Has anyone tried these yet?

[Warthog]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CONVERSION-CYLINDER-FOR-CAP-AND-BALL-NAA-REVOLVER-NAA-22M-CB-SHOOTS-22-LRs/223187083136?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

The price is ridiculous, you can almost get another Mini for this but I was wondering if anyone has tried these things yet?

[billmeek]

Old and Grumpy has one:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=15229.msg158141#msg158141

[Warthog]

OK, I will await his post then.  I still am not too sure I want one but I would like to know more about them.

[1858Fan]

For me it would sorta defeat the main purpose of the Companion which is that it not be a firearm - and therefore is allowed to go places a firearm cannot legally go. Once you put the conversion cylinder in it now your Companion is a firearm. Presumably if you put the C&B cylinder back in it probably goes back to not being a firearm, but for me I wouldn't want to muddy the waters.

I have a 22 Magnum NAA mini if I want to shoot fixed ammunition - my Companion is for holy black!

[OLD and GRUMPY]

They work just fine. Mini is slow to reload. The conversion even more so.  I got mine just because I could.  At the price Warty is talking about just buy a new mini. This is a novelty not a practical thing. I have put fifty rounds through it. No ftf. Fun but not practical.  Enjoy.

[Warthog]

1858fan, you can take a BP gun places you can't take a cartridge gun.  Odd, you can't do that here.  If a state park says no firearms, not even a BP gun can be used there.  In any case, as far as the Feds are concerned, it is a firearm even if it uses BP, the only difference is no background check needed to buy one.

I love BP guns and love to fire them.  The nasty smelling smoke and all make me smile.  Of course I don't see it as holy, just see it as Black Powder.
Thanks O&G, I really wasn't gonna get one as the guy wants way too much for it.

[Dinadan]

I agree that it is over priced. Those buttons look awfully easy to lose, for one thing. I have paid over $200 for a conversion cylinder, but mine actually has a firing pin for each chamber. I thought it was too expensive, too.

[billmeek]

Wouldn't the installation of the conversion cylinder in a NAA Companion constitute "making of a firearm" and therefore make it subject to any regular firearm carry laws?

[Uncle_Lee]

Wouldn't the installation of the conversion cylinder in a NAA Companion constitute "making of a firearm" and therefore make it subject to any regular firearm carry laws?

Not unless you alter the frame.
If you have a black powder revolver and buy a conversion cylinder for it with a loading gate, you must cut a channel in the frame to load the cylinder.
Once you have cut the channel (altered the frame) it becomes a firearm.

Now that you have "made the firearm" it is yours. You can't trade it, sell it, or give it away.
In order to sell it you must have all the licenses and insurances to manufacture firearms. That takes a lot of money.

Can't believe me??
Check with the BATF.

[billmeek]

Uncle lee,

I don't think that modifying the frame is necessary.  The ATF considers swapping out the pistol barrel and grips of a Thompson/Center Contender rifle to be "making a pistol".  I also just looked around at the ATF site and located this in a definitions section:

Make.
This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this part), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm.

Source: https://regulations.atf.gov/479-11/2016-00192#479-11-p2710366668

By converting the Companion to where it is no longer requiring ball and cap to fire thereby classifying it an "antique", you are making it a firearm.

From what I understand, you can make a firearm for personal use but not for sale or distribution as allowed by 'The Gun Control Act of 1968'.  A personal made firearm does not have to be registered or serialized.  However, the law does not explicitly preclude an unlicensed person from later selling, giving away, or otherwise transferring a homemade firearm to another person as long as it was originally intended for personal use.

[Ruger]

. . .  the main purpose of the Companion which is that it not be a firearm - and therefore is allowed to go places a firearm cannot legally go. . . . . . . .

I believe that is only when it comes to the USPS.  I think the banks would still have an issue . . .

[OLD and GRUMPY]

#1----  Firearms laws differ often by zip code. (can ship to one but not the other)    Bp may not be a fire arm in one city but the same as a AR in another.   Check your local laws-- NOT  a bunch of old farts on line.

#2-- The "buttons"--  Firing pins are small and easy to loose. Also  easy to get in upside down. She will not fire and the TINY pin will get crushed by the hammer rendering it useless .  I saw this coming and worked it out before hand. Paint the aft end of the pin white. Easy to see in the dirt or if in ass backwards.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

. . .  the main purpose of the Companion which is that it not be a firearm - and therefore is allowed to go places a firearm cannot legally go. . . . . . . .

I believe that is only when it comes to the USPS.  I think the banks would still have an issue . . .

Banks hell! Try the Secret Service!

In Gun Nuts CA I can order a BP revolver shipped to my door next day. I can and did order a conversion cylinder for the 1851 Navy to my door next day. All legal. Put it together  .

