Sandy?s Soapbox for October

[josp]

I believe in personal choice. I believe in the choice I make to carry a gun to protect myself, and you if I should be in a position to do so.
I believe I had C19 before it was known about as I was quite sick, and that?s very rare for me, in Jan 2020. But, as I?m in good health, it passed. I did get the jab, mainly because of my wife who isn?t in the best of health, and my father who recently passed.
But not due to C19. No, he died of heart disease and failure at 91. How many Americans  die of that every year? Well, I can only tell you of my County in Pa. See, I work with the Coroner. We have a population of roughly 352,000 people, and lose about 3000 a year. Total C19 numbers so far? 476.
Oldest was 109, youngest 36, average 80. ALL had various serious medical conditions which may have been exacerbated by C19.
No one seems to care about the roughly 2500 other deaths each year.

You want the shot? Get it. You want to wear a mask, distance, or just stay home? Do so.
Personal choice. Your opinions of MY choices mean nothing to me at all. Walk a mile in another mans shoes before pushing your beliefs/agenda on them.

Bearcatter  and Grayelky, you have my condolences.

[RogueTS1]

Sandy didn't really get into the political side, but I have a major concern there.

Why is the government so damned desperate for everyone to get the shot? Using every scare tactic, bribes, threats to our jobs, even arrest. What is the hidden agenda? What is the truth?  I can think of a dozen possibilities, some pretty far-fetched, but still not to be put past the current smoke and mirror White House.

BINGO, BINGO, BINGO! My point exactly. Why is the government so fixated on everybody getting vaccinated? If people were dropping like flies as in "The Walking Dead" I could understand why but then again if that was happening the government would not need to lie, cheat and steal to get everybody vaccinated. They would be breaking down the Pharmacy/Doctor's doors to get it.

There has to be something up. Knowing our government and things it has done in the past, why would anybody trust them enough to do what they seem so damned set upon "everybody" doing? Every time I hear one of their public announcements, the first thing that comes to mind is many of them mentioning, "New World Order" and images of prisoners in Soviet prisons being told they have a visitor and to go get showered and cleaned up before their visitation.

"NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!"

[smokeless joe]

Found this article

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/north-american-arms-owner-apologizes-for-contempt-ridden-rant-against-the-unvaccinated/?fbclid=IwAR1FqFrcylpeet6wAMjgmbP2m4WOXK2cdZ5yoLbOgj2GZpqjcc2oRM2pu3I#

[adp3]

It is not rocket science figuring out why the government wants people vaccinated. The government?s responsibility as stated in the US Constitution is to "promote the General Welfare" of citizens. Over 724,000 Americans have died from COVID so far. Our worst total for flu deaths in the last ten years was only 52,000 in 2017-2018. COVID will continue to mutate and more people will die because of selfish, ignorant, naive, wimpy people unwilling to get a shot. This does not apply to anyone unable to be vaccinated due to extenuating medical issues. The vaccine works. It eliminates or at worst reduces risk of serious illness or death.

There is such a thing as the social contract. Being part of a nation requires that EVERYONE act for the greater good of society. It?s why we punish criminals who violate society?s laws. Go ahead. Refuse to get vaccinated. Join the ICU patients begging to be vaccinated on their death beds. Abrogate your responsibility. Pretend you?re still a good person and good American while you spread COVID, cause more mutations, and cause more people to die. You are absolutely free to deny science, common sense, and decency in this country that you claim to love yet refuse to protect by getting a simple vaccination.

ADP3

[Boisesteve]

I used to trust the medical establishment, the hospital was my employer.  Then, before I retired I saw from the inside, firsthand, as the hospital released news saying that it was being crushed by Covid and we had to cut the curve or some such slogan... while we were better than half empty! Plenty of federal Covid money coming in, though.
I have not trusted what the government tells us since the viet nam war.
Death numbers have not gone up year over year; I do not believe folks have just stopped dying of everything else so they can die of Covid. Total deaths is the only stat they cannot fudge. This whole thing stinks!
George Carlin said it best; do not trust what you are told by your government.

Adios muchachos.

