Factory Accuracy??? Do you accept it or improve it???

[Goatpacker]

OK I will start by admitting that I am nowhere close to being a gunsmith and have no claim to being one! Shortly after I got my 1 5/8" mini conversion I was admiring it as many of us do and noticed that the muzzle end of my barrel was not even close to being square! This was obvious wih the eyes only and a square was not needed to detect it! This bothered me to no end. As far as accuracy goes it was what I felt not that bad with the little gun being what it was, not meant to be a target revolver to begin with. I was able to keep 5 shots into groupings of about 2 3/4" at 20 feet most of the time but my rounds always hit to the right of the target about 1 1/2". If you think about barrels and barrel crowns then you know that the crown is the final "kiss goodbye" as the bullet leaves toward the target. My barrel if you looked at it with the sight (useless by the way until altered) towards you the end of the barrel was high on the right side. As the bullet left the barrel the pressure of the gasses would escape on the left before the right ever so slightly. This would have the impact of throwing the bullet to the right of Point of Aim! I emailed NAA and they said this was an issue they would resolve which put me at ease. But did I really want to send the little gun in to have them put another uncrowned barrel on? No! First thing I did was to alter the original sight that looked like half of a dime glued to the top of the barrel. I took a file and filed it down at an angle where the high side was only about 1/16" tall. Not only did this make the useable but made it look a lot more proportional to the tiny revolver! Then I took and squared the end of the barrel very carefully and slowly on a disc sander being sure not to allow any heat build up. I then beveled the outside edge a bit with a needle file and polished the end up. Now all that was left was to cut the crown. Being a man of several tools and none of them designed to cut a crown I took a small round headed brass screw, 8-32 in size, and chucked it up in a drill. I then took 240 grit clover lapping compound and put it on the screw head. Being a spinning round headed screw going into a round hole centering it was not a problem. I pushed a patch into the barrel from the cylinder end with a q tip till it almost came out the end. Then I turned on the drill and lapped a crown into the muzzle! Cleaned up the barrel real good and went for the test to see if the work I had done made an impact or not. For one thing I knew the end of my barrel was square and it looked a lot better too! I fired 5 rounds from a supported rest at a 2" orange dot sticker on a piece of cardboard just as I had done right before this procedure. Both groupings were fired after the sights had been altered to my liking. The result was that my initial group of 2 1/2" that hit to the right went to a 1" group dead center of the orange dot!!! In my opinion that is one huge difference. These little guns by no means are target weapons but the factory accuracy can defiantly be improved upon!!! I have some pics that I will post of the targets and modifications done to the mini in the next couple of days if anyone is interested.

[G50AE]

I am officially citing you with a paragraph violation for that post.

[OV-1D]

  + 1 there G50AE and I thought I was bad . HaHaHa . My eyes crossed up .

[Goatpacker]

Let's just write it off as "I paid more attention in shop class than I did in English class" OK???

[kbuzbee]

Let's just write it off as "I paid more attention in shop class than I did in English class" OK???

Fair enough.

I'd be interested in a more step by step w/ pics

My 15 yo magnum has a bit of a wonky barrel too. Doesn't bother me much, but I like "projects"

Ken

[OV-1D]

Let's just write it off as "I paid more attention in shop class than I did in English class" OK???

  No , no Goatpacker it's just fine I only got lost a number of times and almost gave it up . You just keep posting we need all we can get , thanks .

[Goatpacker]

Kbuzbee, thank you for overlooking my mistakes in grammer and struggleing through my post!!! I will be glad to give more detail and pics!!! I strongly feel that this is a common problem with the accuracy of the minis!!! I also feel that the fact that these little guns have a poor crown is one of the contributors to the fact that some "Keyhole" some ammunition!!! The other fact is that the barrel twist will not accommodate the longer heavier bullets!!! I will get on my big computer and do the pics of the job and more detail as well this weekend. The work can be done in less than two hrs at most. Hardest part is obtaining the lapping compound because it is not something that is on the shelf everywhere I've looked!!! It can be bought online!!! We used to use it to lap worn steam valves when I worked as a sailor on oil tankers! Thanks again!!!

[OV-1D]

  Should be able to get some jewelers rogue from any good jeweler .

[Goatpacker]

Jewlers rouge works great if you want to polish. If you want to cut a crisp crown use lapping compound!!! The rouge will work but to get a good cut it will take time. Jewelry is made from lot softer metal than a gun barrel.

[OV-1D]

  Graphite grease can be had at Ace hardwares along with some round headed brass screws anymore than that dremel tips .

[G50AE]

  Should be able to get some jewelers rogue from any good jeweler .

So that's why it's called jeweler's rogue.

[OV-1D]

  Thats the ticket .

