Casings always stuck in Sidewinder

[warrnan]

Hey y'all. I'm not sure what the problem is here. I bought a used sidewinder at a good price. The ejector seems to work but everytime I shoot it I have to use a knife to pry the shells as they are stuck in the chambers and the ejector won't move them. I double checked and I am only using the right shells in the right cylinder. I'm not mixing magnum and LR rounds in the wrong one. Is this a known issue? I didn't expect the little ejector to be perfect like a large revolver but still it is essentially unusable except to eject unfired cartridges.

Will naa help me service a used revolver? Is the warranty to the first owner only? Thanks in advance for any fixes and advice.

God bless and stay safe.

[Goatpacker]

What ammo are you useing?

[TwoGunJayne]

I got sticky extraction with South American ammo until I quit using it. (Aguila.)

I've had defective undersize batches of rimfire do it, too. (Remington brand, even.)

If it's an American made (not Bitterroot Valley Hills), try a different batch before you confirm that it's the pistol.

Now and then, an off-size batch gets through QC even with the big boys.

[warrnan]

Speer gold dot .22mag and armscorps .22LR. I have to tap the ejector with a 2x4 or pry them out with a knife. Can't push hard enough with my thumb and I'm a 6' 165lb man. My dad tried and couldn't either. I'm thinking this is why the original owner traded it in to my LGS.

If stinking .22 wasn't so hard to find id test another brand of mag and LR in it.

[TwoGunJayne]

Question 1: Are you getting split brass casings? A partial or full split down the length of the side?
Question 2: Can you make the casings rattle by shaking a loaded cylinder side to side?
Question 3: Just so we're clear, this is a "conversion" Sidewinder with both the LR and the MAG cylinders for you to swap out? Will a magnum cartridge fit in the "LR" cylinder?

Armscor .22 mag is not for NAA mini revolvers. Since Bitterroot Valley Hills sells rebranded Armscor, they have a warning sticker as well. This stuff can cause a chain fire, maybe.

Sticky extraction is usually one of 3 things:

1. Defective ammo. You could see anything. A couple of micrometer measurements of the cartridge width can help you proceed.
2. Undersize or rough chamber. The casing is now pressure swaged into the chamber. These cartridge should mike SMALLER than fired casings from another gun with a proper chamber. You may also see surface imperfections.
3. Oversize chamber. You may see split brass, the revolver will most likely be spitting lead from the barrel to cylinder gap as it shaves in passing. At the split of the casing, the edges may appear folded inwards. This is because they are. A split casing must mike larger than both an unfired casing and a fired casing from a gun with a proper chamber. It wouldn't have split otherwise unless you're seeing that "folded edge" thing I mentioned.

1 is the easy. 2 is fixable with a bit of drill rod and sandpaper. There is nothing to be done but swap parts for 3.

Brand new mini? Time to call Jessica at customer service. They'll make it right, they always do. Worst case it might take a couple of tries, nobody's perfect.

Tell her I said hi. 

On a "fluff and buff" of a new gun, polishing the chamber with a bit of very fine sand paper around a rod chucked into a drill gets it sorted right out if the chamber is rough or undersized.


SAFETY WARNING: Firing .22 LR in a .22 MAGNUM cylinder can do a lot of strange things by itself, from stuck casings to split casings to a tied-up revolver that won't advance and won't cock. Remember, a .22 magnum cartridge will NEVER fit in a properly made LR cylinder, but you can accidentally put an LR into a MAG cylinder.

Storytime: A relative of mine said he liked his Ruger Single Six in .22 mag so he could also fire .22 lr in it. I said, "Oh, wow! You're so lucky, it came with a conversion cylinder?" Uhhh... no. He was so stubborn that he refused to listen to me that you shouldn't shoot .22 lr in a mag cylinder. His solution was to stop firing the pistol alltogether. He wouldn't sell it, either.

[warrnan]

The casings aren't split at all. I have a conversion SW with 2 cylinders and I have always put in the correct ammo type into their respective cylinders. The loaded mag chamber will rattle when I shake it. I don't have any LR on me but I'll check it later when I'm home. I got the gun used so I'm not sure if Jessica will be able to help me.

Thanks everyone this is really good info.

[TwoGunJayne]

Welcome, sir. Please come on back later and talk about guns some more.

Armscor isn't the best ammo, but those Gold Dots should (mostly) work. I've read a few reports of people with tough extraction in an NAA mini with that ammo, but 100% or even 20% of the people aren't screaming how it's crap. I haven't found any yet to test in mine, so that's just secondhand yack. I have to buy all of my own ammo, so I'm limited to this crazy ammo market right now... just like you. It sucks.

If mag casings rattle in any NAA cylinder, this means that:

1. That is definitely NOT an LR cylinder, or it's extremely jacked up if it is supposed to be one. Mag cannot fit into a proper LR chamber.
2. We can probably rule out undersized chambers, but not necessarily an EGGED-OUT chamber (out-of-round condition)
3. NAA's lifetime warranty applies to the current lawful owner. Life. Life. You have warranty, don't sweat it.

Time to send her in, sounds like. Something is off.

