Howdy Canoeal,

Rather than "messing with my knuckles," the trigger on my Black Widow is so small that it touches nothing but the fleshy pad on the last joint of my index finger.

If I'm careful enough with my hold on the little gun to insure that that nothing moves on the trigger squeeze except the last joint of that digit, the bullets tend to go where they should. 

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn -- 

Hello Tank,

I share your desire to shoot better with the NAA Black Widow.  The little revolver is capable of MUCH better accuracy than most people think.  The first 5 shots I put through mine were fired at a bullseye target about 12 to 15 yards away, and the slugs printed about a 3-inch group centered on the bull.

Other than the shooting fundamentals of precise sight alignment, breath control, and trigger squeeze, I've found the most important ingredient to me for consistent accuracy is find a way to hold the tiny gun so that the trigger squeeze doesn't result in movement of the revolver in the hand.  Because the gun is so small, that's difficult, but not impossible to achieve.

The Black Widow is one of the few NAA designs that comes with really decent grips and sights.  The somewhat chubby rubber grip provides plenty of hand-purchase to firmly hold the gun, and the 3-dot sights that come standard on the piece are some of the best I've seen on little pocket-pistols.  The sights are also adjustable for windage, a quality I consider important, and one not usually found on such small handguns.

For practice, I remove the cylinder from the revolver and repeatedly "dry fire" it while trying to keep precise sight-alignment with a dot on the bright livingroom wall.  Any visible movement of the sights at all during the moment of trigger release is easy to spot with such a drill.  And, be assured that the tiniest bit of observable movement will greatly enlarge the size of your groups on target.

One little trick I've learned is to allow my left thumbnail to grow a little long, and to "hook" that nail over the left bottom edge of the cylinder window in the handgun frame.  I'm right-handed and -- with a two-hand hold on the revolver -- my stiff left thumb and nail allow me to place just enough "rightward" pressure on the gun to overcome my natural tendency to pull the pistol down and to the left as the trigger breaks.

As I said, practicing trigger-squeeze and sight-alignment, while staying tightly focused on an aiming dot on a wall, will allow you to experiment with pistol-holding technique until you develop the ability to "break the shot" without the slightest disturbance of the sights on the dot.  That's the theory, at least. 

My own practice has not led to perfection, but I have been able to consistently hold standing, two-handed groups of under 6-inches at 25 yards.  That's very, very close to "head-shot" accuracy from a tiny little "belly gun" that many people believe is incapable of accuracy beyond "card-table" distance.

With the windage-adjustable sights on my Black Widow, the pistol will group precisely on point-of-hold at 15 yards with .22 Long Rifle 40-grain solid bullets from CCI Mini-Mag and Remington Thunderbolt ammo. 

With .22 Magnum ammo, my gun groups about 3 1/2-inches high at 15 yards, and there is no elevation adjustment available.  Since I also use my Black Widow for close-range small game shooting and plinking, I want it to shoot precisely to point-of-aim at 12 to 15 yards;  this means my little beauty almost always sports her .22 Long Rifle cylinder. 

Anyway, Tank, have fun getting better with your Black Widow.  I know she'll impress you.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

CanoeAl,

Beautiful work. Your grips are an inspiration.

Prior to your latest job, I hadn't really given much thought to wood lamination in the making of grips.  The laminating process, though, really adds almost limitless possibilities.  It might also provide a decent "resting place" for smaller pieces of really nice wood that are just too pretty to throw away.

Be sure and add photos when your finally get the finished wood on your new revolver.  And congrats on some truly elegant grips.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn -- 

Keep her goin', Al. Can't wait to see them on the revolver.

By the way, how did you work out the process to keep the lamination strips lined up on both sides of the grip?  My guess is you sliced your laminated blank down the middle to come up right and left sides, but I guess that's kind of obvious.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Gents,

These little farts are so cute, I don't think I'll be able to resist getting one. 

I'll bet, though, the tiny terrors are incredibly difficult to shoot accurately.  Many people might think it's the miniscule sight-radius that would make accuracy hard to obtain, but I think an even bigger problem would be trying to find a way to hold them so as to allow the trigger to "break" with zero movement of the revolver in the hand.

