After this long you would think 22 ammo supplies would catch up?

[45flint]

In a free market this seems like it shouldn't happen long term?

[MR_22]

Yes, I would think so, but I think somehow the Obama Administration is messing with the supply. Even departments like Agriculture are buying up ammo (presumably to help dry up supply), but they're not buying .22LR. I have no idea why that is the rarest caliber now, but I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't want us gun owners to have it, so he's probably figured out a way to block it from getting to stores.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

[TwoGunJayne]

It's been going on rather a long time with no valid explaination I've heard yet. I would have said last year that it would have gotten better by now.

[Goatpacker]

Is rather odd. It does not make very much sense to me, but then again I'm just a country boy. I have a decent supply for now but would like a little more at fair prices. At least for now it is not a daily mission of mine to search for it like it was for about 8 months or so. I do look on the shelves when I'm in the stores but not currently stopping in just to see if they have it.

Kinda has me thinking I should be looking for a Super Companion now?

[TwoGunJayne]

Any excuse for a new gun...

[Goatpacker]

That's what it is all about right???

[ikoiko]

I want a sig p232 in .22 lr

[Kevin]

It's a conspiracy and all the ammunition and firearms manufacturers are in on it - for the good of the country. President Obama organized it to save America from the coming Sino-Soviet-Korean war. The CIA discovered that China, Russia, and North Korea are planning on uniting to start World War 3. Russia is running out of neighboring countries to intimidate into business deals. China's economy is faltering and soon they will have nothing left but polluted water, air, land and worthless American dollars. North Korea has about starved themselves to death with their economic mismanagement. The leaders of those countries had a secret meeting and devised a battle plan to attack and conquer Japan, the rest of Asia, and the Middle-east oil states.

President Obama cleverly (nobody with as much education as he has could really be a stupid libtard of the magnitude he pretends to be for the press and public) determined that the United States would lose in a conventional armament race against Russia and China, so he devised a two-pronged strategy.

He has the American aviation industry building huge numbers of drones with .22LR and .22Mag mini-gatling guns - sort of like a miniature version of "Puff the Magic Dragon" AC-47 or AC-130 gunships. When you are planning to fight millions of enemy troops you need millions of rounds of ammunition. The smaller size and weight of .22 rounds will ease the logistics of transporting them to the battlefields. The drones will be controlled over the Internet and there will be thousands of Americans willing to pilot them - eager to rain actual death and destruction upon their targets instead of racking up cyber-points in Doom, Quake, Halo, or Call of Duty. Major offensives will be timed around Christmas vacations, spring breaks and summer vacations, when the most air support will be available.

The other part of Obama's war plan includes arming the civilian populations in the defending countries with small arms. Due to the lower recoil of rimfire ammunition and it's suitability for smaller lighter weapons (logistics in transporting and distributing the lighter arms and ammo enter the picture again), gun manufacturers are building huge stockpiles of .22 caliber firearms to distribute to the civilian populations of our allies in the coming war. It's not known yet if the new Axis powers intend to invade India and Pakistan, or just intimidate them into neutrality, nor how they might react to a major war erupting east, north and west of them. In the event they do become involved and join our side, President Obama wishes to have more than just token amounts of arms and ammo to also supply their civilian populations.

An interesting deception (or maskrovia, as Tom Clancy referred to the practice in his novels) - Colorado politicians passed their magazine restriction law just so Magpul could move out of the state without arousing suspicion. The new factory in Wyoming is actually 8 times the size of their old one, and less than 10% of their production is centerfire magazines. They are cranking out hundreds of thousands of 10/22 magazines to go with the rifles Ruger is churning out. Those will be the battle rifles for the civilian populations of Japan, Viet Nam, Thailand, the Philippines.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Sandy has NAA employees secretly cranking out a "Liberator" style of Guardian chambered in .22LR with an integral silencer, which will be distributed to agents behind enemy lines as the war begins.

Remember, you heard it here first.

[ikoiko]

I will remember.

