 miles from the sheriffs office, I would probably fire a shot to prove that what I had was a real gun, and let the BG try to later prove that I fired a shot at him.

There's an other nail hit on the head; they tell you that the BG can call the police. I don't know what town that may be in, but I can tell you 100% that the BG trying to rob you is NOT going to call the cops if you scare him off with a gun. First off, look at the BG; he's already got a rap sheet, a repeat offender, trying an armed hold up. Okay, he's gonna tell the cops, "Hey, I was trying to rob this guy and he pulled a gun on me." Nah, ain't happening. BG's don't want ANY interaction with cops. Cops are bad news, stay away from them by all means. Bad juju! Also the BG's know that if it's a 'he said-no he said' that the cops are going to take John Q. Citizens word for it.

As a one time gang member in D.C. I can tell you that if we were chased off by a guy with a gun, there's no way we're calling the cops and bringing attention to ourselves. BG's like the dark, not lights. Especially red and blue flashing ones.

After taking the class to get our Texas carry license, I can say that almost half of what they teach is BS that some law enforcement agency bureaucrat or statistician came up with and some which can get you killed if you take it seriously. You have to be fluid and change with the situation. There are no rules on the street except one; he who pulls his gun and fires first and hits is the one that will see the sun rise in the morning. There is the true beauty of the mini; it can be palmed out of a pocket and mostly hidden in your hand and the BG doesn't even know you have a gun already in your hand. The pug and basic mini's don't even need that big a hand to conceal it.

[Ruger]

Calling 911 as soon as possible after pulling your firearm is crucial for your defense; for lots of reasons.  It is known that BGs call 911 to report a guy brandishing a firearm.  Get your call in first, report who you are, what you look like, that you have just been assaulted, describe the BG, and that you need officer assistance.  If shots are fired, do not say you have done so; that can be unfolded after you have discussed it with your attorney, never put it on the tape recording.  Request medical assistance if you or BG needs it, but refrain from saying YOU shot anyone.  But please, make that call as quickly as possible.  It will make a BIG difference.

[RogueTS1]

One can carry any of those larger guns, under a t-shirt or otherwise, but they are not going to conceal it very well. For those like me, I do not care about concealment that much. If it shows, it shows. I carry a gun whether large or small, most often both, but I do not concern myself that much about the concealing of said guns. 

[Canoeal]

In PA, if it shows, you get told about it. Not by the guy who sees it, but the officer he calls. Not from personal experience, but I was warned when I bought my BW...

[Scout24]

Canoeal- The first week I was living full time in Pennsylvania with my lovely bride, we went out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant. We had lived in New York for years, both of us working and raising four kids. I got up to find the men's room, and passed a rather portly gentleman at a table with a stainless gov't model .45 on his right hip. That was my introduction to open carry with no permit needed in Pa. I still see that once a week or so here, and I much prefer concealed carry. Nobody needs to know what I'm doing unless they NEED to know.  My understanding is that outside of the big cities here, open carry is ok...

[top dog]

After looking at all of the above posts,I am glad to see that everyone has their definite choices/opinons on the subject and all have their merit.

In response to the original question or comment about us being unique is basically the members of this forum are thinking folks who put care and  consideration into their choices.

What would be good for a person in the southwest might not be the best choice of someone in the northeast but the bottom line being that none of the decisions are made haphazardly.

                                                                                             Top Dog

[SteveZ-FL]

Canoeal- The first week I was living full time in Pennsylvania with my lovely bride, we went out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant. We had lived in New York for years, both of us working and raising four kids. I got up to find the men's room, and passed a rather portly gentleman at a table with a stainless gov't model .45 on his right hip. That was my introduction to open carry with no permit needed in Pa. I still see that once a week or so here, and I much prefer concealed carry. Nobody needs to know what I'm doing unless they NEED to know.  My understanding is that outside of the big cities here, open carry is ok...

Open carry for non-LEOs has its place, especially if the 'threat' is of the four-legged type. Other than that, I wonder whether open carry by non-LEOs is more ego-driven than anything else.

One may believe that open carry in an urban envirioment is a threat inhibitor which scares the BG from potential aggression.  It would seem to me that such open carry in urban areas is an invitation to a BG, advertising here is a firearm waiting to be stolen and that this person may have on his/her person other stuff valuable enough to be guarded. 

Darned few folk have such situational awareness as to always guard themselves in a 360° circle.  Even fewer folk are so skilled as to forcefully respond to a BG who has "gotten the drop" on them in order to neutralize the open carry firearm and steal it.  Open carry may discourage some punks, but the serious BG is now alerted to what may be a worthwhile target, if only for the sellable firearm.

