Niche markets

[glenn]

I don't want a 32 SW .... I want a .32 ACP ... in as close to NAA size as possible ... even if it's only a 4-banger.

If someone makes one ... I'll buy it.    If not ... then I am still allowed to Want one.

.

[Canoeal]

I was thinking more of incorporating the swing out cylinder feature into the black widow frame. maybe make it look like a full underlug revolver to keep the looms of the black widow including functional sites and a bit longer barrel with the added usability of the sidewinder loading and unloading system. maybe even improved with a bit longer ejector rod.

It is the bulge in the frame, for the crane, that would ruin the sleek look of the BW...

[Rob22]

I guess function over form for me

[pietro]

I've never really understood it, when I got out of the army I never wanted to see another m16 again in this life.

Has all the charm of a screen door.

+1 - Amen.......

.

[Rob22]

so about the ranger or sidewinder black widow hybrid with xs big dot sights. Yes I am hoping to banter this around on the forum enough that Sandy decides he must make one to satisfy the masses even if it is just me 10,000 times. 

[bill_deshivs]

.32 ACP is semi-rimmed, doesn't work well in a revolver. .25 has no rim. You'd have to go for rimmed like .32 S&W. I don't think there is a rimmed .25 for revolvers. Maybe use moon clips?

You have no idea what you are talking about. The semi-rimmed .32 acp was used in revolvers over 100 years ago.
And, the .25 acp is also semi-rimmed.

[Rob22]

so about the wolverine

[bearcatter]

.32 ACP is semi-rimmed, doesn't work well in a revolver. .25 has no rim. You'd have to go for rimmed like .32 S&W. I don't think there is a rimmed .25 for revolvers. Maybe use moon clips?

You have no idea what you are talking about. The semi-rimmed .32 acp was used in revolvers over 100 years ago.
And, the .25 acp is also semi-rimmed.

I stand corrected! I'd always understood the .25 was rimless. Did some research, and both semi-rims are only about 25 thousandths larger diameter than the case. Takes some pretty precise chamber mouths. Rimmed cartridges are .040 - .050 larger.

[Canoeal]

For all of you who want, a 32acp:
Why don't you go buy a semi auto? Oh wait, they are mostly discontinued along with the 25s. I guess no other company was making a profit on them either. If the companies that did make them, have decided they are not worth the effort, why would NAA spend all the time and effort to make one centerfire revolver in a round that doesn't sell? Go ahead buy a semi-auto...I think maybe Baretta still makes the dying breed.

[bearcatter]

I purposely picked the 32 over 380. Smaller, lighter gun with half the kick, at what I consider a small loss of terminal ballistics. Let's face it, neither caliber is going to accomplish much unless you half or completely empty it, so you might as well have the one that's more controllable.

Still half a dozen semis being produced, and thousands more that haven't died yet. I think the push for 380 is from the "bigger is better" crowd, and the hype sticks people with them who then complain about the weight and recoil.

NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model.

[SteveZ-FL]

For all of you who want, a 32acp:
Why don't you go buy a semi auto? Oh wait, they are mostly discontinued along with the 25s. I guess no other company was making a profit on them either. If the companies that did make them, have decided they are not worth the effort, why would NAA spend all the time and effort to make one centerfire revolver in a round that doesn't sell? Go ahead buy a semi-auto...I think maybe Baretta still makes the dying breed.

Kel-Tec has been and still is doing well with its P-32 pustol (still have my gen-1 model), so the lightweight, easily concealable .32ACP  still is marketable.  .25ACP may be a tougher sell despite hotter ammo, but my Baby Browning and Taurus PT-25 still get range and carry time.  I too may be part of that "dying breed," but I never have been a "slave to fashion," especially that heralded by the gun magazines.

I think NAA may have learned a lesson with the .25NAA and .32NAA calibers.  Marketing a handgun tied to specialty ammo is a more difficult sell than marketing one using a more generic caliber.  The ammo drought of a few years ago made such marketing even more difficult, and who knows if/when such a manipulated drought will occur again.  While NAA minis may be a niche market, at least the ammo can be acquired  even in "drought'" circumstances.  If NAA ever ventures further into the .25, .32 or .38 handgun markets, it's a safe bet it will probably be with handguns using "generic ammo."

[bearcatter]

I happened to remember, there's a 2006 interview with Sandy where he mentions NAA working on a .32 H&R mid-size revolver. Apparently it didn't pan out for production. You can find the interview at

https://www.chuckhawks.com/visit_sandy_chisholm.htm

The revolver is mentioned near the end, IIRC.