[Goatpacker]

Like I said. I'm just a plain ole country boy but Kevin on the other hand knows world affairs. I think he might be on to something so whatever all that was he said I am going to believe. Only part that is hard for me to accept is the fact that Obama might have put that much thought into something!

[I]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Sandy has NAA employees secretly cranking out a "Liberator" style of Guardian chambered in .22LR with an integral silencer, which will be distributed to agents behind enemy lines as the war begins.

Remember, you heard it here first.

Okay, when is the Early Bird order? 

[cfsharry]

Kevin,
Great deduction.  Sound reasoning.  Outstanding piece of work.
The Israelis are way ahead of us and in for the duration.

[MR_22]

It's a conspiracy and all the ammunition and firearms manufacturers are in on it - for the good of the country. President Obama organized it to save America from the coming Sino-Soviet-Korean war. The CIA discovered that China, Russia, and North Korea are planning on uniting to start World War 3. Russia is running out of neighboring countries to intimidate into business deals. China's economy is faltering and soon they will have nothing left but polluted water, air, land and worthless American dollars. North Korea has about starved themselves to death with their economic mismanagement. The leaders of those countries had a secret meeting and devised a battle plan to attack and conquer Japan, the rest of Asia, and the Middle-east oil states.

[...]

Remember, you heard it here first.

Um, wow, Kevin. That's sure a humdinger. China, North Korea, and Russia? I'm pretty sure they all hate each other. Not sure if they hate each other as much as they hate America, but it's probably pretty close.

We'll be sure to give you credit when it happens. I think I have a better chance of winning a half billion dollars in the lottery, tho.

[theysayimnotme]

Wal-Mart in Hemet had 15 boxes of .22 SHORTS on the shelf last week. Then a day later the Wal-Mart in Lake Elsinore had 13 boxes of .22 Shorts on the shelf. Very strange except maybe the price of almost $4.50 a box was why they were still there.
Ammo (except for .22s) seems plentiful now but the prices are high.
I have also noted that the gun stores are no longer crowded. You used to have to take a number & WAIT.
Now there are usually more sales people than customers.

[leafhopper]

According to my local FFL, .22 is going out the back door of some chain stores as fast as it is unloaded from the trucks. It goes right into the back of SUV's headed to gun shows and street vendors to be sold at 500% profit.  My FFL limits .22 ammo to 2 boxes per customer and since he knows most of them personally, they can't send their sons, daughters and wives in for more.

If I were to sell mine, I could probably buy Microsoft...but why would I want to do that? In a year, I should be able to trade a .22 cartridge for a bag of groceries. I'll be rich, you hear, RICH, murawhaha!

Well, actually I only have about 1,000 rounds and I'm mighty stingy with that. I sure want to go out shooting but I'm afraid to use it up.

[RogueTS1]

According to my local FFL, .22 is going out the back door of some chain stores as fast as it is unloaded from the trucks. It goes right into the back of SUV's headed to gun shows and street vendors to be sold at 500% profit.

That is what I hear around my parts. Every other ammo is available at normal low prices but not much .22 anywhere.

[TwoGunJayne]

Well, all this means is that NAA needs to make a concealment PCP .22 pellet pistol. Who says it has to be weak?

The .22 Evanix AR 6 "Hunting Master" pistol offers 1000 fps. Are we to be reduced to CCW-ing pellet pistols?

[Goatpacker]

Not to blame their anger but all the FFL's and LGS's talk about the big box stores, gun shows, and the Internet in less than kind words. I understand their frustration and think that their only salvation is to invest in tools and concentrate on smithing skills. This is a sad part about modern day trade I will admit, but they have to "adapt and overcome". Times are changing and most of us have had to do that.

[Classanr]

What does a LGS offer that differentiates them from box stores and internet?

Lower prices?
Broader choices?
Deeper stock?
More accoutrements?
Better guns?

They offer the opportunity to fondle, and to find something used.
Oh, and to chat.

The market is demonstrating that most buyers don't want to chat, know what they want, and don't want it used.