I've picked up a few minis myself that had issues. A quick trip back to the Ranch in Utah fixed them up everytime, except for a couple of extremely unusual problem children (red-headed stepchildren) that took a few trips before the quirks were smooth.

It takes gentlemanly patience, but it's worth it. This is gear that's "like a sir." Patience and polish.

It is nearly a Herculean effort to get these things "out the door" at 100% every time. Honestly, I beat the crap out of mine when I use them (when I can find ammo.) At the end of it all, NAA's lifetime warranty has never let me down. It just took a couple tries a few times sometimes.

My highest round count mini had over 15,000 rounds before I quit counting, it was only back to NAA 3 times. One of those was just a mainspring that I could have swapped myself. For comparison, 2 trips back to the factory for "lifetime warranty" on a Cobra Derringer resulted in a safe queen with less than 23 rounds total through it. It kept coming back worse every time.

Cheers!

[RogueTS1]

NAA's have a lifetime warranty. Does not matter how many owners there have been so if it needs work NAA will make it right and usually quite quickly.

If I remember correctly; somewhere it was stated/written not to try and force the ejector on the Sidewinder if casings were being difficult as the small rod can very likely bend with too much force. In times like this the ejector rod from another Mini is the tool to get the job done. Seems kind of silly to need a regular Mini to make the Sidewinder Mini usable at times but I believe that the price to be paid for a swing out cylinder on such a small revolver.

[Dinadan]

Hey y'all. I'm not sure what the problem is here. I bought a used sidewinder at a good price. The ejector seems to work but everytime I shoot it I have to use a knife to pry the shells as they are stuck in the chambers and the ejector won't move them. I double checked and I am only using the right shells in the right cylinder. I'm not mixing magnum and LR rounds in the wrong one. Is this a known issue? I didn't expect the little ejector to be perfect like a large revolver but still it is essentially unusable except to eject unfired cartridges.

Have you given the cylinder chambers a good cleaning with solvent and a bronze brush? That would be the first thing I would try. I have not had much problem with ammo sticking in any of my NAA Minis. I recall that Aguila Super Colibri was hard to extract. I am leery of putting too much stress on the extractor rod, If ammo is hard to extract I push the cases out one at a time with something. The Aguila is the only ammo that I recall needing that.

[warrnan]

It's funny. I am trusting it as a carry gun as it has fired and cycled reliably so I am loathe to part with it for a short time. Hahaha. Armscorps was sadly the only practice .22lr I can find lately. It's dirty but economical for practice. Sadly the super expensive gold dot is just as hard to eject. I clean it religiously with hoppe's 9 and a brass brush. I also put rem oil after cleaning and yet the issue persists thru nearly 200 rounds of practice. I didn't much mind because I was having a blast with it but if would prefer if my "gentleman's vest pocket revolver" ejected as flawlessly as it looks, cycles and shoots. I will send it into Jessica then. Thanks again everyone. I'm so glad to know my beloved Rosewood Sidewinder "Rosalynn" can visit the ranch thanks to the true gun lifetime warranty.

You folks all have a good weekend. 

[Dinadan]

Warman - to me, the strangest aspect of your problem is that it affects both the LR and the mag cylinder. I can see a gun getting one badly bored cylinder, but the same gun getting two just seems unlikely. If Gold-Dots do not extract properly, I doubt that anything will do better in the magnum cylinder. Too bad you cannot test some other brand of LR ammo. Since Armscor magnums are Not for use in North American Arms guns, I wonder if the LR ammo also does not work well in NAA revolvers. Other than that I am out of ideas.

[grayelky]

I started reading this, and immediately, my mind began looking for solutions and suggestions. I then read just about everything I was going to suggest. Now, I got nothing. All the good stuff's done been written.

Oh, yeah. Glad you found a SW. A used NAA is very rarely a bad deal.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

The brass on new .22 seams to be thinner than old stuff. This lets it expand more in the chamber. Last year I decided to use up my old ammo from the 50s,60s and 70s.BIG mistake! 1500 rounds of old Supper x,remington, CCI, Peters target, federal.Shorts, LR ,bird shot,Win Mag,ALL Was good. Not one problem. If you hold the old rounds in one hand and the new in the other the new feels light and looks cheap.Even the good stuff. I have had empty casings stick in several guns that were not a problem with old ammo.

[willr]

Sometimes I have the same problem -- doesn't matter what ammo.  Have the same problem with another 22 revolver.  So I carry with me a short piece of 3/16" brass rod to push them out.  Scares me to use a knife blade to pry them out-- fearful of scratching the cylinder.

willr

[OV-1D]

  Just as everything else , the world is getting cheaper made with anything that is produced . Have we ever heard of products being better and lasting longer let me answer that HECK NO !! That's just one reason our landfills are turning into small countries in mass . Our good and reliable friends the freaking Chinese along with the greedy American S.O.B.'s in big corps will be the death of the world around us . Isn't life grand . Don't forget VOTE EVERY PRESENTLY EMPLOYED S.O.B. OUT ON THEIR AS*ES . EVERYONE !!!!! ALL NEW PERSONNEL !!!!  Sorry for the drifting rant . F*** THEM !!!!