Difficult as accuracy might be to obtain in actual shooting, I'll also bet the little gats are capable of decent "inherent accuracy."  And if, with diligent practice, a guy could keep them on a tin can at 7 to 10 yards, I think they'd make for some great fun as a tiny "plinker."

I'm wondering if any forum members have ever "wrung out" the little gems in an attempt to see just how accurate they can be shot.  If so, please share the results.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

CanoeAl,

I'll follow your progress on those grips with great interest.  The dark wood (walnut?), laminated with the light-colored strips (maple?), should make for a "knock-out" pattern on an NAA revolver.

Keep the photographs coming as you progress on the grips.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Thanks Rick and Al.

I think I now understand what's going on with the sights. 

I may give the Marble fully-adjustable version a try.  Maybe, if I could substitute some longer screws, I could get the danged thing to tighten down and stay put.

On the other hand, my Black Widow currently shoots precisely to point-of-aim at 12 yards with its' Long Rifle cylinder.  So, maybe, I'll call it "good" and leave things alone.

With the .22 Magnum cylinder, my groups print about 3 inches high at 12 yards, but I shoot the .22 Magnum cartridge only rarely.  Certainly, the easiest solution is to simply "use less front sight" when shooting the magnum cylinder.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Quote from: Canoeal on November-24-19 17:11
No, that is an 'Old style' adjustable sight.

So, Canoeal,

You state that's an "old style" adjustable rear sight.  Am I to infer from your comment that the old style fully-adjustable sight is no longer available from NAA?

Also, was it the "old style" fully-adjustable sight that gave you the trouble in maintaining "zero" on your Black Widow?

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

So, Rick,

Where's the range report on your pretty, new "long leg"?

Can't wait; need it now.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Hey Rick,

I noticed that the rear sight of the Black Widow on top of the stack in your photograph appears to be slightly different from the rear sights on the two Widows below it.

Could it be that the sights on the upper revolver are the "mythical" fully-adjustable sights that I've heard NAA offers as an option for the Black Widow?  I've heard of such sights, but have had a hard time tracking down specific information on them.

Are they actually "fully-adjustable," meaning up and down, right and left?  If so, how well do they function?

I know the NAA Mini-Master has fully-adjustable sights, but they appear very "bulky" and stick up very high above the revolver's top-strap.  I've heard, but have been unable to confirm,
that NAA offers a set of somewhat smaller, yet still fully-adjustable sights, and those are what I'm seeking for my Black Widow.

So, again, are those the hard-to-find smaller, yet fully-adjustable sights sitting on the Black Widow at the top of your photo stack?

Please say, "yes," and tell me more.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

If it is fake, he sure did a cute job making it, even going so far as to make sure that many of his shots barely nicked the target -- all along the extreme right edge of the silhouette.

I've read members of this forum speak of repeatedly placing all five from their Black Widow on a pie plate at 50 yards, and that's fairly close to the level of shooting displayed on the video.

Heck, gents, my Black Widow -- guided by 70-year-old eyes -- will regularly keep all five on pie plate at 25 yards, and I've posted photos of the targets.

It's not difficult for this old man to believe there are folks around who can shoot twice as straight as he does.

So, maybe the video is fake, and maybe it ain't.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --


 

Wumbey,

You might be right. But it looks real to me.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Hey OV-1D,

As consistent as the shooter is, it's my guess his BW is shooting about 3 1/2 inches to the right at 100 yards.  That's the equivalent of about 3/4-inch at 25 yards, and very few of us can shoot well enough for that small discrepancy to matter or even be detected. 

I doubt he has any trigger-control problem at all.  If he did, his groups would be larger and placed with less regularity on the same place  on the target. 

The incredible thing is, he's shooting 6- to 8-inch groups at 100 yards.  And, most of that dispersion is vertical, possibly due to minutely more or less front sight showing in his sight picture from shot-to-shot.

But geez...whatever the guy's doing wrong, it sure ain't much.  If only I could shoot that poorly.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

I agree, Grayelky,

He'd be easier to watch if he wasn't quite so "hyper," and the video would be more enjoyable without the beginning commercial, but the man sure can shoot.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Gents,

I just ran across the accompanying video, and thought the incredible shooting displayed on it would be of interest.

To watch, click here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJm6ulI9TB0

While I can't vouch for the authenticity of the video, it sure looks to me like the shooter is actually doing what he appears to be doing  -- pulling off some really fine shooting with an NAA Black Widow.