So a LGS has devolved to a place where people who want to fondle old guns go to chat.
Nothing wrong with that, but it is not a very profitable way to spend time as a gun seller.

[swolf]

I am all for supporting a LGS.  BUT...., my local dealer is an arrogant know-it-all that I do NOT enjoy chatting with, and he wastes most of my time trying to sell me something so far off of what I am interested in that I hate to ask him anything.  I bit the proverbial bullet last March and paid for an overpriced .45 cowboy pistol from him, and spent an extra 15 minutes listening to his schpeel about a replica WWI rifle he had in stock while he stalled the final paperwork.  I ended up walking out the door as he was still talking to me about it.  I prefer to go to the local hardware store for guns and ammo.  I have 2 other stores in driving range and have similar problems there.  I want to give these guys my business, but I get a better deal online and would rather risk a ripoff than deal with the BS.

[MR_22]

I am all for supporting a LGS.  BUT...., my local dealer is an arrogant know-it-all that I do NOT enjoy chatting with, and he wastes most of my time trying to sell me something so far off of what I am interested in that I hate to ask him anything.

This reminds me of something I experienced. I was in a local gun store where I sometimes visit, but its' not my favorite store, because their prices generally aren't that great and they aren't that friendly. But lately they HAVE been having ammo, so you go where you can find it.

Anyway, so I was looking for some non +P .38-Special ammo for my magnesium Taurus 856 revolver. I found some Hornady lightweight ammo that looked pretty good, but I couldn't see that it was +P or not. I assumed it wasn't, because the box wasn't marked as such, but I wasn't convinced from just looking at the box. The magnesium revolver specifically says NO +P ammo on the barrel, and even tho I think it will probably handle it, I wanted to comply with the "suggestion" from Taurus.

So, I grabbed a box and went up to the guy at the ammo counter and asked if this Hornady ammo was rated for +P. He said, "Ammo isn't rated for +P. Guns are." I stared at him, like saying, "What the heck are you talking about?" but I said nothing. Then he continued, "but that should be OK for guns not rated for +P."

Did he think I was that stupid? Because he sure treated me like it. I know it's the guns that are rated +P, but is it incorrect to call the ammo "rated" for +P? I didn't bother calling him an idiot out loud, but c'mon, really? Did that make him feel smart or something by apparently attempting to correct and humiliate a customer? Seriously? Was he confused about what I meant? Hardly.

Now, I understanding someone correcting another if they called a magazine a clip, or something like that, but really? Wow, what a fool.

[Goatpacker]

We must be neighbors because both of you guys sound like you are talking about Murle's.

[TwoGunJayne]

Did he think I was that stupid? Because he sure treated me like it. I know it's the guns that are rated +P, but is it incorrect to call the ammo "rated" for +P? I didn't bother calling him an idiot out loud, but c'mon, really? Did that make him feel smart or something by apparently attempting to correct and humiliate a customer? Seriously? Was he confused about what I meant? Hardly.

If we are to spiel, how about one that is informative?

It is only incorrect to call .380 acp "rated for +P" as there is nothing even resembling a spec for it. The .380 hot loaders are often forced to call their cartridge by another name, such as .380 SWAT (Magsafe, if I recall clearly.)

It is also incorrect to call any rimfire "+P" as SAAMI spec is plain, simple, and not including anything like a high pressure variant. CCI was forced to call their "hot" rifle load "Maxi Mag +V" because of SAAMI.

There is 9x19 +P and 9x19 +P+ (the cop load.) You can have a shell case with a head stamp proudly stating 9mm +P+. The reasons for this are many, including the fact that 9mm long guns can almost all take the high pressure stuff. They don't even have to be expensive; my 9mm Hipoint carbine is +P rated by the manufacturer. Historically, one usually didn't fire 9mm subgun ammo from a pistol.

You can't get a .380 +P+ headstamped case because there are none, save for a custom brass run. Buffalo Bore .380 acp cases have stars on them, not +P or V or whatever.