[Texduk3]

I believe in personal choice. I believe in the choice I make to carry a gun to protect myself, and you if I should be in a position to do so.
I believe I had C19 before it was known about as I was quite sick, and that?s very rare for me, in Jan 2020. But, as I?m in good health, it passed. I did get the jab, mainly because of my wife who isn?t in the best of health, and my father who recently passed.
But not due to C19. No, he died of heart disease and failure at 91. How many Americans  die of that every year? Well, I can only tell you of my County in Pa. See, I work with the Coroner. We have a population of roughly 352,000 people, and lose about 3000 a year. Total C19 numbers so far? 476.
Oldest was 109, youngest 36, average 80. ALL had various serious medical conditions which may have been exacerbated by C19.
No one seems to care about the roughly 2500 other deaths each year.

You want the shot? Get it. You want to wear a mask, distance, or just stay home? Do so.
Personal choice. Your opinions of MY choices mean nothing to me at all. Walk a mile in another mans shoes before pushing your beliefs/agenda on them.

Bearcatter  and Grayelky, you have my condolences.

I also was very sick in Jan 2019, before it was a "Thing" and  did get well, on my own.
However.....
This past August, my son was sick on Aug 6,  test + for CV19. He is 27.
my wife started getting sick on Aug 8,
We went for tests on Aug 9,
Both of us tested + ,
I am 65 she is 62, she got well 2 weeks later.
I however, was A-symptomatic. Needed to inform my employer, 10 days off, and took care of the family. 
None of us have taken, or will be Vaxed. 
I just started reading this  thread, can't find Sandy's post but I wanted to relay our experiences,
for what its worth,
or not.
My Condolenses to Bearcatter and Grayelky,

[bearcatter]

I'm afraid adp3 sounds kinda like Sandy Junior, but that's his right. Ever heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

In the 1940s, a "study group" of men were given or already had syphillis, then some were given penicillin, some weren't. They ones that got placebos weren't told. Over 100 people were infected, some in the study, some spouses, some children. A large percentage died. Nobody knew the real truth until the 1970s.

The open air atomic tests out west in the 50s and 60s? Never mentioned the fallout blowing east could harm everyone it blew over. It wasn't admitted for over 30 years. And yes, cancer rates were higher in the fallout's path. Tens of thousands, maybe more, likely died early over the years. It blew over my part of Virginia.

Acceptable losses to benefit Science? That's just two of the many incidents known about. How many others haven't come to light?  Yessir, the government can really be trusted. Maybe in the 2040s everyone will know a new truth about the whole Covid time years before.

[Ozark75]

Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?

Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it and was considered medicine, later to find out that was not a good idea.

Asbestos used to be safe. Leaded gasoline used to be safe. Round Up weed killer used to be safe. And the list goes on and on.

I have questions about a medical treatment that has only been around for a year. What do they really know about the long term effects? How can we even be sure about the claims that it is safe right now? How are we to trust the same government that has lied and misled the people time and time again?

One role of the government is to promote (not force) the general welfare of the public. This is not their first role. Preserving liberty comes first. This little balancing act is the key to a free society vs a socialist/communist society. Blind faith in a government to decide what is best for me? Or liberty protected by a government that allows me to decide what is best for me? Hhmmm.... Slippery slope my friends.

To promote the general welfare? Make masks mandatory in public. I can take it off when I am home. But to force me to get a medical treatment with unknown long term effects? I can't take that off when I am home.

Now, what about all this hateful name calling? Seems to be comming from the pro vaccine camp. I wonder why? Take your covid shot and all the known/unknown risks associated with it. I will not. I will however wear my mask, social distance and wash my hands. You take your chances and I will take mine. But to call me ignorant, selfish, contemptable or any other name is just plain nonsense. All that does is reveal your true character.

[smokeless joe]

Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?

Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it and was considered medicine, later to find out that was not a good idea.

Asbestos used to be safe. Leaded gasoline used to be safe. Round Up weed killer used to be safe. And the list goes on and on.

I have questions about a medical treatment that has only been around for a year. What do they really know about the long term effects? How can we even be sure about the claims that it is safe right now? How are we to trust the same government that has lied and misled the people time and time again?

One role of the government is to promote (not force) the general welfare of the public. This is not their first role. Preserving liberty comes first. This little balancing act is the key to a free society vs a socialist/communist society. Blind faith in a government to decide what is best for me? Or liberty protected by a government that allows me to decide what is best for me? Hhmmm.... Slippery slope my friends.

To promote the general welfare? Make masks mandatory in public. I can take it off when I am home. But to force me to get a medical treatment with unknown long term effects? I can't take that off when I am home.