If you carefully watch the guy's form, you'll see virtually no movement of the tiny revolver in his hand at time of "trigger-break," an absolutely essential skill to drawing accuracy out of tiny handguns.  It's not a particularly easy skill to develop, but this guy seems to have succeeded.

My only criticism of his form is the placement of his left thumb as he grips the Black Widow.  The placement causes no harm in shooting the BW, but might result in amputation of half a thumb were he shooting a semi-auto pistol.

In my mind, the guy's incredibly accurate shooting more than makes up for what some might consider an "overly enthusiastic" camera presence.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Thanks, Uncle Lee.

I've found that the less attention is paid to me, the less criticism I receive.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn -- 

Dang me if I don't agree with "KEN AZ" and "Uncle Lee."

Their 4" and 6" Mini-Masters sure look like fine, lightweight trail/kit guns, if a belt holster is the preferred means of carry.

Neither revolver really qualifies as a "pocket gun,"  but that doesn't matter a bit if you're carrying in a belt holster.

Happy trails, and straight shootin',

-- Cary Gunn --

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the info on the Marble Company after-market sight for the Black Widow.  I was unaware such a sight existed, and I'll certainly check it out.  If it's adjustable for BOTH windage and elevation, and, if it actually "holds" its settings, it's pretty much what I'm after.

The Marble sight sits somewhat higher on the top-strap than does the issue BW sight, but it's still significantly more compact than the very high and seemingly snag-prone issue sight of the Mini-Master revolver.

I also agree with you that NAA's little revolvers may be unlikely to reliably produce 3-inch groups at 25 yards.  They are, however, certainly capable of holding 3-inches at 10 to 15 yards, which is the distance I mentioned in my earlier post.

In my countryside tromps, I sometimes stumble onto small game at ranges under 15 yards.  It is those opportunities I'd like to take advantage of with the little handgun in my jean's pocket.  The Black Widow will allow me to do that, if I can place its groups "to the sights."

And, yes, certainly there are a host of other guns better-suited for purely small-game hunting, but none of them "pack" with the incredible "disappearing ease" of the little NAA's.

My Black Widow is the only gun I own that's likely to be always with me when occasional "targets of opportunity" appear.

And, here's a question for "Canoeal," who mentioned he once had a fully-adjustable sight on his BW, but replaced it because it wouldn't reliably hold its "zero."  What was the brand of that faulty sight, Al? Was it the Marble Company sight of which Rick speaks?

Let me know about the sights, 'cause I'm still trying to "perfect" my sweet, little Black Widow.

Happy trails, again,

-- Cary Gunn --

The NAA revolver line is certainly purchased by the bulk of us for nothing more than "up close and personal," as forum member "theysayimnotme" has stated.

But the little guns are capable of so much more than that, if the owner wishes to put in the time and practice needed to realize the tiny guns' accuracy potential.

Surely, many people think of the Black Widow as a barely capable "belly gun" at card-table distances.  And, if that's all you want to use it for, fine.  You're wrong, though, if you believe the little revolver is not useful for much, much more than that.

I know my Black Widow is capable of two-hand, standing, 25-yard, five-shot bullet groups of less than 6 inches.  I've filed target photos on this forum that show that capability.

In other words, my Black Widow will group in the head of a standard defense silhouette at 25 yards, and will produce "rabbit head" sized groups at half that distance.  And, I know there are people on this forum who shoot the little guns better than I do.

To take full advantage of that accuracy potential, fully adjustable sights are needed to place groups at point-of-aim. A revolver that places its groups 3 inches the side and 5 inches below a bullseye is not an "accurate" gun, even if it repeatedly groups its bullets in a 2-inch circle. It must be capable of placing its groups at point-of-aim.

That's why I'd like to see more the NAA revolvers fitted with fully adjustable sights.  That way, if a guy wants an ultra-lite, immanently pocketable trail companion to pot sitting rabbits and squirrels at 15 yards or so, he can have it -- if only the guns were fitted with decent sights.

I'd certainly pay extra for guns so equipped. 

Those who look at the NAA line as nothing more than "last-ditch, card-table defenders" could still purchase the fixed-sighted versions of the revolvers and live happily ever after.

We could easily have it both ways, and nobody would lose.  And NAA, as a company, could broaden their products' appeal, and sell more stuff.