Now, I understanding someone correcting another if they called a magazine a clip, or something like that, but really? Wow, what a fool.

Were I selling some clips and magazines and a customer came in to buy, "correcting" them is not the best idea. Ask what gun, then you usually know if it's a clip or magazine. After that, just say what it is. You don't even have to stop the guy, just let it slide on by.

I thought angry customers were a bad thing?

[RogueTS1]

"I thought angry customers were a bad thing?"

Not in this new society.......... "I could not find a coach...................with this damned Revolution of yours everybody is so equal you can't get anybody to do the driving!"

quote from Sir Percy Blakeney, Bt in "The Scarlet Pimpernel."

[Goatpacker]

If I have something for sale and it is what you want, I don't give a crap what you call it and I'll even call it the same. My only question would be how many do you want and will that be cash or credit Sir?

[leafhopper]

I guess I'm lucky. I live on the Oregon coast, so not many stores of any kind (except grocery stores and Mexican restaurants...oh, and bars). But we do have a great FFL here. Bruce, the owner, has built up a reputation along the coast as the place to buy your guns and ammo. He will search to ends of the earth to find what you want and at a price that is usually less than Buds. He really takes care of his customers. He is now the biggest gun dealer on the coast here and people even come in from the Salem and Portland area to buy from him. I have purchased all of my guns except 2 from him and feel bad about those 2. He will sometimes call me to ask me questions about guns once in awhile if he thinks I have that particular one, because a customer asked a question he wasn't sure about the answer to. He takes care of his customers and I think we take care of him.

[ikoiko]

Bruce sounds like a good guy.

[top dog]

If customers would refuse to buy 22 ammo at high prices and not buy any ammo for some period of time,the shelves would soon be full of 22 ammo on sale.

Just remember the LGS that wanted to charge you $75. for a brick of 22s when it comes time to purchase some other things and go elsewhere.

One LGS had a large supply of 22 ammo but gave the impression to his customers that he had very little and charged accordingly.

                                                                                                                        Top Dog

[RogueTS1]

I like this guy of yours Leafhopper and I like the way you think Goatpacker. Makes sense.

[Classanr]

If customers would refuse to buy 22 ammo at high prices and not buy any ammo for some period of time,the shelves would soon be full of 22 ammo on sale.

Just remember the LGS that wanted to charge you $75. for a brick of 22s when it comes time to purchase some other things and go elsewhere.

One LGS had a large supply of 22 ammo but gave the impression to his customers that he had very little and charged accordingly.

                                                                                                                        Top Dog

+1.  The closest LGS was previously owned by a friend of mine.  He sold, then passed away.  His wife constantly gets calls - for her to buy the store back and get rid of the new owner.  Desperate for Large Pistol primers, I walked in.  Dumb move on my part, shows how desperate I was.  This new owner (I shall refer to him as "Mr. J") had one 100cnt tray of CCI LPprimers, marked at $7+ for the little pack of 100.  Whew!

Suddenly, I had to answer nature's call in  big way, so I kinda just used Mr. J's restroom.  No sign on the door saying "employees only" - no, wait, there was something hand-scrawled on a piece of paper taped up since I'd last been to the store, but I figured he'd be even more upset if I messed his floor, so the sign accidentally got unstuck from the unlocked door.  Must have been something I ate, or a price I'd just seen, or something like that, but urgent is urgent, you know?

Much to my surprise, Mr. J. had 4 unopened CASES of bricks of CCI Large Pistol primers stacked in his bathroom, and one more case with two bricks left, one of the bricks not quite full.  21k+ LP primers in his bathroom (not to mention the 50k Large Rifle primers he also had stacked there),  but a mere 100 primers on the display case marked for twice the normal retail price.

I came out of the latrine and offered to relieve him of a brick of 1,000 for $35 (even now, they are $32/k at MidwayUSA).

His reply, cool and coupled with a hard stare: "Those primers are spoken for."

Well, fella, my money's spoken for as well.

[theysayimnotme]

"I thought angry customers were a bad thing?"