[Dinadan]

NAA is a bit different from some of the black powder conversion revolvers. The Ubertis and Pietta's are reproductions of revolvers originally designed for BP. You can get a conversion cylinder for some of those revolvers, though they usually come with cautions to shoot only low power ammo. That kind of conversion is reasonable, since it makes an antiquated revolver easier to shoot but does not rival the power of new designs. The NAA Companion is a modern design adapted to fire antiquated ammo. Converting one of those back to firing modern ammo does not make a lot of sense other than just to prove it can be done, especially with the price of a conversion cylinder almost a much as a new Mini. Unless a person cannot buy a modern Mini because of where they live or other legal obstacles.

[1858Fan]

1858fan, you can take a BP gun places you can't take a cartridge gun.  Odd, you can't do that here.  If a state park says no firearms, not even a BP gun can be used there.  In any case, as far as the Feds are concerned, it is a firearm even if it uses BP, the only difference is no background check needed to buy one.

Of course it will vary by the laws in your jurisdiction. In Florida any firearm using a primitive ignition system is classified as an "antique firearm" (even if of modern manufacture) and is specifically excluded from the definition of "firearm".

In Florida it is illegal for any public park to say "no firearms" so there really isn't an issue with that here. What there is an issue with is the list of "prohibited places" for concealed weapon permit holders. You can't carry your firearm into a professional athletic event, into a place licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages on the premises - in such portion of the establishment as is primarily devoted to that purpose, etc. So if you were going to see a Tampa Bay Lightning game and wanted to remain armed, your EDC would be a no-no, but your NAA Companion would be just fine.

[1858Fan]

. . .  the main purpose of the Companion which is that it not be a firearm - and therefore is allowed to go places a firearm cannot legally go. . . . . . . .

I believe that is only when it comes to the USPS.  I think the banks would still have an issue . . .

Is it illegal to carry a concealed weapon in banks where you live? Perfectly legal in Florida if you have a concealed weapons permit.

Regarding postal property, 39 CFR 232.1(l) says:
Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Lacking a definition of "dangerous or deadly weapons" carrying the Companion would probably be prohibited on postal property.

[Uncle_Lee]

Uncle lee,

I don't think that modifying the frame is necessary.  The ATF considers swapping out the pistol barrel and grips of a Thompson/Center Contender rifle to be "making a pistol".  I also just looked around at the ATF site and located this in a definitions section:

Make.
This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this part), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm.

Source: https://regulations.atf.gov/479-11/2016-00192#479-11-p2710366668

By converting the Companion to where it is no longer requiring ball and cap to fire thereby classifying it an "antique", you are making it a firearm.

From what I understand, you can make a firearm for personal use but not for sale or distribution as allowed by 'The Gun Control Act of 1968'.  A personal made firearm does not have to be registered or serialized. However, the law does not explicitly preclude an unlicensed person from later selling, giving away, or otherwise transferring a homemade firearm to another person as long as it was originally intended for personal use.

We are saying about the same thing.
Without altering the frame you can make the black powder revolver back to original by removing the conversion cylinder and installing the black powder cylinder.
Once you alter the frame, It (the frame) is a firearm even without a cylinder in it.

The last (red) part I have never read. I have read where you couldn't get rid of it.

[billmeek]

However, the law does not explicitly preclude an unlicensed person from later selling, giving away, or otherwise transferring a homemade firearm to another person as long as it was originally intended for personal use.

The last (red) part I have never read. I have read where you couldn't get rid of it.

Like you,  I would recommend checking with the ATF to verify the rules.  I would cite a specific example like, "If I built a personal firearm from an 80% receiver and don't like it, can I sell it locally to re-coup most of the cost?  Is there any requirements for marking it before the sale?"

[Warthog]

Putting a conversion cylinder into a BP revolver does not constitute construction of a firearm.  In fact, an individual is allowed to construct a firearm if it is for personal use.  IF the person wants to sell said firearm, then he/she must engrave the place it was constructed, city/state, and the person who did the constructions name.  THIS is only necessary if the firearm in question lacks a serial number, if this is the case, and the engraving is done, it must go through an 07FFL whio with then put a serial number onto it so it can enter the stream of firearms legally.

I held an 07FFL w/SOT for 15 years.  It hasn't changed since I held that FFL either.

[LHB]

While I was working as a school teacher, I was told by our county "States Attorney" that a police officer can write a ticket for anything he wants, and at that time, the circuit court system would probably back the officer.   

But, if it was important to you, you had best hire a lawyer, and then after the circuit court convicts you, appeal it, because the appellate court looks at the intent of the law.   This was in reference to a "combat" shooting match going on during deer season, and the participants were threatened by an office, because they were not wearing orange, and during a shotgun stage, they did not have 3 shot plugs in their guns, and were using buck shot, which was illegal to hunt with in Illinois.

Problem is, you have that arrest record, and a conviction, and I don't care what they say, that stuff never really goes away, even when it is ordered to be cleared.   Now we have some state forms that ask if you have ever been arrested, not convicted, of certain charges, like domestic abuse.

[Uncle_Lee]

The form 4473 is the form you fill out when you buy a firearm.
It has that question about "domestic abuse".