Now, what about all this hateful name calling? Seems to be comming from the pro vaccine camp. I wonder why? Take your covid shot and all the known/unknown risks associated with it. I will not. I will however wear my mask, social distance and wash my hands. You take your chances and I will take mine. But to call me ignorant, selfish, contemptable or any other name is just plain nonsense. All that does is reveal your true character.

Well said Ozark75

[Canoeal]

 "Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?"

Can anyone tell me how many more unvaccinated will die in the next 3,5 or ten years from COVID? That number is sure to be greater... Darwinian Logic says the fittest species survive and the weak die off. Don't be a Darwinian statistic.

I get my booster next week. Had to wait until after surgery, or I would have gotten it last week.

[Ozark75]

I wonder if there is a connection between big pharma getting hammered over the opioid crisis and big pharma releasing a covid treatment that is quickly becoming mandatory. 1 in 3 Americans know someone effected by the opioid crisis. Rather than a 1:3 ratio with opioids, lets go for a mandatory 1:1 ratio with the covid shot. Sounds like a good way to not only replace lost opioid revenue, but to also pay for all the opioid lawsuits. Oh, and by the way, big pharma is shielded from lawsuits in this one. Hhmmmm...something to ponder.

[Ozark75]

"Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?"

Can anyone tell me how many more unvaccinated will die in the next 3,5 or ten years from COVID?

If you have recieved the shot, probably won't be you. So, nothing for you to worry about.

Since I have not had the shot, could possibly be me. But that is something for me to worry about.

But, to address my primary concern, I will certainly not be dead or ill with side effects from the covid shot. Are you absolutely certain that you won't be?

[theysayimnotme]

I have to wonder if any Trumpsters will still be around for the 2024 election? It would be far better if it were the Democrats that were not getting the shots.

[Canoeal]

"Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?"

Can anyone tell me how many more unvaccinated will die in the next 3,5 or ten years from COVID?

If you have recieved the shot, probably won't be you. So, nothing for you to worry about.

Since I have not had the shot, could possibly be me. But that is something for me to worry about.

But, to address my primary concern, I will certainly not be dead or ill with side effects from the covid shot. Are you absolutely certain that you won't be?

I am reasonably confident no one is trying to kill me with a vaccine. I feel sorry for those who see a bogey man there.

[Canoeal]

" Why, then, is it becoming so popular to chastise those who choose not to be vaccinated?"

Because it is those unvaccinated, that keep the disease around, the numbers up and the rest of us from being allowed to get back to real, normal, life. It is the numbers, mostly from the unvaccinated, that keep restrictions on our businesses, travel, an getting rid of the school closings (causing one parent to have to deal, affecting incomes), keeping the elderly safe and all of you from living in fear. Seems reasonable enough, get vaccinated, end this pandemic, find other and better cures and let's have a life.

Those who refuse, frustrate us, as they give the impression they do not care about any of the above. We are all tired of living in a COVID world.

[grayelky]

Re-read adp3 and Conoeal posts. Both seem pro shot. Both are somewhat passionate in their expression of their beliefs. HOWEVER, notice how Canoeal is polite and almost respectful regarding the choice to not get the shot(s). Now compare how adp3 uses name calling and almost bullying tactics. Why do those who seem to lean towards the liberal side of life seem to have to resort to name calling and berating those who disagree with them? Of the 2 versions, which one would you be more likely to listen to his argument in favor of the shot? Too bad more people don?t realize, even in our modern, technology driven world, you can still catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[barrytheprof]

" Why, then, is it becoming so popular to chastise those who choose not to be vaccinated?"

Because it is those unvaccinated, that keep the disease around, the numbers up and the rest of us from being allowed to get back to real, normal, life. It is the numbers, mostly from the unvaccinated, that keep restrictions on our businesses, travel, an getting rid of the school closings (causing one parent to have to deal, affecting incomes), keeping the elderly safe and all of you from living in fear. Seems reasonable enough, get vaccinated, end this pandemic, find other and better cures and let's have a life.

Those who refuse, frustrate us, as they give the impression they do not care about any of the above. We are all tired of living in a COVID world.

Thank you Canoe Al. It seems to me you are stating the obvious, but I guess it's not so obvious to many.