Not in this new society.......... "I could not find a coach...................with this damned Revolution of yours everybody is so equal you can't get anybody to do the driving!"

quote from Sir Percy Blakeney, Bt in "The Scarlet Pimpernel."

They seek him here, they seek him there, those Frenchies seek him everywhere, is he in Heaven, is he in Hell? That damned elusive Pimpernel. That used to be one of my favorite radio programs.

[TwoGunJayne]

If customers would refuse to buy 22 ammo at high prices and not buy any ammo for some period of time,the shelves would soon be full of 22 ammo on sale.

Just remember the LGS that wanted to charge you $75. for a brick of 22s when it comes time to purchase some other things and go elsewhere.

One LGS had a large supply of 22 ammo but gave the impression to his customers that he had very little and charged accordingly.

                                                                                                                        Top Dog

+1.  The closest LGS was previously owned by a friend of mine.  He sold, then passed away.  His wife constantly gets calls - for her to buy the store back and get rid of the new owner.  Desperate for Large Pistol primers, I walked in.  Dumb move on my part, shows how desperate I was.  This new owner (I shall refer to him as "Mr. J") had one 100cnt tray of CCI LPprimers, marked at $7+ for the little pack of 100.  Whew!

Suddenly, I had to answer nature's call in  big way, so I kinda just used Mr. J's restroom.  No sign on the door saying "employees only" - no, wait, there was something hand-scrawled on a piece of paper taped up since I'd last been to the store, but I figured he'd be even more upset if I messed his floor, so the sign accidentally got unstuck from the unlocked door.  Must have been something I ate, or a price I'd just seen, or something like that, but urgent is urgent, you know?

Much to my surprise, Mr. J. had 4 unopened CASES of bricks of CCI Large Pistol primers stacked in his bathroom, and one more case with two bricks left, one of the bricks not quite full.  21k+ LP primers in his bathroom (not to mention the 50k Large Rifle primers he also had stacked there),  but a mere 100 primers on the display case marked for twice the normal retail price.

I came out of the latrine and offered to relieve him of a brick of 1,000 for $35 (even now, they are $32/k at MidwayUSA).

His reply, cool and coupled with a hard stare: "Those primers are spoken for."

Well, fella, my money's spoken for as well.

The exact same thing happened in a LGS near me. The good guy owner sold, the new owner had an absolute mountain of .22 mag ammo in the back. He only kept 3-8 boxes on the otherwise empty shelf and had them at $18 a box. Once I realized what was up, I've never been back.

Thief.

"I thought angry customers were a bad thing?"

Not in this new society.......... "I could not find a coach...................with this damned Revolution of yours everybody is so equal you can't get anybody to do the driving!"

quote from Sir Percy Blakeney, Bt in "The Scarlet Pimpernel."

They seek him here, they seek him there, those Frenchies seek him everywhere, is he in Heaven, is he in heck? That damned elusive Pimpernel. That used to be one of my favorite radio programs.

Good book. I always thought the Pimpernel was like a Metro Zorro.

[big_gus]

From everything I've read (which is credible), the reason for the shortage of 22 ammo still is these 2 factors:
#1: Manufacturers make VERY LITTLE on 22 long rifle compared to other calibers and hence are not buying extra equipment/space for 22lr. Just running what machines they have to the max. Some did re-up on centerfire calibers which they make ALOT MORE on which is why we see it now.

#2 and the biggest reason for shortage: People are panic buying, people who used to keep 200 rounds now want 2000, people who kept 2500 now want 25000, people who kept a case want 10 cases, etc. And of course people lining up who dont even care about it to double, triple, or Quadruple their money on it.

When people stop paying $50/+ for a $20 brick of 22s, is when we will start to see it on the shelves more and more... jmho.

[nastruck]

You got it, gus!!!!
Amen

[RogueTS1]

Yes, I believe it to be so.

I have the Scarlet Pimpernel on DVD as well as several of the old print books in the library. They are great reads and put to shame the shows and movies. I truly love the character.