Concealed carry takes the beacon off the armed non-LEO.  Also, considering the soccer-mom paranoia about firearms these days, it keeps negative attention off the person carrying.  Personally, I don't want every "flower adult/child" out there calling 911 on me when open-carrying, claiming they think I may be on my way to a school or post office.  The potential LEO response to those type of calls is not an experience I want.

The radical "gun control" people out there are nutty and their imaginations can run away with them with the slightest stimulus.  I may have the right to open carry, but is it really the smart thing to do everywhere? 

[Bj]

I like concealed carry more than open carry when around people because I like the idea that the BG has no idea who is carrying what, maybe this attitude is why I dislike gun free zones so much.

[bearcatter]

Someone who is open carrying is a target. It tells the bad guy, "Hey, I have a gun. I'm your worst problem here! Shoot me first!".

[Canoeal]

Yes, here in southeastern PA, open carry is legal, but from my experience not popular. But if you are a CCW permit holder, carrying concealed the LEOs do not want to see it printing.  That was all I was saying. Printing or showing out of concealment is a no-no. Having been in business in the same place for the last 27 years, I am a 'known quantity' where I live. In practice though if you are carrying concealed why would you want it to print? Just sayin'....
Attitudes may be different in other parts of the state.

[Scout24]

Agreed with printing- a big no-no... My favorite is the "You can see half of my holster, so it's not concealed". If I can't hide it completely, I don't carry it. That's where the Mini rules.    That said, I can appendix carry  a bit more than a Mini under a heavy Carhart t-shirt if I feel the need. Airweight 642 with a Hip Grip for instance.

SteveZ- Wholeheartedly agree with the ego-driven comment.

[RogueTS1]

In PA, if it shows, you get told about it. Not by the guy who sees it, but the officer he calls. Not from personal experience, but I was warned when I bought my BW...

Hence another reason I do not live in a Northern state. 

[billmeek]

In my opinion, not everyone who open carries is ego-fueled... there are exceptions.  I normally carry concealed and in the last year may have carried open twice or three times. I wear t-shirts tucked with a loose shirt over them for concealment.  I've left the outside shirt off when working in the yard and went to the C-store for Gatorade without putting the outside shirt on again.   

Another thought is that many here agree that producing a firearm will deter a bad-guy without having to actually fire on them.  The same could be said for open carry.  While a gang in rougher areas of the country might look upon an open carry as an opportunity, most bad-guys will look at an armed individual as dangerous and something to avoid.  Why risk their precious butt on someone that can shoot back when there are easier marks?  A large percentage of the armed population would prefer if they never had a problem or had to use their firearm for defense.  If wearing openly deters a possible crime, then it's served the purpose for them.

[WECSOG]

I see a lot of opinions from people about open carry, and most of them are just that: opinions. Most of them are uninformed opinions based on what they think may be the mindset of some person they don't know; or the reaction of some unknown bad guy.

I have carried both openly and concealed for about 35 years, and I have noticed a couple of things about open carry, at least for myself and in my area.
The first is that most people don't even notice. Part of it is because I don't stand out in the first place, part is because I'm so accustomed to carrying that I don't draw attention to it.
I've actually seen people's attention zoom in on my edc belt pouch on my other side, while completely missing the full-size pistol on my strong side! 

The other thing I've noticed is that BGs want no part of me once they see that handgun. There is a pretty serious criminal element around here, and I have been around a lot of unsavory characters. More than once I have been in a situation where the alarm bells go off that these people are not circling around and closing in because they want to exchange business cards; then they see the gun and their whole demeanor changes. They suddenly remember that they are late for an appointment elsewhere.
I actually think that casually turning so they can see my holstered weapon before they get too close is better. By seeing it before they are fully committed, it is easier for them to pretend that they meant no harm.
I really dislike the idea of pulling a gun before I'm sure I have to use it. That seems like a great way to escalate the situation instead of defusing it; not to mention the possibility of picking up a felony charge. 

[Doc Holliday]

I have around 28 or so handguns..haven't really counted recently...ranging from 22 lr to 45 acp and 45 Colt. But most of the big boys don't get carried much! I do occasionally carry my Charter Arms Bulldog Stainless in 44 Special because it is both a nice heavy caliber in a package that is somewhat light and carries easily..nice kick though! I'd like to carry my Doc Holliday Special with 3 1/2" barrel in 45 Colt...but it is HEAVY! So...I normally carry a couple of NAAs..have 5.. the original Mini with conversion cylinder, the Pug, the Black Widow, the Ranger II, and the Sidewinder. Am awaiting the Color Case Hardened 22 Mag with Faux Stag Grips..if I can get it from NAA! That will definitely be one of my new carries. I have some actual gunfight experience from my LEO days, so not just blowing wind up someones skirt! I don't feel undergunned with my NAA 22 Mags! YMMV
Doc Holliday