What interests me about this thread is that a number of people here have stepped up, at some risk to themselves, to serve our country in the military or law enforcement. When we ask them to step up to stop the killing of hundreds of thousands of American lives by taking a shot, suddenly the risk to self has to be absolutely zero. We could have saved many thousands of lives and gotten our country back to normal long ago if everyone had stepped up and taken the shot.

Although Sandy lost it in his post, I feel his frustration. This is all so unnecessary. I'm glad he apologized for his tone. I think we should accept the apology and move on.

And . . . take the shot!

[LHB]

Let me start by saying that I think that the virus is real, and I  believe that some people have died from the virus.   I have had my two shots.

But, I question the scare tactics being used by the government or someone.   I got chastised on this forum a few months ago when I repeated that our county coroner stated in February that the government was lying about the number of deaths from covid.   This good democrat stated that there was a difference between someone dying from covid, and someone dying with covid, if you are killed in a head on traffic wreck, you may be positive, but you didn't die from covid.   Some of the members jumped on me for not believing that covid can kill.   I knew people who have died from covid.

The media and the internet now say that 700,000 people in the US have died from covid, and they must be telling the truth.   Yet I saw a report which talked about the deaths in the US in the last five years, and every year the number of deaths has increased from twenty-three to twenty-eight thousand every year, as the population has grown.   That time span included 2019 and 2020, and the total number of deaths did not increase by half a million in 2020.   Which set of figures is wrong?

[bleak_window]

Pandemic of the unvaccinated?  Since the CDC does not consider a person vaccinated until the 15th day after the 2nd jab, this means virtually ALL short-term side effects AND DEATHS following the jab are counted as UNVAXXED injuries and deaths.

Why won't the CDC publish meaningful data so we can make informed choices?  For instance, if I take my first jab today, what are the chances I'm dead in the next 2 weeks?  And how does that compare to the mortality rate if I don't take it? 

The established (pre-2020) science suggests that variants are produced in VACCINATED patients - especially if you have a non-sterilizing or "leaky" vaccine, which this certainly is.  There is no need for the virus to mutate in an unvaccinated carrier - that person has no defense and will develop immunity naturally or succumb to the disease.  Anyone vaccinated is already producing the toxic S1 protein themselves and their body should have developed immunity to the S1 spike.  But the virus is not the spike.  Delta variant evolved a different shaped spike that partially evaded the vaccine. 

In my own extended family, the score is several cases but 0 deaths from the virus.  The vaccine did not perform as well.  One gentleman in his 50s will never work again, a young man in his teens will never walk again, and a fellow in his 60s is dealing with debilitating pain.

As for Sandy, huge loss of respect.

[josp]

I think what causes people to disbelieve or be hesitant is the misinformation. All deaths suspicious in nature or due to an infectious disease must be reported to the Coroner by Pa law. In my County the Coroner says he has 476 deaths due to Covid. But the Pa Dept of Health lists 869?

Now one of them has to be wrong. Are doctors disregarding the law and not reporting these deaths to the Coroner, or is the State somehow adding numbers?

Oh, and coronavirus has been and will always be with us. It?s just the strain of the year 2019 that has caused this.

All of this you can research on your own.

[Ozark75]

"Can anyone tell me what the effects of the COVID shot will be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now?"

Can anyone tell me how many more unvaccinated will die in the next 3,5 or ten years from COVID?

If you have recieved the shot, probably won't be you. So, nothing for you to worry about.

Since I have not had the shot, could possibly be me. But that is something for me to worry about.

But, to address my primary concern, I will certainly not be dead or ill with side effects from the covid shot. Are you absolutely certain that you won't be?

I am reasonably confident no one is trying to kill me with a vaccine. I feel sorry for those who see a bogey man there.

I am reasonably confident no one is trying to kill me with the covid shot either. So, we do agree on that point.

But, I am reasonably confident we do not know what the future side effects may or may not be. Will I develop a severe illness or disability? Will this cause an increased risk of birth defects in children whose parents received the shot? No one can say with certainty what will happen after 10 years when the shot has only been around 1 year.

I should have the right to decide for my self how I want to permanently alter my biology. I'm on board with mask mandates, but not medical treatment mandates.

And to clarify, for those who may believe the shot is a magical guaranteed cure. Even if 100% of the worlds population receives the shot, COVID will still exist. People will still become infected. People will still spread it. People will still get ill. People will still die. Based on the current data (if they are even being honest), illnesses will be less severe and death will be less common. But, can we guarantee that the current data is accurate? Can we guarantee COVID will not adapt/mutate and become even more dangerous?. We do not know.