At least, that's the way I view it.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Sure, OV1D, but you can also die from botulism due to poorly cooked vegetables.

Or, from tetanus due to a thorn puncture.

Or, from a skin infection contracted by hugging a poison ivy-cloaked tree.

So, I'll continue to dine on delicious cottontails and pray for the best.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Howdy LHB,

My hat is off to your friend, Jack.   May he -- and all those with like "grit" -- flourish.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Gents,

I wonder how many forum members join me in the belief that the NAA company is missing a market-niche opportunity in not providing small, fully-adjustable sights for it's "mid-sized" revolvers.

The 1 5/8-inch barreled Mini-revolver, the 2-inch Black Widow, and the 2 1/2-inch Sheriff and Ranger II are all capable of producing "rabbit-head" sized groups at ranges of 10 yards and greater.  Thus, they would all qualify as useful ultra-lite trails guns, if only the tight groups they are capable of producing could be placed precisely at point-of-aim.

Of the four revolvers mentioned above, only the Black Widow has adjustable sights, and those sights are adjustable only for windage.  To be truly useful as a pocketable trail/kit gun, sight elevation adjustment is also needed. 

While the Mini-Master revolver has fully adjustable sights, I believe that gun's 4-inch barrel and high-sitting, snag-prone sights take it out the convenient "pocket-gun" category.

I'd like to see smaller, yet fully-adjustable sights available on NAA's smaller "mid-sized" revolver offerings.

Am I alone in that wish?

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

p.s. Yes, I realize the silliness of referring to any of NAA's tiny products as "mid-sized."  I use the term only subjectively, in relation to NAA's overall revolver line.

My apologies, SandPike and Canoeal,

I misread the original post and thought SandPike wished to adjust his REAR sight to move bullet impact to the right.  In that case, as I stated above, movement of the rear sight would be to the right. 

Actually, though, he wished to adjust his FRONT sight.  In that case, movement of bullet impact to the right would come from movement of the front sight to the left.

Originally, only I was confused.  Now, I suppose I've confused everybody.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Rick,

That's a truly elegant revolver.  I -- as others on the forum have already expressed -- look forward to a range report soon.

I'll bet that hog-leg's much longer than usual sight-radius is a great help in producing tight shot groups. Let's just hope the revolver "shoots to the sights."

Happy trails, and congrats on a great purchase,

-- Cary Gunn --

Hi Canoeal,

Does your Charter revolver have a problem?  From the number of "keyhole" bullet strikes on that target, I wonder if your bullets are tumbling?

Have the Charter's targets always looked like that?

I just wonder what's going on.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Howdy jdiddy,

If by "trail gun" you're meaning a conveniently packable handgun for a day's hike in the timber, with it's use primarily as a snake-killer, plinker and occasional bunny- or squirrel-buster, I'd nominate the Black Widow with a Long Rifle cylinder. 

With my BW, I'm able to hold 5-shot groups of 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 12 to 15 yards.  Thus, I consider the tiny revolver a legitimate close-range "skillet filler," as I can maintain "rabbit head" accuracy at the afore-mentioned distance.  The BW's semi-adjustable sights (adjustable for windage, but not elevation) are an advantage here that most of the other mini-revolvers lack.

With CCI, most Winchester and most Remington Long Rifle ammo, my BW has allowed me to drift-adjust windage to place my shot groups dead-on at 12 yards.  Luckily, elevation with LR ammo has been spot-on,  a fortunate occurrence since the sights are not elevation-adjustable.

Unfortunately, my BW's .22 Magnum cylinder places it's groups a couple inches higher than point-of-aim, and there's no way to correct for that. I restrict my magnum cylinder to occasional personal-protection carry, which would be a very close-range affair where a couple inches difference would be likely meaningless.

Were decent adjustable sights available on the longer-barreled "Sheriff" or "Earl" mini-revolvers, they might be my ultimate choice for an extremely lightweight trail gun .  Sadly, their sights are wholly non-adjustable. Thus, getting them to place their groups precisely to point-of-aim at any particular distance would strictly be a "luck-of-the-draw" thing.

Of course, the Mini Master, with its' fully adjustable sights would be a good consideration, but its' increased size and bulk mean, at least for me, that it's no longer a true "pocket gun."  For belt-holster carry, though, it certainly merits consideration. 