[bill_deshivs]

That revolver was big and it was ugly.
No one wanted it.

Keltec has made probably hundreds of thousands of the P 32, and they are still making them.
The P32 weighs less than any other semi- and probably less than the larger mini revolvers. And there are literall millions of older .32 autos out there that are being used.

[Canoeal]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

[heyjoe]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

.327 federal are 32's and there are a number of revolvers made by
Ruger mostly....sp101, gp100, lcr, single seven, and i think blackhawk. I think freedom arms makes one too.

[Canoeal]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

.327 federal are 32's and there are a number of revolvers made by
Ruger mostly....sp101, gp100, lcr, single seven, and i think blackhawk. I think freedom arms makes one too.

[Canoeal]

Again a whole different ball game in tems of size and firepower. None of those are mini sized, or shooting an obsolete cartridge. Also no one is packing a .327 FM in their pocket...

[cbl51]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

.327 federal are 32's and there are a number of revolvers made by
Ruger mostly....sp101, gp100, lcr, single seven, and i think blackhawk. I think freedom arms makes one too.

I think the lack of popularity of the .32 round in revolvers is much like the whole .380 thing over the .32acp; For the same size as a .32 revolver, you can get a .38special and a lot more load/bullet type options including shot loads. If I'm going to a Blackhawk size gun, then the .357 makes much more sense in that I can use the .38 special or .357 rounds. With the .327, you're stuck with .327.

[Dinadan]

I think the lack of popularity of the .32 round in revolvers is much like the whole .380 thing over the .32acp; For the same size as a .32 revolver, you can get a .38special and a lot more load/bullet type options including shot loads. If I'm going to a Blackhawk size gun, then the .357 makes much more sense in that I can use the .38 special or .357 rounds. With the .327, you're stuck with .327.

Actually, with the .32 H&R magnum you can also shoot .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long. I think (not certain) that with the .327 you can shoot all four .32 calibre rounds. Personally, I like plinking with .32 S&W and have never fired a magnum round of of my .32 H&R. I do shoot some Longs.


I am posting a couple of photos of five shot cylinders. The big one is .357 and the smaller one is .32. The difference in diameter is not huge, but I think it would be very noticeable in concealed carry situations.  Length wise, the .32 H&R cylinder is substantially shorter than the .357.

[linux_author]

i really like my .32ACP pistols (P32 and Tomcat) - more than accurate enough for my needs... the P32 at 8 oz is quite lightweight - my Sidewinder w/.22mag is a nice companion piece

and the ammo for each costs about the same!

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

[Canoeal]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

.327 federal are 32's and there are a number of revolvers made by
Ruger mostly....sp101, gp100, lcr, single seven, and i think blackhawk. I think freedom arms makes one too.

I think the lack of popularity of the .32 round in revolvers is much like the whole .380 thing over the .32acp; For the same size as a .32 revolver, you can get a .38special and a lot more load/bullet type options including shot loads. If I'm going to a Blackhawk size gun, then the .357 makes much more sense in that I can use the .38 special or .357 rounds. With the .327, you're stuck with .327.

Not true the same gun that shoots .327 will shoot 32 H&R mag and 32 SW ...

[heyjoe]

Again a whole different ball game in tems of size and firepower. None of those are mini sized, or shooting an obsolete cartridge. Also no one is packing a .327 FM in their pocket...

The Ruger LCR is pocket carryable in cargo pants or shorts and many people do pocket carry their ..327 LCR, at least people who post on forums say they do.

[bleak_window]

You want to talk niche markets, look at Bond Arms.  They make 2-shot hideout guns that are too big to hide and too heavy to carry.

[bill_deshivs]

Of course a .327 magnum gun can shoot .32 H&R and .32 S&W long and short!

I would say that .32 acp is far from obsolete, as there are millions of .32 pistols out there.

[bearcatter]

You want to talk niche markets, look at Bond Arms.  They make 2-shot hideout guns that are too big to hide and too heavy to carry.

They also make the BullPup 9 semi-auto pistol:

https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/bond-arms-bullpup/

[Rob22]

if only there was a 22 wmr revolver with great sights and an easy to use loading system that was lightweight and easy to pocket carry. The BW/SW hybrid with XS big dot sights!!! the NAA Wolverine

[redhawk4]

You want to talk niche markets, look at Bond Arms.  They make 2-shot hideout guns that are too big to hide and too heavy to carry.