[Canoeal]

"Even if 100% of the worlds population receives the shot, COVID will still exist. People will still become infected. People will still spread it. People will still get ill. People will still die."

That is true for sure. We are not going to totally eliminate COVID. People die from various diseases including the flu, every year. By vaccinating, we are just trying to get the numbers down so it is no more deadly and disruptive as any other illness. We do not shut down life for the flu, or chicken pox or other health issues (and we do get vaccinated), We should be able to have COVID present and no more of a danger, that we can go back to living our lives.

[Ozark75]

I guess the point I am trying to get across is the government does not have the right or authority to force me to alter my biology for any reason. Especially with a procedure that noone knows the long term effects of.

I understand the pros/cons of trying to contain the COVID crisis. I understand the risks associated with COVID. I understand what is going on with our economy.

I do not understand why the government feels they have the right to force me to accept a medical treatment. I do not understand why more Americans will not stand up and say "no. You will not force me to take a shot with unknown consequences/side effects." Blindly trusting and bowing to the government is not for me. This is America. Not a commie/nazi/socialist country. We need to stop accepting commie/nazi/socialist policies.

I want this COVID crisis to go away. I want people to be safe and healthy, and that is why I am ok with mask mandates.

[linux_author]

Sandy can say whatever he wants - he didn't need to apologize to me...

i am still wandering in a maze of misinformation and lack of definitive information from the CDC, FDA, and even state and local authorities... who is the official spokesperson from Club Fed? certainly not Fauci?

where is the definitive FAQ, brochure, info on the Wuhan Red Death?
and where did it come from?

i'm now on my third Pfizer shot and have never felt any symptoms or illness since this nonsense began (swim 5-6 miles a week every morning; A1C down from 9.3 to 5.9!)

what i want to know is when can i stop wearing these *#%%! face diapers?!

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

[bearcatter]

Most sensible thing I've heard about masks is if you can smell through them they don't work. If an odor gets through, how do they stop anything else? I still wear one to avoid any confrontations.

[Twainman]

Ozark 75 wrote: "This is America. Not a commie/nazi/socialist country. We need to stop accepting commie/nazi/socialist policies.
I want this COVID crisis to go away. I want people to be safe and healthy, and that is why I am ok with mask mandates."

From this I get that, on the one hand, we need to resist the government telling us free people how we should behave, while at the same time we should submit to the government telling us how to behave.  This seems contradictory.

We live in an age where nearly any of us can access literally all the knowledge that has been accumulated by mankind in mere moments through the use of our computers and smart phones.  Everything that is know about the world is actually available at our fingertips.

Here is my challenge to anyone interested:  I learned in High School biology that viruses are among the very tiniest of particles, so tiny that they cannot be filtered out of the air by ordinary cloth or paper masks, unlike bacteria.  People working with viruses have to take extraordinary precautions to avoid exposing themselves and risking infection.  Eschewing politics for the moment, I suggest that anyone who believes that mask mandates are helpful or not, take a few minutes to do some basic research on their own, rather than take the word of others who may or may not have ulterior motives.  Take a few moments and exercise your fingertips to look up scientific studies of mask effectiveness for this or any other virus.  I will not provide links, because I don't want you to take the word of others such as myself who may have an ulterior motive.   I have found, and I am confident that you can find, documented scientific information of controlled studies that have been done on this very topic.  My research (all of about 15 minutes) shows dozens of studies indicating that masks are not effective in reducing spread of Covid, several that indicate that constant masking may in fact be harmful, and zero (0) studies showing that masks reduce the spread.

Get the facts and come to your own conclusions.  Opinion means nothing; the virus exists and acts independent of your, or anyone's opinion.

The information is out there within easy reach.  Inform yourself with actual facts and then see what your opinion is after that.  My opinion does not count in any case.

Twainman

p.s. the Constitution is right out there at your fingertips, too.  Read it and don't let anyone obscure the facts here, either.

[Ozark75]

@twainman. Just to clarify, I am staunchly Libertarian. I do not like the govt telling me what to do at all. But, I do accept that a limited role of govt is to protect the masses. I can play ball, and follow a mask mandate, as I can remove my mask at home. I cannot play ball by allowing the govt to force me to take a shot that I cannot remove when I get home.