[Goatpacker]

OV-1D, I'm just saying what I know works!!! You use what ever floats your boat! Go out on a limb and do it yourself!!! For that matter if you want you can use comet cleanser that you have under your sink!!! Go ahead and experiment and let me know how you come out!!! Just promise me that you will not stick a dremel tool down your barrel!!! Everybody has opinions some of us have tried and proven things!!!

[Dinadan]

Goatpacker - great post! I have tried improving the crown on one of my minis; I think your method would do better. It is kind of hard to make that first pass with a file or grinder!

[heyjoe]

steady as she goes goatpacker.

[OV-1D]

  Guess he doesn't want to polish it but reface it huh ? Good luck .

[kbuzbee]

Kbuzbee, thank you for overlooking my mistakes in grammer and struggleing through my post!!!

It wasn't that difficult, trust me Daily I find MUCH more difficult things through out the Internet. I get that if the author is Italian or German or... But the worst seem to come from folks right here in the USA (although I guess there is no guarantee how long they've been here.)

Hardest part is obtaining the lapping compound because it is not something that is on the shelf everywhere I've looked!!! It can be bought online!!! We used to use it to lap worn steam valves when I worked as a sailor on oil tankers! Thanks again!!!

I have many grits of diamond paste used for knife strops. I would guess that would work just fine.

Ken

[Goatpacker]

Diamond Paste would probably work just fine. And no joke comet cleanser will cut too but takes some time. If you have several grits that is even better. All the Black Widows, Pugs, MiniMasters I've seen already have a pretty nice crown. The minis not so much, first of all it would be tough to do if the muzzle was not square to start with.

[G50AE]

Diamond Paste would probably work just fine. And no joke comet cleanser will cut too but takes some time. If you have several grits that is even better.

I guess that's grit information to know.

[kbuzbee]

I guess that's grit information to know.

Terrible... Simply terrible

Ken

[OV-1D]

  "Throughout"  one word , now for our next lesson turn to page 2 .  Now class settle down and remain in your seats .

[kbuzbee]

  "Throughout"  one word , now for our next lesson turn to page 2 .  Now class settle down and remain in your seats .

Appreciate that, brother

One of my many errors in life......

Ken

[OV-1D]

  Well good morning Ken you'll have to realize I'm bullsh*ting 90% of the time on here except when it matters so don't take offence just kidding . 

[kbuzbee]

  Well good morning Ken you'll have to realize I'm bullsh*ting 90% of the time on here except when it matters so don't take offence just kidding . 

No worries, brother. All in good fun. Keep it light and keep it moving!

I never get "offended" at forum posts. That's no way to live.

And I'll find humor even when it isn't really there

Ken

[OV-1D]

  It's always good to get up on the best side of the bed in the mornings isn't it . In case I didn't ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, welcome to the asylum there Ken . 

[Uncle_Lee]

I bought a new mini and at 3 steps it would hit a foot low and to the left.
The very end of the barrel looked like it was folded in at one spot.
$25 to the gunsmith to crown it and now it hits to point of aim (if I don't wiggle).

[nastruck]

Hey Goatpacker I would love to see a photo of your front sight. I have though many time bout taking a file to mine but I'm not sure what I wanted it to look like....

[kbuzbee]

  It's always good to get up on the best side of the bed in the mornings isn't it . In case I didn't ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, welcome to the asylum there Ken . 

It is.

Appreciate the welcome. Nice place to kick up your heels and sit a spell.

Ken

[Kentucky Kevin]

gOOD JOB ON ANALYZING AND CORRECTING THE PROBLEM.  went to zero the 4x scope on my MM yesterday, was doing good untill the last when I adjusted horizonta and verticle at the same time. was shooting fast fives at five when checking the target down range, and still able to fist group, but was only able to hit the golf ball at ten feet 2/5,need more range time

[Goatpacker]

Pics as promised! The 5 shot groups were done at 20 feet from the supported hands and the target is a 2 inch orange dot. First pic is group before crowning job. Second pic is after crowning job. Third pic is of sight mod. And Fourth pic is crowning job. Huge difference in groups! Before was 2 3/4 inch and after 1 inch.

[Goatpacker]

Sorry but keep in mind the top pic is rotated for some reason and grouping was actually right of target.

[cfsharry]

Nice work and nice outcome. Thanks for the info and pics.

[scbuxton]

Nice job on the crown goatpacker. Lapping compound can be had at NAPAstores.

[Goatpacker]

Here that guys??? You can get lapping compound at Napa auto stores!!! I ordered a pint online for $20!!! Prob only enought to do about 75,000 barrels though because it takes about 1/8 as much as you would put on your toothbrush to brush your teeth!!! Nice to know that it can be bought at a store!!! Thank you!!!!

[nastruck]

Thanks for the pictures Goatpacker. Great job!!!!