But they are fantastic I have one primarily for novelty value, I wanted a Derringer style pistol and they are the best. However it does have its uses and is the easiest way to carry a big caliber round in a fairly compact package if you need to. It fits in the pocket or a pack very easily because it's much slimmer than a revolver and could give you a last ditch gun against a large animal if it's all you have. The 410 shotgun shells could be good against snakes and the likes. It seems people are more inclined to buy what they want than what they actually need with guns and for that matter many other things.

On calibers I like to stick the the standards with ammo sold everywhere, while people make a case for all sorts of variations and new sizes, it's pretty hard not to find a gun of some sort in one of the "standards" that will do what you need it to in terms of ease of carry and terminal performance. Everyone is free to dream of whatever they want, personally convenience and ammo prices figure heavily in my choices in the main.

[bearcatter]

Heizer's little .45s are smaller, but don't think I'd care to fire one that small....

[WECSOG]

"NObody still makes a .32 revolver, except maybe Charter. I'd have to check for their "Undercoverette" model."

Charter Arms still makes the 32 H&R undercoverette (lousy name), in both a standard (16 oz) and a light wieght (12 oz) version. However a 90 gr H&R mag @ 1000 fps, is a whole different ball game compared with a 65 gr 32acp  @ 800 fps out of a mouse gun. I considered the Charter 32 H&R...Like an NAA it too is a five shot.

.327 federal are 32's and there are a number of revolvers made by
Ruger mostly....sp101, gp100, lcr, single seven, and i think blackhawk. I think freedom arms makes one too.

I think the lack of popularity of the .32 round in revolvers is much like the whole .380 thing over the .32acp; For the same size as a .32 revolver, you can get a .38special and a lot more load/bullet type options including shot loads. If I'm going to a Blackhawk size gun, then the .357 makes much more sense in that I can use the .38 special or .357 rounds. With the .327, you're stuck with .327.

A .327 FM revolver (like my Single Seven for example) will chamber and fire: .327 FM, .32 H&R Mag, .32 S&W Long, .32 S&W, and .32 ACP. Five different rounds.

[bill_deshivs]

That's the gist of the situation- no one makes a .32 acp revolver that is SIZED to the .32 acp cartridge.
If someone did, they could sell them-lots of them.

[Dinadan]

That's the gist of the situation- no one makes a .32 acp revolver that is SIZED to the .32 acp cartridge.
If someone did, they could sell them-lots of them.

Exactly my opinion. Make the cylinder as small as a .32 can be and as short as it can be, then build the revolver around those limits.

[heyjoe]

That's the gist of the situation- no one makes a .32 acp revolver that is SIZED to the .32 acp cartridge.
If someone did, they could sell them-lots of them.

Exactly my opinion. Make the cylinder as small as a .32 can be and as short as it can be, then build the revolver around those limits.

doesnt seem like we will ever see it in our lifetime.

[Dinadan]

That's the gist of the situation- no one makes a .32 acp revolver that is SIZED to the .32 acp cartridge.
If someone did, they could sell them-lots of them.

Exactly my opinion. Make the cylinder as small as a .32 can be and as short as it can be, then build the revolver around those limits.

doesnt seem like we will ever see it in our lifetime.

Well aren't you a ray of sunshine!

[bearcatter]

The S&W I-frame Hand Ejector came out in 1896, chambered for .32 S&W Long (6 shot), shortly after in .38 S&W (5 shot), (shorter OAL and weaker than .38 Special). I think that qualifies as a purpose built .32?  .22LR I-frames were introduced in 1960.

The I-Frame was the first revolver with today's swing out cylinder and crane release. It was produced until 1974.

The heavier J-frames started in 1950, especially for .38 Special.

[WECSOG]

The S&W I-frame Hand Ejector came out in 1896, chambered for .32 S&W Long (6 shot), shortly after in .38 S&W (5 shot), (shorter OAL and weaker than .38 Special). I think that qualifies as a purpose built .32?  .22LR I-frames were introduced in 1960.

The I-Frame was the first revolver with today's swing out cylinder and crane release. It was produced until 1974.

The heavier J-frames started in 1950, especially for .38 Special.

I think the J frame is just stretched to accept the .38 Special; not necessarily heavier although it does weigh slightly more because of the increased frame and cylinder length.
I have an I frame .32 from the pre- heat treat days. I don't shoot it very much.

Recently I saw an H&R drop cylinder .32 that was truly tiny; much smaller than my H&R 632. IIRC it was a 5-shot .32 Long. It really wasn't much larger than my Black Widow.