While I'm not sold on masks, I do believe they have some slight effectiveness. Not much, but some. So I will compromise and go with the mask.

[Twainman]

So you're not sold on masks, but you are convinced that everyone should be required to wear one on pain of criminal penalties (which is what mandates are).  Evidently you do not care to find out.  I'm out of the discussion.

[Ozark75]

That spiraled out of control quickly Twainman. I said I'm not sold on them, but they may have some effectiveness. Thats why I would accept them as a compromise. I never said anything about being convinced everyone should be required to wear one. And who said a mandate would require criminal penalties rather than civil penalties? And where is the evidence that I do not care to find out?

You made three statements about my post, and all three are incorrect. Good call on your part to be out of the discussion.

[bearcatter]

Can I recommend that we all consider dropping this virus / mask / government argument?

We're going around in circles, beating a dead horse. Stepping on frayed nerves, causing fights we would have never started a few months back. Let's take a break.

[Twainman]

Can I recommend that we all consider dropping this virus / mask / government argument?

We're going around in circles, beating a dead horse. Stepping on frayed nerves, causing fights we would have never started a few months back. Let's take a break.

hat spiraled out of control quickly Twainman. I said I'm not sold on them, but they may have some effectiveness. Thats why I would accept them as a compromise. I never said anything about being convinced everyone should be required to wear one. And who said a mandate would require criminal penalties rather than civil penalties? And where is the evidence that I do not care to find out?

You made three statements about my post, and all three are incorrect. Good call on your part to be out of the discussion.

The evidence that you did not care to find out is in your second sentence here: you are not sold on them but they may have some effectiveness.  A mandate, as used in this discussion, means everyone should be required to wear one (mask) on pain of (civil or criminal) penalties.  This does not seem very libertarianish to me.  It would make as much sense to require a necklace of garlic.  We all have the same rights in this country,  A person saying anyone should be required to take some action necessarily includes himself.  If he does not, then he is a hypocrite.

I think that there is a political thread elsewhere on this forum, and I agree that further discussion and civil discourse should be moved there.
Now I'm out. Really.  Apologies for any toe-stepping.

[Canoeal]

If you are of a certain age you have been told to get shots, and oral vaccinations during your life. Your parents did not oppose them. You were told when to go and get your polio vaccine your rubella vaccine, and the shots you needed to go to school. Heck some of them were given to you at school by the school nurse no parent needed.
Now you think you have a choice, because you say freedom of choice is your right. But read the Bill of Rights and you will find it nowhere. It was discussed argued as being basic, but in the end it was not included. Why? Because if you had freedom of choice, it was argued, you could choose not to obey the law, it would in fact lead to chaos. So your rights end when they violate the law, cause harm to others or risk a catastrophe. It was the time when individuals understood social and societal responsibility (which some have yet to learn, and others have conveniently forgotten). I wait for the day one of you who has refused the shots, is a carrier to someone you love who gets ill and dies. I want to see how you explain your rights then. Yes you can be a carrier if you have had the shots, but it is stated that is less likely. JMHO

Stay safe, and if no shots please stay home; for your own sake.

[Ozark75]

Perhaps this thread should be closed. Too much passion on opposing sides.

[bleak_window]

One thing we should all question is, if the leaders really want to keep us safe, so much that they are willing to destroy careers and families, why are some groups exempt?  Mandates do not apply to Congress, the White House, the US Postal Service, or the 2+ million people who illegally crossed the border this year.  Why not? 

[RogueTS1]

If I want a shot, I will get it.
If I don't want the shot, I won't.
If you have had your shots, then you cannot get it from me.
If you can get it from me, then the shots don't work.
If the shots don't work, why get them?

A vaccine is not an antidote. Getting vaccinated does not kill the virus. It helps your body develop antibodies that will fight off and kill the virus "in" your body. This does not apply to "on" your body. One can be free from infection and still spread the virus much the same as "Chicken Pox" can be spread by those that have already had it and are immune, for the most part, to further infection. When will those whom are so pro-vaccine stop with the idea that those that refuse to be vaccinated are no more the cause of spreading the virus than those that have chosen to take said vaccine? This thing is a virus. It is here to stay. It is not going anywhere, just as is influenza.

If one wishes to take the vaccine then take the vaccine. If one does not then do not. Just please stop with all the name calling and false denigration from those that want the vaccine towards their fellow man who decides against it.