Something like the "old-school"  Smith and Wesson Mod. 34  Kit Gun with 4-inch barrel would be even better for belt carry, if the slightly increased weight and bulk could be tolerated.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Dang me, gents,

I'm ready for some fried squirrel, too, along with mashed potatoes and squirrel gravy.  My mom, I believe, cooked the best squirrel-and-gravy known to man. 

And, she was a pretty fair hand with a skillet-full of cottontail rabbit.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Wow OV-1D,

I'm really impressed with your home-made petrified wood grips. They look fantastic.

Am I correct in thinking that stuff is actually a form of rock?  If so, how do you cut and shape it?  I'm guessing lapidary saws and lots of elbow grease.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Dang me, Gripen,

That's a cute little revolver.  How long is the barrel?  It looks to be 2 inches, if not a little more.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

I'm not sure if the Pug is available with both cylinders or not, but, if not, it should be.

The ability to shoot the Long Rifle cartridge means a lot to me in terms of highly affordable practice ammo.  These little revolvers usually require a lot of practice to gain real proficiency, and Long Rifle rounds are a lot cheaper, and usually easier to find, than .22 Rem. Magnum. 

That said, I bought my Black Widow new with only one cylinder.

At the time, the BW's were hard to find.  They were on "factory allocation" everywhere I looked, and the only one I could find available, either in local gunshops or on the Internet, was at Davidson's Gallery of Guns.  And the Davidson BW had only the LR cylinder. I happily bought it with just the one wheel, and later sent it back to NAA to have a magnum cylinder fitted.

It wasn't the most convenient way to get a convertible revolver, but it was -- at the time -- the only way to get my hands on a Black Widow. 

The Long Rifle cylinder-only purchase allowed me to see for myself how amazingly accurate and how much fun the little BW could be.  And, eventually, I cured the shortfall by having the .22 Magnum cylinder factory-fitted.

Happy trails and straight shooin',

-- Cary Gunn--

Heyjoe,

God forbid I'm ever in a gunfight with my Kahrs, but -- if am, and if I need a second magazine full --  all I'd have to do would be to drop the old magazine, insert a new one, and trip the slide-stop lever. 

What could be easier, or faster? 

Sure, in "the heat of the moment" I could foul-up the reload, but, if that happened, it would be due to a lack of practice and familiarity with my carry piece. 

Give me a Kahr and I'll be happy.  I love them because they are significantly smaller than almost any other pistol in the respective caliber-classes (meaning they are HIGHLY pocketable and, thus, more likely to be in my pocket when needed); and they are very reliable, accurate and easy to shoot straight.

Happy trails, again,

-- Cary Gunn --

Howdy Canoeal,

I like the grips on both your revolvers.  Did you make the Charter Pathfinder grips, too?

Also, how accurate is the Charter Arms revolver?

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn -- 

Anybody shot one of these yet?

If accurate and reliable, it'd make a nice trail gun/plinker.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

I wonder how the weird revolver stacks up size-wise with other pocket pieces?

Also, anybody know how accurate it is, and what kind of "spread" one can expect from the two slugs?

It's an interesting concept, but the devil may be in the details.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Hey OV,

Please quit bad-mouthing Kahr.  I love 'em. They make, I believe, two of the best pocket pistols the world has ever seen (the CW380 and CM9).

If Kahr pistols have an inherent problem, it's that some users fail to read and follow the instructions in the company's owner's manuals.  Hand-racking the pistols' slides to chamber a round will virtually always produce a FTF.

As per company instructions, the first round MUST be chambered by locking the slide to the rear with the slide-stop, then tripping the slide-stop lever to allow the slide to slam forward as it strips the first round from the magazine.  Hand-racking, or easing the slide closed to gently chamber a round, will inevitably result in a failure-to-feed, leaving the round sticking slightly out of the chamber and pistol slightly out-of-battery.

But, follow Kahr's instructions by chambering the first round using the slide-stop lever, and the pistols will function perfectly.  The quirkiness, as I understand it, is due to the design elements Kahr used to produce some of the smallest pistols in respective caliber-classes.

Sorry for the rant, OV.  It's just that I love my little Kahrs with the same passion I lavish on my tiny Black Widow.

Happy trails, and hope you don't take offense,

-- Cary Gunn --